Saddle Chariot?

[system]

Thomas, with question

Thomas 1…where did you see the saddlechariot? Did you see it on a horse or just online? Do you know about the RDA aspects of it? Do you know what the British Driving Society has said about it? I assume you are British using phrases like, “load of tosh” and so on. You seem really upset about the saddlechariot design or creator or something so was curious as to if you have lost clients to it or something. Anyway, just curious as to your viewing history of the saddlechariot. Okay, hope you have a great day…and cheer up! It is all in fun anyway. Take care.
Spanishgreet (greenie member in Colorado, US)

[Drive_NJ]

Well Spanishgreet
I’ll be interested in hearing from someone who has actually tried one of these things

Its not something I’d ever want because it just looks danged uncomfortable (for the rider) to me
but the concept is interesting

I think there is another similar vehicle called the hyperbike. Though I may have mixed up what its features are . . .

Overall the SC reminds me of those huge contractor lawn mowers with the little platform for the mower to stand on that follows the mower deck. They dont look comfortable to me either, but lots of people use them?!?

[system]

Saddle Chariot - I use one

[QUOTE=Renae;2589812]
OMG, that is histarical! If you get out of the cart it comes unhitched from the pony, thats great so you hop out of the cart and abandon the pony and the vehicle flies free from him and scraes him half to death. And then they show this ill-designed item being used as a forecart. Poor ponies![/QUOTE]

Sorry Renae but you are sooooooo wrong in your perception of this :lol: I could have picked out quotes from many of the posts on here, but as the safety feature is such a unique part of the Saddle Chariot I highlighted your post, no offence I hope :winkgrin:

My using a Saddle Chariot revolves around my beloved American Dream, who is a failed trotter, sold on from one trainer to the next, each of whom had another training style that would teach him to pace, then one that decided he was a trotter, then he was a pacer again and so on, he came to me as a totally nuerotic bag of bones, I was told he would never drive/race as he took hold of the bit and became uncontrollable, he also pulled like a train:eek:

Dispite all of this my heart went out to him, he was sad, depressed and had a hopeless look in his eye, I took him home and began to retrain him to the saddle, the first part of this was to remove the bit from his mouth - nothing to lean on - and to use Western style training, to start to get him to move his feet and think like a horse. 18 months on I have an awesome riding horse, the final part of his re education was to re introduce him to driving Which is where I had the great fortune to meet Simon of the Saddle Chariot

Most of what I do with Dreamer is off road, we do miles of riding, training for endurance, most of this riding is done alone, just my horse and me, I needed a Cart/Carriage that would enable me to drive the way I rode, I saw the Saddle Chariot and thought it would fit the purpose.

I contacted him and he spent a lot of time asking pertinent questions about my horse and myself, then without asking for any financial reward, he arranged to come 300 miles to look at Dreamer and to try him in a Saddle Chariot. Simon spent all day at my yard, teaching me the harnessing and the safety aspects, working with Dreamer, he then left me with a Chariot to practise with.

The Chariot is very much non BHS, there is no bit used, no blinkers, no crupper, no whips, about as far from ‘traditional’ driving as you can get, the built in safety does mean I can go out alone You have to remember the preditor/prey thinking aspect of the horse, a horse will run if it is panicked then chased, remove the object chasing it and it will stop running and turn to face the preditor - the Carriage Dreamer has gone from being uncontrollable in a driving situation, to being calm, quiet and responsible. I can remove the chariot at speed and Dreamer stops and turns to face me, the Chariot is easy to move around, its balanced, it is robust, it does go off road, in short it does exactely what it says on the tin:eek:

Simon is a modest kinda bloke, dont believe all you read on his web site, he knows a lot more about horses that he pretends to, the University may not know what a horse needs, but Simon does, working together I believe they have designed the next generation of driving Chariot.

Finally, lets let the Horse have the final say. It took two men to hold Dreamer whilst they put him in the racing sulky as well as a blindfold, he stands relaxed in my yard, no one holds him, I attach the Saddle Chariot on my own without him being head tied, that I think speaks for itself.

Maz

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=Spanishgreet;2598247]
Apparently not one forum member whom has posted on this thread has ever used the saddlechariot. That is too bad really, and basically nullifies all arguments against it. [/QUOTE] I’ve never tried flying by strapping 2 wings to my arms but I know that doesn’t work and is a bad idea too

As I understand it,
I notice you’re new to COTH and have never posted before. So first of all hello and welcome

Perhaps you could introduce yourself and in particular let us know what your experience and knowledge is pertaining to engineering, driving and driving horses and carriages in particular. And so I can evaluate the worth and value of your opinion.

