Oh, i had no idea i was in the presence of an expert.
I spoke with my coach about this convo yesterday. She agrees with me.
Umm…I sure hope anyone who is riding beyond the basic/beginner level can do this. A very common exercise my IHSA coach had us do (huntseat or western - the saddle is irrelevant to a balanced position) was stand straight up in the stirrups (not in two-point but completely vertical) while going through walk/trot/canter/trot/walk transitions. If you are correctly balanced with hip, shoulder, and heel in alignment, this exercise is simple. If you are trying to ride in a chair seat, you will fall backwards. If you are pinching with your knees and drawing your lower leg back, you will fall forwards.
18 Likes
You are in the presence of a number of “experts,” not just me. I’m glad you and your trainer are on the same page. It is important that you receive instruction from someone you are comfortable with and trust. You go. No need for snark, I didn’t intend any, though I sense you took it that way. Your trainer is incorrect, by the way, but again, it’s not important if you two are on the same page. Good luck with your dressage journey.
18 Likes
A lot of this sounds familiar for me!! I will say I have only felt completely comfortable and a handful of saddles and unfortunately only one that I have owned… So I will keep this in mind in the future!
2 Likes
I can agree that there is so much more to being balanced in the saddle and really moving with the horse than just where our legs are. For me I’ve always thought there is so much to the pelvis and our core and overall not being stiff. I can agree on that. That being said I do think all our parts matter in that equation.
1 Like
Yes. The pros often show up with big blocks but likely don’t “really” need them yet must feel there is a competitive advantage. As a pro they are experienced enough to pick a saddle that complements them and to find a decent fitter.
Weaker ammies may need or want bigger blocks for physical or emotional reassurance and may indeed use them to avoid getting tossed around. They may also get sold saddles with less than optimum block placement for their body type either second hand or semi custom by a crap local saddle rep. So I feel blocks, their placement use and misuse, is more a live question for ammies who are in the process of figuring out their own personal biomechanics.
That said, doing a sitting extended trot on a giant WB with giant gaits is a feat of athletic strength and skill that indeed most ammies fail to master, which is why statistically most ammies top out at “schooling second.” So it makes sense that the pros are also looking for saddle fits that will make the sitting extended trot more functional. This gait has become bigger and bolder, and more important to the dressage score, over the years. So gear evolves to fit the sport.
There is no shame in this. If you want to jump you get a jump saddle, and I’m sure there’s a competitive advantage to the very popular very expensive newer models of French saddles with grippy seats, and light carbon fiber trees. Indeed, I can two point much more easily in my older jump saddle than in my older dressage saddle.
Even Western saddles have models for every discipline, reining roping cutting barrel racing working ranch long distance back country, etc.
My dressage saddle has modest knee rolls but enough that I can go down the steepest mountain trails I’ve found without feeling I’m going over maresey’s head 
and I am at the point I can sit her biggest balanced trot on hogfuel (soft arena) with the caveat this is a Paint (and may not be truly extended LOL) . There would be a huge learning curve if the universe gifted me access to a WB (I’m trying to manifest an Iberian actually).
So my guess is that some ammies buy built up saddles to address a real weakness they’ve identified in their riding, but if they get the wrong configuration it makes things worse. Also if you have a physical pain or limitation you need to work on that off the horse or it will continue to interrupt your riding. So maybe people hope for too much from their saddles.
8 Likes
Many skilled riders have bucking rolls on their flattish Wade saddles, some of them quite flamboyant–talk about bling. Some race trainers have them on their saddles as well. (affectionally known as dummy pads.) Michael Matz even had a pair on his pancake jumping saddle to pony horses.
The standing straight up in your irons is a time-tested cure for knee pinching, and I have definitely seen it used in dressage as well as h/j.
4 Likes
There are quite a lot of legitimate experts in this forum. Those willing to listen to their advice can learn a lot.
16 Likes
We need Sarah Stetner to chime in.
