Sad situations that are going to be happening too much...

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

[QUOTE=AppJumpr08;5160075]

I don’t believe she’s heard from the state yet - no charges, no hearing date. Amazing how quickly they seized the animals, but are now appearing to drag their feet…[/QUOTE]

Doesn’t the state have to give her a hearing within a certain amount of time after seizing her property? Otherwise it would seem to violate due process.

ETA: I withdraw the question. I don’t think you can answer it, if you know the answer, without revealing details of the case.
For anyone who’s interested, Maine’s Animal Control laws are available as a pdf
http://www.maine.gov/agriculture/aw/documents/2010ANIMALWELFARELAWBOOK.pdf
It’s a long document, but if you do a locate on the word “seizure” it lays out the procedures pretty clearly.

[CrazyGuineaPigLady]

[QUOTE=mbm;5160052]
you don’t think it is relevant to the discussion that she has a prior cruelty charge that is probably going to affect her ability to keep her horses and also is one of the things that many here are latching onto and using as their basis of character assassination? [/QUOTE]

Has it been 100%, no question about it, established the cruelty conviction is for no shelter? I’ve seen it also assumed to be for loose horses. What is the pending charge about?

Umm…. pointing out that she maybe shouldn’t have been breeding, spending money on luxury items and missing several weeks of income to go to the WEG with AC breathing down her neck isn’t exactly character assignation.

[goeslikestink]

personnaly speaking the type of shelter that one provided in this topic wasnt surfficent knowing full well what types of weather you have as in snow then it stands to reason that the shelter would stand up to the job in hand
with gale force winds , might just about be ok to jouse and protect a tad of hay from getting wet but agian one would have to tie it down properly

as for a horse being inside it, i doubt very much they did as its a bit
naff and could be freightening experince for them
wasnt fit enough to house even one of them

[AppJumpr08]

[QUOTE=pAin’t_Misbehavin’;5160133]
Doesn’t the state have to give her a hearing within a certain amount of time after seizing her property? Otherwise it would seem to violate due process.

ETA: I withdraw the question. I don’t think you can answer it, if you know the answer, without revealing details of the case.
For anyone who’s interested, Maine’s Animal Control laws are available as a pdf
http://www.maine.gov/agriculture/aw/documents/2010ANIMALWELFARELAWBOOK.pdf
It’s a long document, but if you do a locate on the word “seizure” it lays out the procedures pretty clearly.[/QUOTE]

Copied and pasted from the above mentioned rule book:

Within 3 working days of possession of the animal, the humane agent or the state veterinarian shall apply to the court for a possession order. Upon good cause shown, the court shall expedite the case and schedule a pre-hearing conference to take place within 7 days of the seizure. The court shall set a hearing date and that hearing date must be within 21 days of the date the animal was seized. The humane agent or the state veterinarian shall arrange care for the animal, including medical treatment, if necessary, pending the hearing.
The humane agent or the state veterinarian shall notify the owner, if located, of the time and place of the hearing. If the owner has not been located, the court shall order a notice to be published at least once in a newspaper of general circulation in the county where the animal was found stating the case and circumstances and giving 48 hours notice of the hearing.

[MHM]

@mbm;5160012

as for repeating myself - yeah i mentioned that already.

:lol::lol::lol:

[Kementari]

@Nojacketrequired;5159904

There is this thing called “loyalty” where you stand by a person in a time of need, especially a person you know to be a good person over the years through personal interaction. Yes, you make sure you look into the details of course. Due diligence.

This. :yes:

I would hate to have some of the people here as friends, because I’m sure the piling on isn’t just limited to people in cyberland. Bullies are bullies wherever you put them.

You know what? I’ve stood by my friends plenty of times even when I’ve thought they were at least partially wrong. (Obviously, not when life or limb - of anyone - was in danger.) That’s what you do for your friends, or else what are friends for?

So, yes, people who are PP’s friends (in real life or cyberspace) are standing up for her. That’s actually no different than in any bad news story that comes down the pipeline, it’s just some people are frothing at the mouth because this time it’s people they “know” standing up for the accused person. Me, I’m happy to see that for at least a few people, friendship still means something.