It only seems fair that those with real experience in this area would submit testimony to counter some of the comments made by those who are relying only on their ordinary way of thinking about driving; but again, have no qualifications or experience. “Poor Ponies”? Do any of you really know your ponies?
Unlike yourself, I don’t post behind the cloak of anonymity and I do indeed have breadth and depth of experience and qualification. As do many others on this forum and some of who have made comment on this thread. I don’t know you from Adam and judge you only by the posting you’ve only just made.

Several of you have gone to great legnth to prove your qualifications as horsepeople and horse-gaget experts which in general, in any field, makes those of a less base and humbler nature, question your experience. Those whom rely soley (and gratingly speak loudly) on past accomplishments within any normal route would not be interested in anything innovative, enlightened, or FUN…so how do you see fit to judge something that is outside the scope of your comprehension?
Is there supposed to be some logic or sense in this? Because if there is, then I’m dashed if I can see or understand the perversity of it!

I compare it to riding bareback with a rope… etc etc etc etc
Interesting… But to be fair, what I really mean is "no comparison whatsoever and nothing at all to do with driving a pony and indeed what I’m really thinking is "what on earth is this poster talking about! "

How many of you whom commented (bashed) the IDEA of the saddlechariot can say your horse would willingly lay down his/her life for you? Who amongst you can say that you do not use underhanded approaches in training and practicing with your horses? How many of you can ride, lunge, drive without any gear at all? How many of you rely on gear to ride, lunge, drive? Who among you have become half horse?
Erm… are you real? Are you serious? What are you smoking?

You may have driven everyday of your life, started 500 colts, or win a class here and there but that does little to prove anything to the next horse in line.
mmm interesting… not true of course but wel erm… interesting.

People with wisdom, horsemen and not, generally do not bash other people and their ideas, ESPECIALLY IF IT BENEFITS THE HORSE

Well IMO you probably need to get out more and come to appreciate that horse people are ordinarily opinionated and convinced that their way is the right way.

However the critical comments about this particular lump of scrap metal are all focussed on detriment to the horse and so far no experienced driver is persuaded there’s any benefit whatsoever.

The majority of people using the saddlechariot are of that enlightened type. Their horses are generally barefoot, bitless, naturally kept, organically fed, long-lived, HAPPY horses that have brilliant connections with their humans. We need to ask these horses for their reviews of the saddlechariot via translation by their owners whom truly are FOR THE HORSE.
yeh… right… so I’ve got the picture: they’re a bunch of folks on the lunatic fringes ??

I am a greenie here and will likely not contribute nor waste time on these boards again. I think it would be better to be learning something from my horses rather than massaging my self-gratifying EGO on this forum anymore.
Well I’ll try my very best to cope without the benefit of your further wisdom and contribution.

I thought this video was particularly interesting. The stick the guy waves at random over the top of the horse is presumably some sort of natural and empathethic saddle chariot aid that us mere ignorant carriage drivers wouldn’t understand?? And likewise the waving hands and pulling arms up and back to lever on the horse would also be some sort of fantastic natural happy way to drive a horse?

http://www.clipshack.com/Clip.aspx?key=F271BBF04247BBF3

By the way, the wire horse sculpture is really an astoundingly complicated, intricate and awesome piece of artwork. If we all only spent that much time with REAL horses…how much better in our hearts we all would be! Tally ho!
Thank you… it didn’t take that long to do either :winkgrin:

you seem really upset about the saddlechariot design or creator or something so was curious as to if you have lost clients to it or something.
Not at all. I’ve been around long enough to have become pretty used to seeing folks do daft things with horses and I’m very familiar with basic engineering and steel fabrication and scrap metal. Its not the market sector I’m in though.

[hitchinmygetalong]

I think the tires/wheels are too small.

[system]

However the critical comments about this particular lump of scrap metal are all focussed on detriment to the horse and so far no experienced driver is persuaded there’s any benefit whatsoever.

