Saddlebred from the show ring--please advise!

[SaudiHunter]

I am hoping that some can offer some guidance and suggestions for me. I posted last summer about my Hackney pony and got some very good perspective. (After about 5 or 6 months of ground work and a move to a new farm, Tempest is doing wonderfully! We spend many enjoyable hours together both alone and in company of other friends in my road cart or spring wagon, and he is so smart and energetic…he really is the apple of my eye!)

In February I met an extremely personable and handsome dappled grey Saddlebred at New Holland. He had show shoes on his front feet and was barefoot behind, and someone had cut the silver skirt of his tail. He was very underweight but otherwise healthy, so my friend the BO and I got him.

He spent the winter eating hay, being groomed, going for walks when the weather permitted. He got his first set of shoes on and had his teeth floated. (The dentist said he had a lot of sharp points.) I have lunged him in a surcingle and loose side reins and have taught him voice commands. I got him a harness and started to lunge him in a crupper, which took some getting used to (very athletic bucks) and added the breeching when he no longer reacted to the crupper. We have done some long lining, and recently I put his driving bridle on him and started to ground drive him, both in our work area and down the farm lane and back.

Ideally, I’d like him to be a pleasure driving horse, and I intend to start riding him eventually. I figure that I am going to let him tell me what he likes to do.

The problem (if it is one) is that he is my first Saddlebred and I have no experience with them at all. I grew up riding as a 4-H’er and then on to showing hunters and later jumpers…and my driving experience, aside from my Hackney pony, was as an standardbred driver at fairs and some amateur races at Rosecroft. I read a lot and attended Devon this year to watch the Saddlebred and Hackney classes. I also read the CD-L and have posted some questions about how to proceed with the grey from here.

I’ve been told by a few people on CD-L that it would be unsafe to drive him without a sidecheck because that is what he was used to in the show ring.

I am not even sure if he WAS driven. I am simply deducing that he was a show horse because of the type of shoes he arrived in at the sale. He was ridden bareback through the ring, and I don’t have papers on him.

I suppose I am looking for some light shed on what types of training experiences he is likely to have had if he was a show horse. I board him with an Amishman who has Morgans, so while he is very good help on certain points of driving and offers very practical advice, he is not familiar with the tack and training of show saddlebreds.

Sorry that this is long and rambling. Thank you for reading to the end! I really love this horse (we named him Dorian Grey) and I want to do well by him.

[Renae]

Greys are not very common in the Saddlebred breed. If you know what year he was foaled (or have a good guess) there are sleuths that would probably be able to track down your horse’s ID for you. For example in 2003 there were only 19 grey male Saddlebreds registered with ASHA. Wet down your horse’s face and legs if he has gone white to see if there were any markings. The only caveat is are you absolutely 100% sure he is a Saddlebred and not a Saddlebred/Arabian cross? Some Half-Arabs/Half-Saddlebreds look an awful lot like Saddlebreds, and greys are considerably more common there. Also common training practices are very different between Saddlebred and Arabian barns.

I’ve been told by a few people on CD-L that it would be unsafe to drive him without a sidecheck because that is what he was used to in the show ring.

Not true. When it comes to Saddlebreds I would not rely the CD-L list. Saddlebreds have to be shown in an over check, not a side check. When working horses many trainers do not use a check when jogging (driving a horse for conditioning). Without knowing your horse’s background assume nothing.

If the horse was broke to drive he is very used to wearing a crupper, but has probably never worn breeching. 95% of Saddlebred show horses are broke to drive at some point in their training.

For riding and driving in this horse’s past he was likely worked in some type of snaffle always with a running martingale of this type http://www.fennells.com/store/products.asp?h1=376&i=160&buy=376&Table=Products&css=&i1=Horse+Equipment&r1=154&i2=Training+Equipment&r2=160&i3=&r3=376&sdk=Martingales If the horse was shown under saddle he knows how to wear a full bridle, however don’t assume that just because he had show shoes on that he ever actually made it to the show ring. He most likely has never worn a liverpool driving bit, so the idea of being guided from a leverage bit may be a new one to him if that is the type of bit you want to use.

[californianinkansas]

Thank you for rescuing him.

[blairasb]

My thoughts are this:

1. congrats and hope you learn to love your ASB like I do mine! I’ve dabbled in other breeds here and there and nothing does it for me in terms of a willing partner who will offer you the moon on a silver platter if you do right by them quite like a Saddlebred.

2. Depends on where the horse came from as to whether he’ll have spent most of his driving time in a sidecheck. He very well may not be as side or overcheck dependent as expected. the trainer I worked for, the horse usually just wore a regular snaffle bridle of some type and we added a blinker hood- the only ones we used side or overcheck bridles on were ones we were getting ready to show in driving classes, or the rare one where the horse was needing a reminder about keeping it’s head in a reasonable position. For the majority of horses, headset isn’t the big priority when jogging- it’s a means of putting on miles and getting them fit

3. BUT because of his unknown past, I wouldn’t assume he DOES know how to drive (I have one who came from a trainer who drives E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G before it starts under saddle. If I bought a horse I knew was his from a sale, I would be absolutely certain that it would drive. But in this case, Mr Horse gets REAL claustrophobic in the shafts so he’s one of the few who doesn’t.) absolutely and would start him over from scratch using a logical progression up to hooking him. If you do that, whether he is used to driving in a sidecheck or not really isn’t going to matter.