I don’t know PP, though she seemed like a decent person here. If I still lived in NE, I’d absolutely be offering to go help her out because, well, that’s what NICE people do. No, there’s no obligation to do it, and Santa isn’t going to take away your Christmas presents if you don’t - but it is still the NICE thing to do.

I think what dismays me most about this thread is what it shows about the current state of friendship and kindness in the world. :no:

[mvp]

@goeslikestink;5159666

if we didnt know her- then how many of you would post differently with the same sernerio and an unknown person

This brings up a good point. I don’t particularly go in for the gratuitous trashing of non-COTHers either. The “look at this dumb hick on Craigslist!” threads leave me cold. I don’t think we ought to hold a double standard, though it’s certainly natural that anyone would for someone they have come to know as decent or responsible enough. It’s the free-for-all sniping that’s NQR. Or maybe it just gets boring after a while. And after that, I feel sorry for the CL folks who have whatever mess going on that they created plus a critical audience.

@ReeseTheBeast;5159951

And yes, you’re right I did pass a judgment. Quite a few of them, actually. I’ll cop to that. Hell, I’m a Capricorn, that’s practically what I was born to do. The statement was just a formality.

Anyway, my post(s) was/are written from my point of view, and my frame of reference. Unlike you, I don’t have that natural talent for neutrality or tentativeness… I tend to jump headfirst, all-in, fully trusting; admittedly naieve. And these things apply to poor character judgments and poor financial decisions (like buying a horse right after college) :winkgrin:

See? incomplete info. Had I known you were a Capricorn…

And all that wait-n-see neutrality? I learned it the hard way. I’m a scorpio with a stinger attached to my a$$ that can kill me as well as you. I used to like to use it. I also bought the horse right after college (giving the finger to people and fiscal responsibility for a minute).

So I was thinking about this shelter issue, real friends vs. cyberbuddies and it occurred to me: How hard would it be to take the $800 shelter design mentioned a many pages back here, gather some COTHers, go up there and just build the sucker?

I have really enjoyed meeting a few COTHers in contexts besides this one. I don’t consider “meeting” people online any better or worse than, say, a big cocktail party. You don’t know every last detail then and you can guess their wearing their most flattering clothes at the time. Whatever.

[scheherazadetbmare]

[QUOTE=mbm;5160052]
you don’t think it is relevant to the discussion that she has a prior cruelty charge that is probably going to affect her ability to keep her horses and also is one of the things that many here are latching onto and using as their basis of character assassination?

and, just so i am very very crystal clear: i think that a “cruelty charge” for lack of shelter is over charging (is that a word?) … negligence might be better. horses can and do survive in the cold with out a man made shelter. would i keep my horses without shelter? no. should you? who knows.

plus, the actual wording of the rules seems to indicate that you are wrong.

i cant believe you are slamming me when there are a gamillion posts here tearing PP a new one.[/QUOTE]

Prior convictions usually show a pattern of behavior (abuse, cruelty, etc.) It’s recidivism.
Perhaps you have visited PP and can tell us if she has hay for the winter, feed, wormer, etc., at her place? And a way to deliver water to the horses? Is there any one on this board except the people who said they have tried to have AC act before now who has gone to PP’s place and seen how her animals are treated and can stand up and tell us that she takes adequate care of her animals?
The execution of the search warrant should reveal evidence one way or the other concerning the care of her horses. And BTW, both AC and PP can produce “expert witnesses” on horse care at any hearing or trial of the case.
It’s a sad situation, but first on anyone’s agenda should be the health of the animals, then argue the points everyone has brought up here.

[prairiewind2]

[QUOTE=Lisa Cook;5159808]
Robert Frost, a New Englander if there ever was one, certainly understood the value of good fences and their value to maintaining neighborhood relationships. “Good fences make good neighbors”. Mending Wall.[/QUOTE]

Uh, just want to point out that Frost doesn’t love that wall, or indeed, most walls. That’s the whole point of the poem.

However, he does admit in the poem that walls can be good when there are cows (there weren’t, in the case of the wall he is writing about). I suppose he’d make an exception for horses, too.

