Saddle struggles: big shoulder & wither TB

[laurendrew]

Edited to condense and bring info up to date!

I know there are some saddle gurus who lurk here so I figured I may as well post to see suggestions from anyone who’s had a similarly built horse.

Some background: Enzo is a 10 year old OTTB. I bought him last May and at the time already owned a Devoucoux Chiberta. Even after having it custom reflocked with wool, it caused him back pain so I sold it back in November. Because the billets were fixed to the flap, a line of pressure ran up through them and over his spine.

Here are some updated photos of Enzo’s build:
http://s1123.photobucket.com/user/BeFashionMag/library/Enzo%20conformation

**I ended up ordering a custom Black Country Richochet with wither gussets and a trapezius panel. We tried a couple of different BC models and oddly enough, the Richochet has long tree points and Enzo liked it the best. Would have never thought to try one like that on him, but he loved it! We rode in the test ride for two weeks after our fitting because the rep graciously let us keep it until she sold her other demo and we had to send it back. Waiting for our custom to come in, but highly recommend Black Country for horses with a build like Enzo’s!!

[goodmorning]

I’m not sure on saddle fit, I don’t like the wither clearance & it’s not even girthed up, but for the cost of the Evolution you can get a custom new Black Country or pretty much any other used saddle.

Good luck, saddle fitting & searching is the worst!

[Synthesis]

I’ve had several Perch/TB crosses that inherited the big shoulder/wither combo. The Passier PS tree is something I’ve found consistently successful. The shape, cutback pommel and the very short tree points seem to be a winning combination without having to go custom

[Jleegriffith]

That looks like the majority of the Tb’s that I have come in. The saddle that tends to fit them the best is my county conquest in a narrow with wither gussets and skid row panels. You want the gullet to be wide enough and the wither gussets fill in the hollow spaces around the withers to keep the shoulder from pressing down.

I would say English made saddles tend to fit that shape the best-county, black country, albion, etc

[cyberbay]

Dressage only here, but: My horse, who is a TB and seems to have the same build as yours, went for a long time in a Black Country dressage saddle. He’s now in an Albion dressage saddle, having ‘outgrown’ the BC.

I am very happy myself in the Albion. The Black Country was adequate – I put up with it because it seemed to be good for him, and that was what was most important.

[beowulf]

The Stubben Zaria was made for a back like that :winkgrin:

[IFG]

My daughter’s OTTB is shaped a bit like that with an even flatter back. The German saddles, Passier and Stubben have been fitting him well.

[laurendrew]

Thank you guys!! I’m resigned to the fact that this one won’t work and am going to take wither tracings to a few saddleries this weekend to see what they think.

[Carried_Away]

Another recommendation for Black Country - I have had several hard to fit horses and they worked well for each of them due to the tree shape and customization available in the panels. If you didn’t like the one your trainer had, how about a different model BC? There are many options available, and the people at Trumbull Mtn. are wonderful. Good luck!

[laurendrew]

[QUOTE=goodmorning;8611691]
I’m not sure on saddle fit, I don’t like the wither clearance & it’s not even girthed up, but for the cost of the Evolution you can get a custom new Black Country or pretty much any other used saddle.

Good luck, saddle fitting & searching is the worst![/QUOTE]

Yea, the wither clearance was immediately what rang warning bells when I put it on him It still fits with 2 finger’s width when girthed but it’s not great. This is their “cutback” model too :lol:

And I found it used, I definitely would not be able to afford a brand new Evolution haha

[laurendrew]

[QUOTE=Carried Away;8612330]
Another recommendation for Black Country - I have had several hard to fit horses and they worked well for each of them due to the tree shape and customization available in the panels. If you didn’t like the one your trainer had, how about a different model BC? There are many options available, and the people at Trumbull Mtn. are wonderful. Good luck![/QUOTE]

Thanks! I’m hopefully getting a wither tracing tonight to take to Jay at Trumbull tomorrow.

I generally prefer the balance and feel of French saddles, usually because of the narrower twist- I have very narrow hips and had surgery last year to resuspend some of my pelvic organs, and still have some leftover problems from that including a slightly twisted pelvis and pain in one hip. (…sadly, I’m 23 and have the body of an 80 year old haha) If I can find a British/German made saddle with a comfortable enough seat then I’ll be all for it, haha.

[FancyIllusions]

Just chiming in to add that, like you, I was always a lover of the French and German saddles. My new TB is built like yours and she definitely did not like them. I tried several different options and try as I might they would not work. I had a saddle fitter come out who suggested a few options, the only one of which worked being a Black Country Ricochet. I used it for a brief trial and my mare was remarkable with it. Almost a totally different horse. I ordered one brand new with a more forward flap to fit me properly, and I cannot wait for its arrival in two weeks.

[Belmont]

My withery, big shouldered guy’s life was changed with an Albion. I don’t think I will ever own another type of saddle… Hopefully!

[goodmorning]

Re Stubben: Looked at new Stubbens but the trees were ultimately too curvy & still not my type of ride. OP, I’m not sure if you horse has a curvy or flat back but something to keep in mind. Black Country can do whatever type of tree you need, and if you’re horse isn’t fitting in French saddles because they are too curvy (I have no idea if this is the case just throwing it out there), then I am not sure a Stubben would work. Human fit is very personal for a myriad of reasons, but, I still do not like the balance of these saddles. Cool technology. They do seem to work for a lot of TBs though.