Hiya Thomas

I seem to have jumped into the middle of an argument here regarding the above quote, there has been no detriment to my horse whatsoever, in fact he has benefitted from being introduced to the Saddle Chariot

yeh… right… so I’ve got the picture: they’re a bunch of folks on the lunatic fringes ??

ermmmm, as a middle aged woman, Im not on the lunatic fringe. I try to take all I learned from the BHS, mix it in with the American style of training, add a good dose of seeing things from the horses point of view and come up with an individual training plan for each horse I work with. As with humans, all horses are different, 1 size doesnt fit all.

I thought this video was particularly interesting. The stick the guy waves at random over the top of the horse is presumably some sort of natural and empathethic saddle chariot aid that us mere ignorant carriage drivers wouldn’t understand?? And likewise the waving hands and pulling arms up and back to lever on the horse would also be some sort of fantastic natural happy way to drive a horse?

I must have had a senior moment when I watched the video:yes: I didnt see any stick, waving hands or pulling up of arms, I did see a man driving a pony in a chariot, balancing himself without jagging at his pony’s mouth :yes:

Not at all. I’ve been around long enough to have become pretty used to seeing folks do daft things with horses and I’m very familiar with basic engineering and steel fabrication and scrap metal. Its not the market sector I’m in though.[/QUOTE]

Ive been around a long time too :sigh: a lot of things change, mostly for the better as we grow in our knowledge of the horse, we have to remember that horses have been around a lot longer than we have, they didnt ask to enter our world and in all the years we have been interacting with them, the horse hasnt changed one bit, it is still the most honest and innocent creature we interact with.

Driving has changed, again I would like to think for the better, the Chariot is a new idea, one day this argument will be looked at in amazement as the Saddle Chariot will be of the people and driving will become accessible to everyone.

Ooooops, before I forget to mention it yet again, the Chariot does not cost ‘thousands’

Best regards

Maz

[system]

[QUOTE=hitchinmygetalong;2599744]
I think the tires/wheels are too small. :)[/QUOTE]

Hiya

I think the tyres and wheels are the size they need to be, they take me off road, over all kinds of terrain, rocks, sand, mud, grass and so on. They carry me on the road, all done in safety behind a happy, balanced, carefree horse.

Bet deep down inside there is a small part of you that is dying to have a go :winkgrin:

Maz

[hitchinmygetalong]

@Dreamerandmaz;2601287

Hiya

I think the tyres and wheels are the size they need to be, they take me off road, over all kinds of terrain, rocks, sand, mud, grass and so on. They carry me on the road, all done in safety behind a happy, balanced, carefree horse.

Bet deep down inside there is a small part of you that is dying to have a go :winkgrin:

Maz

Hiya to you!

Do you have any video of this thing being pulled by a horse?

[system]

Saddlechariot? Thanks

Thanks to everyone whom read my post here. Contrary to what some may believe, I am not all that clandestine, nor am I high:lol:. I have made a life amongst horses and am fairly normal considering:D.
I do think that these pages on the saddlechariot are tending to echo quite a bit of the current worldwide discussion regarding how best to understand and work with horses.
I agree that there is no one perscription for all horses. There are some pieces of equiptment that I think should be outlawed…like serrata chain nosebands, for instance.
I do think that any piece of equipment, as long as it fits the particular horse, can be used in matured hands.
I can lunge, ride, and drive horses (practically any horse with the exception of two chicken hearts and one true rogue so far!) without any gear. I can also boot, bit, braid, harness, and shoe my horses, as well as attire myself for the showring and have done fairly well over the years in that regard.

