I don’t believe it’s true to be honest, having witnessed first hand an ACO lying. If it is true, then the seizure is justified, albeit poorly done. If it’s not, I hope PP comes out of this as unscathed as possible.
I hate to post on this thread, but…
I noticed the neighbor didn’t hesitate to trespass to get on camera for the local news. She was there sticking her hands through the fence, when she obviously knew nothing about horses. If one of the horses had bitten or kicked her at that point, then what?
The ACO may have had a legitimate legal reason to be on the property to investigate. The neighbor, not so much.
Edited to say: Add me to the list of people who have been stood up by a pet-sitter. Two different people in the space of 10-12 years have pulled a no show. Both were people I had known for years, and who had done the job for me in the past without a problem. Needless to say, I was furious.
In my case, I was only gone overnight, and my dogs had plenty of water, and a dog door into a fenced yard, so it wasn’t a tragedy. But people can let you down unexpectedly, no question.
Were I prone to conspiracy theories, I would say that the sort of information they are collecting and publicizing could be very useful to governments, including our own AND Russia’s. We’ve recently had a Russian spy case, remember? Involving Russian immigrants? Running a search engine is one thing; comprehensive spying on people’s lives is quite another. I’m speculating on possible other motives.
Perhaps, having grown up in Russia or with Russian culture, an immigrant might not have quite the same sensitivity to privacy issues that most Western democracies have developed over the centuries.
This is OT, so back to the topic.
I’d very much like your opinion on the differences between the two cases, because I see a lot similarity.
[QUOTE=Calico;5155396]
What? What in the ever lovin’ hell makes you wonder about Russian immigrants - selling info. to advertisers? No one of any other nationality does that, no sirree. As a Russian immigrant, Go To Hell, pronto. Xenophobia motivates me, if you even care what motivates to “do what they do” since I am one of “them.”
And if you can’t see the differences between the Murder Hollow case and this one, then you are truly hopeless, irrelevant, and ignorant.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=cholmberg;5155491]
I’m still waiting for those who think she’s been ‘hard done by’ to say what they think A/C should have done and what their options were once the notice went unanswered. . … and no just watering and feeding the horses isn’t an option, they aren’t allowed.[/QUOTE]
ACO may or may not have some sort of ax to grind, who knows. Nobody know what the relationship is except the involved parties.
We don’t know if ACO was physically talking to PP or not. Some ACO’s work with equine groups (rescues, clubs, etc) that are willing to lend a hand to help distressed animal owners. Some ACO’s do nothing more than leave notes. Most are in between.
[QUOTE=mvp;5154972]
I don’t hang out on Catchride. You can tell because you don’t see my user name there. I don’t traffic in alters. What you see is what you get.
But the link to that BB someone posted here let me peer into that community a bit. Too rough for my taste.
So here’s my question for you FrenchFry: What was the point of your original COTH thread and does it differ in intention from the one implied by your post on Catchride? I know we all get to behave differently with different identities and in different contexts, but I would not have predicted any “I’m going to out a BB poster for what she is” from what I remember reading in your posts on COTH. Have I completely misunderstood?
Yeah, and for those of you explaining that the AC would have exposed itself to litigation by filling water tanks, or the farm sitter is the one who ought to expect a subpoena. Are you kidding me? People don’t sue each other at the drop of a hat. It’s an expensive PITA where even the “winners” pay a steep price. Is there any reason to think that a bunch of people up in a modest-looking county in Maine have the money to make lawsuits happen or even a worthwhile pursuit? I think of lawsuits as the absolute last resort for working out problems, not the first one.
If I’m typical, it makes no sense to think that “hey, with a enough lawyers (and money) all will be made right because the truth will come out.” One must be able to afford that pursuit of truth or a restored reputation.
Which raise another point. If it turns out that this is a misunderstanding or a neighborly feud gone wild, what’s the plan here for making apologies to pintopiaffe or making her continue to feel welcome as she would then clearly deserve? The people in the first few pages who said “Please wait for the facts” or at least pintopiaffe to return had it right. But then-- in the absence of facts and a response by pintopiaffe, the speculation machine continued on its way.[/QUOTE]
Don’t kill the messenger, Xerxes, this was in a newspaper which is in an early link. Others would have found out later and posted. And I am told by PMs (NOT from frenchfry) that PP posted for years, long before the collapse of the economy, on thehorsecommunity and ultimatedressage forums as gooberpony and tbf? I don’t know, and I’m not going to look. But I am told by PMs that she told her tales of not having $ for vets and farriers and all on other boards (maybe also catchride and the run in shed? ) so she’s put her life out there for all to see.