[laurendrew]

[QUOTE=FancyIllusions;8612558]
Just chiming in to add that, like you, I was always a lover of the French and German saddles. My new TB is built like yours and she definitely did not like them. I tried several different options and try as I might they would not work. I had a saddle fitter come out who suggested a few options, the only one of which worked being a Black Country Ricochet. I used it for a brief trial and my mare was remarkable with it. Almost a totally different horse. I ordered one brand new with a more forward flap to fit me properly, and I cannot wait for its arrival in two weeks.[/QUOTE]

I’ve actually never liked German saddles, haha- seat was always too hard! And good to hear- I have 2 BC jump saddles to try on him, so hopefully one fits! They both have a wither gusset and trapezius panels. I think one is the Ricochet and one is the Quantum.

Now that I’ve had to do all this research into saddles, it baffles me that there are so few companies that do the types of panel customization that a lot of horses would benefit from. Because even though I know most bigger-name brands are catering towards the round warmblood shape, I’ve seen some warmbloods with withers that rival Enzo’s haha

[laurendrew]

[QUOTE=goodmorning;8612782]
Re Stubben: Looked at new Stubbens but the trees were ultimately too curvy & still not my type of ride. OP, I’m not sure if you horse has a curvy or flat back but something to keep in mind. Black Country can do whatever type of tree you need, and if you’re horse isn’t fitting in French saddles because they are too curvy (I have no idea if this is the case just throwing it out there), then I am not sure a Stubben would work. Human fit is very personal for a myriad of reasons, but, I still do not like the balance of these saddles. Cool technology. They do seem to work for a lot of TBs though.[/QUOTE]

I took a Frank Baines Reflex dressage saddle to try on him and the tree was much too curvy, the back panels weren’t even touching his back when he walked. So I am a little worried about trying a Stubben because I could pay to have one of their reps come out, but it might be a waste if their tree shape isn’t going to work for him. I know Dover has some demos, so I might see if they have any in stock to try. The plus side is that Stubben said they might be able to take my Evolution as a trade-in and the difference for a full custom would be negligible to me.

The Black Country ones I’ve tried on him definitely sit better, at least the ones made with the flatter tree. I’d say his back is more level than it is curvy. The Antares rocked only a little amount, but it’s not something I could correct with a shim pad because adding any padding underneath makes it even tighter up front

[laurendrew]

[QUOTE=Belmont;8612681]
My withery, big shouldered guy’s life was changed with an Albion. I don’t think I will ever own another type of saddle… Hopefully![/QUOTE]

I haven’t minded the Albions I’ve sat in, but sadly the only ones I ever see for sale are all 17.5/18 seat or a wide tree. I was able to try one of their medium dressage saddle on Enzo back in October and it was a pretty good fit, but I was swimming in it as it was a 17.5". I often wish my butt wasn’t non-existent so that finding a saddle that fit us both would be easier!!

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Stackhouse…I like a narrow twist too. My one TB is VERY hard to fit…and I’m not so easy either. Love my Stackhouse.

I have an ancient Albion…that needs bit of work but still going strong after 20+ years. I don’t think they make them like that any more!

[laurendrew]

Well, hearing back from the Stubben rep I was talking to, turns out they couldn’t take my saddle as a trade-in and have it cover enough of the cost of a custom fitted one for me to afford it.

Tried two Black Country Quantums on him last night, one was MW and one was a M, both with trapezius panels and wither gussets. From the ground and girthed up, they seemed better than anything else, but I felt a little bridging in the middle under the flap. I decided to try the Medium Quantum first- Oddly, he immediately hollowed his back, kept trying to invert, was going sideways, stopped and didn’t want to move forward… Ugh. Edit to add: wasn’t the saddle. Poor guy was foot and back sore on top of a broken tooth and ulcers. So we’ll try out the Quantum again when he’s feeling better!

I’m also going to have my vet scope him for ulcers to rule that out, because while I treated him with Abler back in January, he’s been uncharacteristically bad under saddle and on the ground lately.

[riverinthewoods]

New to the forums but have been a lurker for quite a bit

I just purchased a 10 year old OTTB gelding almost a month ago. I’m hoping to get into eventing with him and I’m hoping his laid back attitude will help to boost my adult ammy confidence issues!

Unfortunately, right off the bat we realized we had saddle issues. My Ovation Evolution that has fit literally every horse and pony I’ve tried it on, was definitely not a good fit for my new guy. I also knew it was time for an upgrade (to something, newer and a little bigger) and had a saddle fitter come out.

My guy has probably one of the biggest withers I’ve ever seen, and while I don’t think his shoulders are very big - the way he is built the shoulders definitely worried me in terms of finding a saddle fit. I knew that due to the above and his ‘long’ body type, whatever saddle I may end up with would probably sit farther back on him and I would more than likely need a breastplate.

The first saddle I tried was a cutback pommel. No thank you…it didn’t fit me well and I felt like I couldn’t even sit properly in it. But the next saddle I tried was a Prestige S1. I’m not sure of your budget, as these get pretty up there in price, but this saddle was an eye opener for me and needless to say, I fell in love with the most expensive one! It actually has two trees, one that sits farther back on him and then the typical tree. We have lots of clearance in the wither and the shoulder and the saddle is basically guaranteed to fit my other horse, a bulkier OTTB mare, and pretty much any other horse. It’s definitely worth taking a look at. I was able to contact my Prestige dealer in my state and he (thankfully) had a 2015 demo that I was able to try and purchased for less than the full price for an essentially brand new saddle.

So far - I love it. I’m hoping to possibly get a dressage saddle for him in the future and would definitely consider the same brand.