I believe that a change very much arrived. Collectively, many people are heading in new directions with their horses in terms of training, testing, and using non-traditional tack and gear. In general, this appears to have greatly benefitted a great many horses and throughly rehabilitated many. This is wonderful for the horse!
I do stick by my earlier assertation that gear and tack, including carriages and carts, are only as helpful or harmful as the human using them. There seems to be a great interest amongst horsepeople whom, whether currently or in past times, EDUCATED rather than TRAINED the horse. My experience, as I would wish to share it at this time, would be that I have had great success with all horses whom have been educated in a non-manipulative way. These are the types of horses whom regardless of breeding, confirmation, or past history, will absoultely burst their hearts for the rider or driver and so tend to consistently give brillant performances. We, as “trainers” should remember that the bringing about of the backyard horse is just as interesting and fulfilling as bringing along the world-beater. A good many people whom I know here whom have brought along their own personal horse from start to finish, seem to have something magical between them and the horse. It is as if they have uncovered the grail or something…really amazing.
If the saddlechariot, as a tool, is helping so many horses and their humans, why deny it credit? Because a more classical horseman would avoid it does not mean that the saddlechariot is not in theory, design, or application, a fine piece of eqipment. It simply means one chooses not to use it. Again, my concern is not about the STYLE OR TRADITION of equipment…rather, my concern is for the horse. I think visitors to this page will be able to judge for themselves… based not only on the comments here but also on the tone and temperment of the posters…about the possibility that the saddlechariot seems to be making its way into more compassionate, pro-horse hands opposed to those whom may have a great deal of experience, but sadly little understanding of the horse. I make this argument based on that which I threw out about lungeing, riding, driving without any tack at all…it is only unbelievable to those who cannot do it. It cannot be done only by those whom are unable to let go of control and really feel toward the horse. Of course it takes HUGE amounts of time and effort to get to that place…time and effort in one’s heart and mind and a lot of sleepless nights contemplating how better to help the horse find the way tomorrow. It is the practioners path. For another, it may be more suitable to their particular disposition to follow the path of study, the path of technique, the classical teachings. I think all good horsepeople have something to offer and teach; as do all horses.
I don’t want to fight here. I posted out of concern that people reading here whom had not heard of the saddlechariot would be misled by comments that are inappropriate and slanderizing. I have not tried the saddlechariot myself but have heard great things about it. I am hoping to be able to order one sometime soon to try for myself and so would write again, at that time, if this page is continued. It is not expensive for a cart! It is cheaper than my training cart and much, much less than my Coyatix cart…I am not a carriage driver, okay?! That is all in fun for me. I ride jumpers and have for over 25 years.
Hopefully…no hard feelings and do hope others will post here regarding their experience with the saddlechariot. I would hope to avoid calling people whom tend to their horses very well, “lunatics”. If that got out on more forums or bulletins…that could generate a lot of upset! Be careful! We are not here to injure one another! Besides, that is the new wave of horsemanship on the world! It is bigger than us! It is for the horse.

Take care, everyone. Best wishes and all good luck.

[system]

[QUOTE=hitchinmygetalong;2601295]
Hiya to you!

Do you have any video of this thing being pulled by a horse?[/QUOTE]

Wow a friendly response, thank you soooooo much

I dont do teccy thingies, being a girly n all that, all I can say is that my boy is 15.2 and he does fantastic in it, Im over the moon at the change in his attitude towards driving, I watched him racing before I bought him, his whole demeanor was one of frantic fear and nowhere to run :no:

We live on a hill farm in North Wales where we breed Shire horses. The long term plan is to use the Saddle Chariots with agricultural attachments to manage the 60 acres we have. Many of our fields have horrendous slopes,:eek: very good for horses but not good for tractors. Simon has designed Bracken crushers, harrows, seed sowers and other implements that can be attached to the Chariot and used, [B][again safely,/B] over terrain such as ours. 2 of our Shires will be trained to pull the Chariots.

As a penny pinching farmer, they are a lot more cost effective than the modern implements

Simon is very approachable, Im sure if you ask him, he will have a video tucked away somewhere, however, his original idea was to give a useful life to the thousands of small ponies, whose lives are just to sit in a field doing nothing. The saddle chariot gives them something to do

[hitchinmygetalong]

Well, I’m happy to hear you are pleased with this product. It is quite different from anything I have ever seen and I have found this thread to be very interesting reading.

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=Dreamerandmaz;2601279]

I must have had a senior moment when I watched the video:yes: I didnt see any stick, waving hands or pulling up of arms, I did see a man driving a pony in a chariot, balancing himself without jagging at his pony’s mouth :yes:
[/QUOTE] In the first guy’s right hand and his arms are way up in the air and wide at 6 to 9 seconds. There’s a heck of a lot of play and leverage on the pony’s mouth there.

Girl in the lilac jacket at 40 seconds lifts hands and slaps the reins on the pony’s backside… interesting technique :eek: The observer says “do you want to step off now” and she does and whoops all over the place and a lovely example of why its not that easy to step off a moving object onto terra firma.

Albeit the pony is desperate to stop and is only going VERY slow.