Liz

[AppJumpr08]

[QUOTE=mvp;5160193]

So I was thinking about this shelter issue, real friends vs. cyberbuddies and it occurred to me: How hard would it be to take the $800 shelter design mentioned a many pages back here, gather some COTHers, go up there and just build the sucker?[/QUOTE]

That’s what a group of us are hoping to do

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=mvp;5160193]
This brings up a good point. I don’t particularly go in for the gratuitous trashing of non-COTHers either. The “look at this dumb hick on Craigslist!” threads leave me cold. I don’t think we ought to hold a double standard, though it’s certainly natural that anyone would for someone they have come to know as decent or responsible enough. It’s the free-for-all sniping that’s NQR. Or maybe it just gets boring after a while. And after that, I feel sorry for the CL folks who have whatever mess going on that they created plus a critical audience.

See? incomplete info. Had I known you were a Capricorn…

And all that wait-n-see neutrality? I learned it the hard way. I’m a scorpio with a stinger attached to my a$$ that can kill me as well as you. I used to like to use it. I also bought the horse right after college (giving the finger to people and fiscal responsibility for a minute).

So I was thinking about this shelter issue, real friends vs. cyberbuddies and it occurred to me: How hard would it be to take the $800 shelter design mentioned a many pages back here, gather some COTHers, go up there and just build the sucker?

I have really enjoyed meeting a few COTHers in contexts besides this one. I don’t consider “meeting” people online any better or worse than, say, a big cocktail party. You don’t know every last detail then and you can guess their wearing their most flattering clothes at the time. Whatever.[/QUOTE]

I would look in the mirror about judging other’s and being vengeful and mean.

Sorry that some of what others do on COTH is not to your liking and yes, you do have your rights to say so, but maybe in a more appropiate place, like on those threads, if you really meant they were offensive to you?

As I have said before, there is on this very long thread much to see, many layers, as it is in this case.
I don’t think this is the place to vent about others and other that goes on COTH.:no:

[scheherazadetbmare]

[QUOTE=CrazyGuineaPigLady;5159740]
I can’t tell you how many people over the last 8 years of my parenting board adventures have faked a baby, faked the death of a child or romanticized their life while CPS was knocking on the door every other day.

It happens all.the.time and nice people get burned for being sucked in when poop hits the fan.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. So I would want to hear from some of the people who have actually been at PP’s place and witnessed her animal husbandry. Someone posted much earlier that she’d been trying for 10 yrs to have AC do something.

[Lisa_Cook]

@prairiewind2;5160205

Uh, just want to point out that Frost doesn’t love that wall, or indeed, most walls. That’s the whole point of the poem.

However, he does admit in the poem that walls can be good when there are cows (there weren’t, in the case of the wall he is writing about). I suppose he’d make an exception for horses, too.

Liz

I didn’t think I needed to dissect the poem for English class. But the whole point is that he (Robert Frost) does not like the walls, but even he says they are needed for cows. Which I kinda inferred could also mean livestock in general, ie. horses…I didn’t realize that I had to spell out my point so clearly.

Sigh. Anyway, carry on…

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

So, if the horses were seized on Oct 6th, there will have to be a hearing within 21 days, or before Oct. 27. At least it would seem so, from reading the Maine statute.

[stryder]

[QUOTE=CrazyGuineaPigLady;5160148]

Umm…. pointing out that she maybe shouldn’t have been … missing several weeks of income to go to the WEG [/QUOTE]

Ummmmm … a couple weeks or less does not qualify as several. There standard order is couple (two) few (usually three or four) and several (more than four or five.)

[prairiewind2]

[QUOTE=Lisa Cook;5160220]
I didn’t think I needed to dissect the poem for English class. But the whole point is that he (Robert Frost) does not like the walls, but even he says they are needed for cows. Which I kinda inferred could also mean livestock in general, ie. horses…I didn’t realize that I had to spell out my point so clearly.

Sigh. Anyway, carry on…[/QUOTE]

S’OK. I’ve been reading this thread and seeing people run off in all directions with rumors, innuendos and preconceptions. I was fairly afraid that poor ole Frost was going to be labeled as a “wall lover” by those who didn’t know the poem or bother to read it. I could see this misrepresentation being passed on from mother to daughter, father to son, forever more…so I figured I’d set the thing to rights before it got started, thus saving the world from another thread like this one.