5 Likes
Expanding on what other posters have said, I’d say saddle design evolved along with the breeding of bigger moving horses with plenty of suspension. Looking back to the days of dressage saddles with pencil knee rolls, you did not see many horses that had the big, extravagant movement of today’s warmbloods. I would use Rembrandt, Nicole Uphoff’s gold medal horse, as an example. He won gold medals because of his precision and he was not a huge mover. In fact, he’d never win today.
In the late 1990’s, it became very fashionable for adult amateurs to buy/import big horses with big movement. They need a little more security in the saddle and saddle companies met that need.
You can argue that riders should develop great seats and perfect balance, but how many American adult amateurs started on the lunge line as kids to develop those perfect seats? How many people now have consistent lunge line lessons with no stirrups and no reins?
My first real dressage saddle was a Keiffer Wein, which had to be ordered from Germany. That was in 1986. It worked for me then with its little knee rolls. I’ve gone through a ton of saddles since then and really like the comfort of a larger knee roll and deep seat as long as the saddle fits my build. To criticize anyone for that choice is so short-sighted.
10 Likes
Or are being sponsored by a company (and can have the saddle adjusted to them).
Some of this debate reminds me of the barefoot running shoe wars within the running community years ago. There was a trend toward minimalist shoes (that didn’t work for all runners, certainly not those with biomechanical flaws) and a claim that running shoes “caused” injuries (even though more, less fitter people are running than before, and people are running longer in life, and shoes may help people who might not have been able to run much at all, previously). Now the trend is tipping to more maximalist, cushioned styles. Fashion as well as function sometimes calls into play, although I also wonder if the types and builds of horses may be a factor.
Back to doing my exercises to keep my leg from slipping back…
5 Likes
Sometimes the placement of the stirrup bar can cause this, if it is occurring on the flat.
Just throwing it out there, I do not wish to make you paranoid!
7 Likes
I do think that might be the issue, but, alas, I’ve never been able to “choose” my saddle, since I’ve always been riding leased horses.
3 Likes
I’ve never done it, but I heard you can put a rein stopper or something on the stirrup bar before putting your stirrup on to move the stirrup location slightly farther back. That might help?
1 Like
If you leg is slipping back youre in a fork seat and gripping with your calfs instead of balancing. Youre tipping forward with the front of your pelvis. You have to lift up from your upper thigh and bring it behind your hip and adjust your stirrip length - youre either too long or too short. This is the opposite problem of a chair seat. Also scoot up and get your crotch against the pommel before fixing your legs and base.
But im sorry if youre a pro and i said that. I didnt read the whole post.
2 Likes
I’m definitely not a pro and very much a work in progress! Getting better, but my calves are indeed very strong from running, and that probably works against me.
2 Likes
Oh yeah i cant run - it shortens my calves amd then they fall out of the stirrups the next day.
1 Like
Well, giving up running is one thing I am not willing to do, even for dressage! And for what it’s worth, I know many dressage and eventing queens who are far better than myself who have run marathons.
I’m sure if I owned my own saddle and horse, it would be less of an issue, but all of are in different states of imperfect situations.
1 Like
Yesterday I was auditing a Mette Rosenkrantz clinic and the older AA in the ring was riding in a saddle with really large blocks that went below her knees. Mette mentioned that the problem she sees is that when the horse is not in self-carriage and is starting to pull the rider out of the tack, there’s a strong temptation to brace against the thigh blocks to anchor down into the saddle, but when that happens, the lower leg comes off when really, the leg needs to be going on and getting the hind legs to step to the rein. I thought that was an interesting idea to add to the conversation.
8 Likes
There are stretches specifically for tightness from running (and sitting in office chairs) and strengthening exercises for muscles not used during riding to keep psoas, piriformis, and hip abductor muscles flexible and strong so both running and horseback riding can be enjoyed without sacrificing one for the other. It helps to find them before the struggle. They are easy to find on YouTube now.
1 Like