And there’s a load of videos for those who want to watch them on here:

http://www.clipshack.com/UserInfo.aspx?id=9027

[RidesAHaflinger]

What is the purpose of having the cart disengage from the horse? And does it ever malfunction and disengage when it’s not supposed to? :eek: Just guessing here, but is that supposed to be a safety feature? As in: horse begins to run away, buck, kick, rear, or otherwise object, so I can reach down and just unhitch him and let him get away from the source of his misbehavior? Is that feature promoted as being something that would be useful in lieu of the lengthy, patient training that most of us do with our driving horses to teach them not to misbehave in harness? Sorry, I haven’t studied the website because I’m not really interested in the vehicle. Just hoping someone in the know can give me the summary version of why this would be a good feature to have in a vehicle.

[system]

[QUOTE=Thomas_1;2602480]
In the first guy’s right hand and his arms are way up in the air and wide at 6 to 9 seconds. There’s a heck of a lot of play and leverage on the pony’s mouth there.

Girl in the lilac jacket at 40 seconds lifts hands and slaps the reins on the pony’s backside… interesting technique :eek: The observer says “do you want to step off now” and she does and whoops all over the place and a lovely example of why its not that easy to step off a moving object onto terra firma.

Albeit the pony is desperate to stop and is only going VERY slow.

And there’s a load of videos for those who want to watch them on here:

http://www.clipshack.com/UserInfo.aspx?id=9027[/QUOTE]

Thomas

I would just like to point out that the pony is bitless Having met Henry, I can tell you that he wasnt desperate to stop :lol: He is actually trained to stop when someone steps off the back, something Im training my horse to do, its actually very simple and they pick it up very quickly :yes: As for slapping the rump with the reins, thats a very old fashioned way of sending a horse forward in a cart, as well used as clicking to it.

I think the whole board knows that your dead set against the Chariot, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, I think, as a mature man, having made your point(s) you should now allow someone who has a Chariot and has found it to be of benefit, to tell interested parties about it, without then having to defend every thing they say.

Lets agree to disagree, I wont disparage traditional carriage driving or tell tales of how horses are ‘trained’ if you leave me to tell others about the Saddle Chariot if they ask a question.

Best regards

Maz

[system]

[QUOTE=RidesAHaflinger;2602869]
What is the purpose of having the cart disengage from the horse? And does it ever malfunction and disengage when it’s not supposed to? :eek: Just guessing here, but is that supposed to be a safety feature? As in: horse begins to run away, buck, kick, rear, or otherwise object, so I can reach down and just unhitch him and let him get away from the source of his misbehavior?

Yep thats exactly what it is used for and no it hasnt ever disengaed or malfunctioned as it takes a very definate movement to engage the disengage :lol:

Is that feature promoted as being something that would be useful in lieu of the lengthy, patient training that most of us do with our driving horses to teach them not to misbehave in harness?

There we have the difference in thinking. Not only is the Chariot different, but the thought regarding the training is different too. We dont train our horses not to misbehave, we train our horses to understand that there is nothing to fear from the Chariot. There is no bit, therefore nothing jagging on their mouths, there are no blinkers, they have full vision, there is no crupper, therefore nothing dragging their tails, there is no whip to make them run faster, in short, there is nothing for the horse to fear from the Chariot. However, horses are 600llb chickens, please refer to my previous post regarding the preditor/prey scenario and how the Chariot addresses this.

Sorry, I haven’t studied the website because I’m not really interested in the vehicle. Just hoping someone in the know can give me the summary version of why this would be a good feature to have in a vehicle.[/QUOTE]

May I suggest that you read previous posts where this has been explained, I understand you not watching the Video(s) but I dont understand you not reading the various views and then commenting

My abject apologies if you have read them and didnt understand, I hope I have managed to clear a few issues for you

Best regards Maz

[RidesAHaflinger]

@Dreamerandmaz;2602992

May I suggest that you read previous posts where this has been explained, I understand you not watching the Video(s) but I dont understand you not reading the various views and then commenting

My abject apologies if you have read them and didnt understand, I hope I have managed to clear a few issues for you

Best regards Maz

I’ve read the posts, watched the videos and still don’t understand why I’d want to bail off my vehicle and disengage it from my horse. But if it works for you, great. :yes:

Just for the record, though, my horses are quite comfortable in their blinkers and cruppers. There is nothing inherently evil about a well-fitting traditional harness. Furthermore, my horses are trained to respond to voice commands. They understand and respond to verbal commands for walk, trot, canter as well as left and right. They want to go forward because (1) they’re trained that way and (2) they enjoy their job. :winkgrin: Like most well-trained driving horses, mine understand that the whip is there to provide instruction - a tap here or there tells them the direction of the bend. They have no fear of the whip whatsoever. The whip is never use punitively by a good driver.