I feel sorry for PP yes, I’d give her money for food, I do that to people who stand on street corners. But the issue on this HORSE board is were the horses taken care of for all this time? It is not the responsiblity of our neighbors or of anyone else but us to see that we take care of our own aninals, or sell them or give them away or euth them. I do not follow PP on this forum because I have real issues with breeders, and had them long before this economical disaster in the good old USA. I want there to be waiting lists for each dog and cat and horse that is sitting in a pound or starving on the streets or in a pasture.
So I would not blame the neighbors, or aninal control, or anyone but the person who left her horses there. If all the reports of others (and I’ve not read the countdown to weg thread) are true, PP had difficulty in getting up money for hay to feed her horses while she was at weg. And the water, I cannot get over that. No neighbor is required to give water to horses, yes it would have been nice and kind, but heck they did call animal control to remove the horses from paddocks without water.
I think too many people are turning on each other here on this forum, and elsewhere, instead of saying OK, PP has a problem or problems, so do we help of what? People who live near her can maybe do some physical labor and then people can donate materials, but that still begs the question of who is going to pay for hay for horses that are being bred and multiplying each year. Intervention is necessary and help is needed, but it is not the fault of the posters on coth or other boards or the neighbors or animal control. PP needs to look in the mirro and assess the situation. Or others need to help her to do this.
i’m STILL curious how so many people here, know so much about PP, her horse keeping, house keeping, etc? i’m not defending or attacking anyone. but i can’t help but wonder how y’all know so much? are you psychic? omniscient? God? ( 
) the ASSumptions being made are incredible. we plain and simple DON’T KNOW what her farm looks like, what her travel plans and arrangements were, or who did what/where/when/how.
And sorry, MB, but there have been several posts here that have had the tone of ‘I don’t do it that way, I do it better, therefore I am holier than thou and obviously PP is an imbecile, etc etc etc’. which have also got my ire up, as it’s totally ridiculous. not to mention the lack of TACT and CLASS that has been running rampant throughout this thread.
which brings me to the catchride page. [What]??? skimmed the first page and felt so dirty and sick, that was enough. how can anyone be so [edit] disturbed. and sorry, FrenchFry, no matter what your original intent was, the fact that you’re even associated with that drivel over there (and anyone else, for that matter) causes me to lose some serious respect for you. classlessness to the Nth degree. nauseating.
i’m off to ride. this just disgusts me.
[QUOTE=Timex;5155571]
i’m STILL curious how so many people here, know so much about PP, her horse keeping, house keeping, etc? i’m not defending or attacking anyone. but i can’t help but wonder how y’all know so much? are you psychic? omniscient? God? ( )
Er, from PP herself and her numerous postings on this board - or is this a trick question?
And I take the pictures and video to be a pretty good indicator of what the fencing looks like.
I took a field trip today that reinforces my point that things aren’t always as they seem, and that photographs can be taken from certain angles to make things appear far worse than they really are.
There are many crooked ACOs up here, from what I can tell. Having lived through a battle with an ACO who seized 6 horses illegally and without ANY paperwork, then refused to return any of them to the rightful owner for almost two years, I believe that anything is possible in this case.
I also want to point out that the notice left by the ACO requested response within 12 hours. If a farm sitter was stopping by once a day, and the ACO was there very shortly after the farm sitter, said farm sitter might not see the notice in time.
well said Timex and macmtm
To reiterate, as there are clearly objections to the existance of this thread, while we are hopefully obviously concerned about the well-being of one of the members of our community and her animals, if this situation and accompanying news coverage involved a stranger to COTH, it would be open for discussion.
We can’t moderate our site based upon comments made on other sites, regardless of how distasteful they may be. If someone is posting links to this discussion or PP’s other posts elsewhere, again, this is a public site, and everyone posts here knowing that.
That said, everyone please be mindful of your language. Whether directed at another user, the ACO, the neighbor, etc., please avoid cursing (an asterisk or two doesn’t make it OK) and personal insults.
Thanks,
Mod 1
This is what has struck me, too, as well as how different the tone of this discussion (most of which, if I had to guess, is tilted in favor of or defense of the landowner) from almost any other report of alleged animal cruelty or backyard breeding. Usually, COTH is burn at the stake first, ask questions later. So either this is a learning experience or a lesson in hypocrisy; I’m not sure which yet.