Liz

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=prairiewind2;5160235]
S’OK. I’ve been reading this thread and seeing people run off in all directions with rumors, innuendoes and preconceptions. I was fairly afraid that poor ole Frost was going to be labeled as a “wall lover” by those who didn’t know the poem or bother to read it. I could see this misrepresentation being passed on from mother to daughter, father to son, forever more…so I figured I set the thing to rights before it got started, thus saving the world from another thread like this one.

Liz[/QUOTE]

:lol:

Funny, if it was not so sad.

[LLDM]

@mvp;5160193

So I was thinking about this shelter issue, real friends vs. cyberbuddies and it occurred to me: How hard would it be to take the $800 shelter design mentioned a many pages back here, gather some COTHers, go up there and just build the sucker?

Um, because one 8’ by 16’ shelter isn’t going to do it? Because there needs to be at least 2, if not 3, for 6 six horses? Because that won’t fix the fencing problem? Because it would need to be permanent, non-electric fencing if mowing will be an on-going problem or a much better installed electric with enough power and in a proper configuration to handle the snowfall issues in that area of Maine?

I’m not trying to be an a$$ here. But while putting a bandaid on the problem might make you feel better, what will it fix in the long run? Will it truly help PP’s horses get through the Maine winter? Or will it just “technically” prevent them being seized again?? Is that what is best for the horses? Or even for PP? Are you sure?

Maybe you should consider a long term plan rather than a quick fix?

SCFarm

[Equilibrium]

[QUOTE=Mozart;5159726]
Man, I swore to myself I would not post on this thread again but here I go…

1. Several people have mentioned that
   a. We should back off and be respectful to PP
   b. Those neighbours are pretty quick to get on TV.

Well, seems once again Warhol was right. Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame. Unfortunately, in PP’s case, she made her life very public. Yes, this is a horse BB but when my horse friends and I know ALL about her woes she could be called Famous. Or maybe Infamous, after all of this. Regardless, once you have put yourself out there, you can’t take it back when things go sideways.

Which leads me to my second point.
2) Where were her friends? Not cyber friends or people who say “yes, get that saddle, take on those kittens, breed that filly”. I mean REAL friends, friends who will show up and help you look after your horses, bring a weedwhacker, help you fix your fences. Friends that are solid enough to say “Jaime…we are worried about you. Can we talk about what is going on here?”

I hope that if, one day, the cheese slips off my cracker a little and I start being unrealistic about my limitations, my real friends will sit me down and kindly perform an intervention.

An internet community can be a fun diversion but it is no substitute for REAL friends.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this post whole heartedly and think I alluded to it in an earlier post. I know the friends I have would not let me sit by and let my horses or property got to rack and ruin while buying a bunch of this and that. They would give me a kick up the arse. And in a way that however I may not like it, I would know what I’d need to do.

I like my internet community, but it’s nice in a different way. But the people who know me in real life are the ones who will also help me if I need help. And the same goes for me helping them. Sometimes crap happens and every now and again we need a helping hand.

Terri

[AppJumpr08]

[QUOTE=LLDM;5160250]
Um, because one 8’ by 16’ shelter isn’t going to do it? Because there needs to be at least 2, if not 3, for 6 six horses? Because that won’t fix the fencing problem? Because it would need to be permanent, non-electric fencing if mowing will be an on-going problem or a much better installed electric with enough power and in a proper configuration to handle the snowfall issues in that area of Maine?

I’m not trying to be an a$$ here. But while putting a bandaid on the problem might make you feel better, what will it fix in the long run? Will it truly help PP’s horses get through the Maine winter? Or will it just “technically” prevent them being seized again?? Is that what is best for the horses? Or even for PP? Are you sure?

Maybe you should consider a long term plan rather than a quick fix?

SCFarm[/QUOTE]

We aren’t literally only doing one 8’ x 16’ shelter to squeak by. Obviously there are other parts that need to be addressed too. We are all aware of that, and are also aware that a band aid isn’t the way to go right now.