I wish you all the best with your driving endeavors. It’s nice that you’re happy with your choice of equipment even if you might not be getting the reception or enthusiasm about it that you’d like to see. I think this is where the phrase “to each his own” comes in. :lol:

[MySparrow]

I can well vouch that Haffie’s boys are happy, playful, obedient, hardworking driving horses with a great work ethic and such delightful, outgoing personalities that my husband was utterly smitten. Driving with them was a delight, though both are young.

I wonder if Simon would be willing to join us and let us know what inspired his thinking with the chariot?

[system]

[QUOTE=RidesAHaflinger;2603124]
I’ve read the posts, watched the videos and still don’t understand why I’d want to bail off my vehicle and disengage it from my horse. But if it works for you, great. :yes:

Just for the record, though, my horses are quite comfortable in their blinkers and cruppers. There is nothing inherently evil about a well-fitting traditional harness. Furthermore, my horses are trained to respond to voice commands. They understand and respond to verbal commands for walk, trot, canter as well as left and right. They want to go forward because (1) they’re trained that way and (2) they enjoy their job. :winkgrin: Like most well-trained driving horses, mine understand that the whip is there to provide instruction - a tap here or there tells them the direction of the bend. They have no fear of the whip whatsoever. The whip is never use punitively by a good driver.

I wish you all the best with your driving endeavors. It’s nice that you’re happy with your choice of equipment even if you might not be getting the reception or enthusiasm about it that you’d like to see. I think this is where the phrase “to each his own” comes in. :lol:[/QUOTE]

I sooooo agree with you In the Chariot I see the ‘alternative’, perhaps what some would call the tree hugging minority, unfortunately Im too old to be a rebel, but I do like to keep an open mind.

Traditional driving doesnt suit me anymore, I want to be able to harness up and shoot down to the local feed merchant, I want to be able to open gates, get through and close them, I want to be able to use my Chariot as others would use their cars, to me the Chariot is a way of life, not just a hobby and I find Im using it more and more in place of the 4x4 I normally drive.

I like the voice commands, my Dreamer (named for the horse I hoped he would become, not the horse I bought :yes:)responds well to the voice, I dont need the whip to aid the bend.

I think above all that the Chariot is fun, it appeals to young and old equally, its safe to use and can be used in everyday situations.

Memo to self* Ask Simon if he can design a supermarket trolley :eek::winkgrin: Now that would raise a storm :lol:

[system]

[QUOTE=MySparrow;2603244]
I can well vouch that Haffie’s boys are happy, playful, obedient, hardworking driving horses with a great work ethic and such delightful, outgoing personalities that my husband was utterly smitten. Driving with them was a delight, though both are young.

I wonder if Simon would be willing to join us and let us know what inspired his thinking with the chariot?[/QUOTE]

I like to hear of happy horses :yes: Im sure the driving fraternity has as many horror stories attached to it as any other sport that uses horses, I know here in the UK there are drivers ‘known’ for their dodgy training methods.

I havent brought this forum to Simons attention, I only found it because I googled Chariot in a moment of madness, the posts that disparaged the Chariot, by people with no experience of them, stirred me into joining, even though this is a US based forum?

To me its a bit like going back in time when people decried the train, saying that people would die if they travelled by train as it would go so fast they would suffocate We now know that all of that was nonsense, much the same as a lot of what has been said against the Chariot:yes:

A lot of the anti movement is more about the class system in England, than whether the Chariot is a good design, over here the old class system is still in place in a lot of equine pursuits and God forbid that the ordinary people find something that will allow them to become horse owners :eek: Their places are as lowly grooms :yes::winkgrin: after all, if all us lower class people get a Chariot, who is going to sit as groom for all the posh drivers and run around n fetch n carry for them

Got to go, farm to run, horses to see to, Chariot to drive

[Simon_Saddlechariot]