Whether or not the horses are in adequate condition, I am also surprised that COTHers in general would so staunchly defend her right to “breed whatever she chooses” when COTH is usually so against backyard breeding (or anything but the most carefully thought-out additions to the general horse population) AND the landowner has openly discussed her financial and health difficulties on this board, which on their own argue against creating more mouths to feed and care for.
One last thought, maybe a positive spin on the situation: If I understand correctly from other people’s posts, this person had to sell stuff on ebay or go to unusual lengths to buy the hay necessary to see her horses through her trip away from home. We’ve got many months of winter ahead of us, and anyone streching to buy hay now is in trouble for the months ahead. Maybe it’s better for the horses and their owner if they stay on animal control’s tab while this gets sorted out, giving her some (temporary) financial breathing room to get things back in order and ensuring the horses get the groceries they need during the leanest time of year.
Most often, the vast majority of us don’t know a thing about the individuals who are charged with, or convicted of, animal cruelty, and then discussed here. Obviously, with as far flung as this group is, there will always be a few who know more about what is going on, than others.
As far as PP goes, I do not recall her ever being nasty, or antagonistic, with anyone. We’ve had posters on here, whom we later discovered had done some fairly heinous things, who have, at the same time, been pretty heinous on here.
I reviewed the threads that PP has posted here, and what struck me, other than the sheer volume, and how often she came up with a new thread-- which was frequently- like daily- is the fact that the threads were so benign in nature. I stand by my belief that this is a person who is truly needy, by all definitions-- not a malignant, cruel individual.
I am not happy to see any situation where animals are at risk, but that hasn’t been proven here, yet.
So, if you are wondering why there is no pile on, maybe this is what some of us are thinking…
Which is way longer than most would accept horses having no water.
Some people just want a conspiracy theory.
How about something simpler?
Maine law states you must have a shelter. PP has no shelter and no apparent resources to get one in place by November. PP has a prior conviction and is pending on a charge. Maybe it is “only” for not having a shelter. Still, it’s the law in Maine.
Horses get out a lot. Neighbours are tired of it. Fencing is not sufficient. That is clear from both the pictures and from what she has posted herself. This fencing is supposed to contain mares and stallions. Apart, ideally.
Complaints have been made. She is on their radar. Neighbours see no activity on the place. See horses with no hay, no water.
Maybe they could pick up a hose…is there electricity to run a pump? Is there electricity to charge the fence?
So, no apparent owner on the scene, AC is called. What if they didn’t? Then we would be crucifying them for doing nothing and letting the horses die for lack of water.
AC shows up. Horses in round pens, still no shelter, pens full of manure, fencing still unsuitable. No water. Should they just pick up a hose? Wait, there is that electricity problem again.
They stick up a notice. No one sees the notice. What are they supposed to do when it appears as though no one is looking after these horses?
Okay, so a house sitter pulled a no show. How does that change what AC could have done in the circumstances? Track her down? Or take away the horses that appear to be uncared for, given the lack of water and no response to the notice, keeping in mind they are owned by someone who they have been “working with” for a year, to no apparent effect.
As I said, there’s more to the story. And once the whole story is public knowledge, it will become clear that there ARE some issues that have been twisted/created/whatever by the neighbors and/or ACO.
It’s not my story to tell, so I’ll leave it at that, but I have gotten a much larger piece of the story than most of the posters on this BB, and because of that, will stick to my opinion that there is something fishy going on in this whole fiasco.
Yes there are things that need to be fixed (fencing, for instance) yes there are shelters to be built. But just because PP herself hasn’t come here to tell her story yet doesn’t mean that several of the issues that were brought up in the news article weren’t already in the process of being addressed.
FWIW ~
A yearling filly bred by PP was shipped to me to train in July of '08.
The filly arrived sparkly-clean and perfectly groomed. Her manners and attitude were above impeccable: It was and is my opinion (34+ years of horse training) that she was a very well-cared for horse and handled the best.
Wow, Alice, excellent synopsis, this is exactly what I have gotten from this thread. I mean, really, this is what people have been saying about this thread and her horse husbandry, and the reasons for calling people wicked, who have questions about PP’s judgements and poor boundaries with her horses.
Even though I would guess PP has the best intentions, but has to be held accountable for her situation IN WHICH SHE GOT HERSELF INTO. And this happened over time, willfully, and not as a result of a catastrophic event.
I feel this is important, and the people making excuses for her seem to think its all ok.