Saddlechariots

One of the great pleasures of the web and the various fora, is the opportunity for informed discussion to operate around the globe. I am the inventor of the Saddlechariot and I will follow Thomas 1 in mentioning my eldest daughter of whom I am very proud. When she read the first page of this forum she was reduced to tears by the lies Thomas 1 chose to tell about my work.
She has subsequently been enormously cheered by the people who are prepared to support, or at least look at something new, but on behalf of a number of people I have to answer the lies. Tony, at Camelion Architectural Metalwork in Birmingham is a very skilled welder who takes enormous pride in his work.
Thomas’s comments on the steelwork are as follows.
“I can’t think why as it would only cost about £100 maximum to build
Its just jerry built”
“its not even on custom built axles or wheelhubs. Just old rubbish car wheels bought from a scrap yard!”
“I am on consideration prepared to come down on the side of those who suggested it was a heap of shoddy scrap metal”
“However the critical comments about this particular lump of scrap metal are all focussed on detriment to the horse and so far no experienced driver is persuaded there’s any benefit whatsoever.”
“I’ve been around long enough to have become pretty used to seeing folks do daft things with horses and I’m very familiar with basic engineering and steel fabrication and scrap metal. Its not the market sector I’m in though.”

It is clear from Thomas 1's statement about "old rubbish car wheels bought from a scrapyard" that he has never seen the Saddlechariot as this is a complete lie. On the basis of never looking at the vehicle, I do not think he is competent to assess anything else, especially not a precision engineered, TIG welded, modular stainless steel structure accepting a range of stub axle assemblies. Thomas 1 needs to apologise for his insults to Tony and Steve and all the other guys at Camelion. 

Lancaster University Product Development Unit is one of those really good ideas to help startup businesses. It gives people like me access to serious engineers, computer programmers or whatever. Stuart Taylor and Dr Allan Rennie have put in a serious amount of work on ensuring the Saddlechariot is as safe as possible. Not only did they assess the vehicle as it was in December 2005 but they helped me upgrade it to the vehicle it is in August 2007. The first day we met, they came out and drove Hnery in the saddlechariot round the field as I considered it imperative they understood how the saddlechariot relates to the pony. They also wanted to have some fun and were both cantering inside a minute.
This is what Thomas 1 says about Lancaster University.

Quote:
“Poorly designed, very hard on the small animals because it is not ever balanced. Terrible ride, poorly constructed, not going to hold up as pictured, riding about in fields.”
“And all the above is true and whilst Lancaster University Engeering Department may have been involved in the Engineering design, trust me they’re not carriage drivers or equestrian specialists and I well remember their involvement with RDA vehicles was of moderate assistance in terms of ensuring the vehicle would stand the stresses of the work to be undertaken. They have NO expertise assessing the suitability for the horse!”

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"Speaking as an Engineer who builds carriages (not as a carriage driver) if that cost more than £50 to design then he was robbed. Heck, it could be drawn on an autocad by an apprentice in less than an hour! "

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"Lancaster university provide a mutual benefit link service for small businesses who don’t have their own resources. And they check the structure and integrity of design work from a safety perspective and using their engineering design students. "

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"Concept of “she who must be obeyed”. Designed and built by me. And assisted by my daughters.

Health warning: This was not checked by Lancaster University "

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The statement that "They have NO expertise assessing the suitability for the horse!" is odd if the RDA have already used them to look at horse drawn vehicles. Did they really learn nothing from the experience?
From the start Allan and Stuart made it clear they were not horsemen although any engineer is used to working with the concept of a human-animal/machine interface, it is called ergonomics. The weight on the saddle is a straight engineering assessment, as is the pull on the traces and breeching. Even a child can assess that pointed or sharp bits are best kept out of harms way. So Stuart performed all his engineering work in the knowledge of exactly how and where it would interface with the pony, and this was a pony he had met and driven.
Because Stuart was concerned that there were areas where he was ignorant, I made an appointment to show the vehicle and harness in action to our vet at Frame Swift and Partners. They could see no problems.

I have to revert to a quote by Thomas 1 that I have used earlier,
“However the critical comments about this particular lump of scrap metal are all focussed on detriment to the horse and so far no experienced driver is persuaded there’s any benefit whatsoever.”

Thomas 1 is saying that there is detriment to the horse, and a vet can’t pick this up. The Saddlechariot has demonstrated for four years at the Royal Cornwall Show. Do they really put cruel vehicles on display more than once? The Princess Royal met us at the Royal Cornwall Show and spent some time discussing the design features, especially the use of sailing technology. I have demonstrated the vehicle, before the latest modifications to George Bowman at his yard in Penrith.
I think Thomas 1 really needs some evidence to support his assertions and if he cannot support them he should apologise to all concerned, not least to those who come to Chronicle forums to learn.
Simon
ps I will be back to discuss other points with all the others who have commented, but this particular series of comments needed addressing as a single issue.