What has really opened my eyes to folks on this board has been the ones who have said they have left their horses alone having left the property, some said for a week or more. There are those who have said that it has to be sabotage that the horses didn’t have water - I’ve used a bathtub for water, myself, however I have to say for one horse, it didn’t last more than 3 days before it had to be changed and was almost emptied.
Who would think two tubs, old and new one, is adequate to provide water for 14 days? See, there are people on this board who have said that’s ok.
I pointed out that my horse eats 25 pounds a day of hay, may more, I don’t know if that’s normal, but what does that say for PP’s leaving one, according to her, 800lb round bale for 14 days? Anyone hazzard a guess as to how long that would last with her number of horses? Anyone willing to say how many horses she has? Eight? Lets say eight horses. So, each horse will need to nibble and stretch out his 100 pounds of hay to last 14 days. Or was it 15 days?
Anyone willing to say that THEY see nothing wrong with leaving 8 horses with two tubs of water and 800 pounds of hay for 14 days? She may say now she had a famr sitter, but when she posted about preparing to leave, she was anxious about leaving her horses alone for two weeks. She said her dog was going to go to a friend’s house. The horses and cats she was preparing to leave alone.
I don’t think it was ok for her to do this, and having posted all about it on the board, I don’t have a problem making a comment about it.
I’m just glad to hear which posters here think her fencing is fine, leaving her horses alone for two weeks is fine, how many leave their horses alone themselves, etc.
I think excusing poor judgment and putting horses at risk with neglect by saying some people are poor is the wrong answer! If you can’t maintain your fences, and are too personally challenged to ask for physical help, you shouldn’t keep your horses. Time to give them up.
If you can’t afford electricity or to keep your generator running 24-7, you shouldn’t be using electric fencing. Unless you get a solar charger, but then, you have to keep the weeds mowed and the fences maintained.
I dont’ think its ok to keep stallions without strong, very tall fences. Its just not ok in my book. People who come on this board and say it IS ok, are negligent. Not poor, negligent. Has nothing to do with money. Unless you can’t afford to build the kind of fencing your animals require. Then, you are poor, and you don’t deserve to have your stallions.
The standards of horse care many who have questioned PP’s behaviour towards her animals, who post on this board have, the lack of which PP is being criticised for not having, are bare minimum healthy standards.
Anyone, anyone, who says its ok for PP or themselves or others they know to keep horses like this, to leave them alone for more than 12 hours, is negligent. Anyone who says this is fine behaviour because lots of people have their animals living like this have poor judgement and poor boundaries. Just because this sort of thing has been your experience, doesn’t make it healthy for the animals.
Keeping animals the way she does also repeatedly puts the animals in situations where they are violating state and municipal regualtions and laws. That in its self is negligent - it puts the animals at risk of being seized.
Its not ok to keep animals like this, and its not ok to excuse her behaviour of leaving town for a long wished for vacation, because she needed it so much, and its not ok that she purchased an expensive saddle when her property and animals needed the money.
[QUOTE=AppJumpr08;5155780]
As I said, there’s more to the story. And once the whole story is public knowledge, it will become clear that there ARE some issues that have been twisted/created/whatever by the neighbors and/or ACO.
It’s not my story to tell, so I’ll leave it at that, but I have gotten a much larger piece of the story than most of the posters on this BB, and because of that, will stick to my opinion that there is something fishy going on in this whole fiasco.
Yes there are things that need to be fixed (fencing, for instance) yes there are shelters to be built. But just because PP herself hasn’t come here to tell her story yet doesn’t mean that several of the issues that were brought up in the news article weren’t already in the process of being addressed.[/QUOTE]
In real life I hate it when people allude to something, but don’t come out and state it, and I find its no different here on an internet board.
Has PP sworn you to secrecy about her plans when she came back from weg to build a shelter, or get her fencing repaired???
I just cannot stand it when people say things like this. If there is something, anything that would defend PP, I’d love to hear it.
telling us there is more to the story is just jabberwacky.
I just think it is such a darn shame when people want to breed anything they can get their hands on…whether it be an ottb or a colored horse. Make your own darn money, or else buy supreme proven stock.
It’s generally a terrible idea to show your hand publicly in legal situations.
agreed, but alluding to it is also in bad form.
Well sometimes a little something to back off the steamrollers is fine. Then again our opinions really mean nothing and we have no right to any information at all; the people who need to know, will. After it’s over we’ll probably get to hear more.