[sdlbredfan]

That is a very good point above. Just because this is a Saddlebred does not automatically mean driving was part of its educational background. The good news is, Saddlebreds are usually very eager to please, which makes them trainable. Once a Saddlebred horse knows what you want, he or she will (99% of the time anyway) attempt to comply.

[Marla_100]

I agree w/ others who say start over on the ground for all training. I’d guess he was NOT trained to drive w/ his reaction to the crupper… My 2 yr. old ASB came to me w/ questionable training but when we put a crupper on the first time, No reaction whatsoever. He just continued his longlining as he did before the crupper.
Regarding his background- there used to be a breeder/trainer in Alabama that had a gray stallion and raised ASB for sporthorse activities. I think the farm name was Long Grey Lines or something similar. Not sure if they’re still active.
thank you for rescuing him and good luck with your training.

[Marla_100]

Also wanted to add… Can you age him from his teeth? If he ages to be 10-12 yrs. old, this may be a clue to his identity…Go on YouTube- 9 yr. old gray gelding that sold in 2011 due to owner’s health. Ad says he was a show horse and a terrific Trail Horse also. Reg. name- Banbury’s Highland Mist, barn name Connor. Lovely big dappled gray w/ nice movement.

You can also just google gray saddlebred for sale and his video shows up.
good Luck, it would be great to track down who this boy is.

[Renae]

Remember when sleuthing as to a horse’s identity it is important to get details about the horse and keep guesses to PMs.

[SaudiHunter]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply, especially Renae and blairasb.

I did not think that grey was a very common color, so perhaps that might help in locating him. It is possible that he is a cross with something. As I said, I am new to ASB’s, so I am certainly not well-placed to make accurate guesses as to his breeding. Unfortunately I can’t post pictures themselves, but I could put a link up if anyone would be interested in seeing him.

He was sold as a 5 year-old this year, and the dentist treating him concurs that is about what his age is.

[SaudiHunter]

[QUOTE=sdlbredfan;7045194]
The good news is, Saddlebreds are usually very eager to please, which makes them trainable. Once a Saddlebred horse knows what you want, he or she will (99% of the time anyway) attempt to comply.[/QUOTE]

I have noticed this. From what I have seen so far, he does certainly try to please and seems to enjoy doing what I ask. I am pleased with his progress in responding to voice commands while lunging. He also made good progress in a few sessions working on halting and standing while I walked around him and fiddled with the lines and such.

[Renae]

If your horse is a registered Saddlebred and is registered as a grey (sometimes people make a mistake when registering a grey foal and register it as some other color) I don’t think he will be hard to put a name to. There were only 14 grey male Saddlebreds registered in 2008. 1 is deceased, 1 is in England, so that narrows it to 12 already. If you have a link to some photos that would be great!

[SaudiHunter]

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10201211348827099.1073741828.1272280000&type=3

[Plainandtall]

I don’t think your album is set to public.

[SaudiHunter]

You’re right, it wasn’t. Now it is fixed.

[red_mares]

Ditto what Renae & others said, but also think along the lines of OTTB. There a a lot of similarities between many show barns & the race track in how they handle horses.

Crossties - not so much, the training barns I’ve been in prefer to tie them in the stall and tack them up.

Lead shanks w/chains - many barns put a chain over the nose as a matter of course, the horses expect it.

General “go” attitude - both OTTBs and ASBs from the showring are expected to go, and are bred to go.

As to CD-L, the last thing I saw on there about show ring driving, was with respect to one of the show ring disasters. One (know-it-all) poster claimed that if show horses were shown with a properly fitting breeching, they couldn’t kick & disaster would have been averted. I know of a hackney pony that can kick quite well while wearing a breeching. Take anything they say about ring horses with a grain of salt.

[vtdobes]

[QUOTE=SaudiHunter;7045679]

He was sold as a 5 year-old this year, and the dentist treating him concurs that is about what his age is.[/QUOTE]

To register a Saddlebred DNA typing is required. I would contact the Association to inquire about DNA typing your horse to see if there is a match.

This is done quite often through the Morgan Association. All foals registered since 2001 have a DNA type on file. So, if you (for example) bought a horse who you thought was a Morgan and was sold as a 5 yr old you could order a DNA test kit through the AMHA and see if the type matched any DNA type on file at UC Davis for Morgans.

[vtdobes]

[QUOTE=red mares;7046256]

As to CD-L, the last thing I saw on there about show ring driving, was with respect to one of the show ring disasters. One (know-it-all) poster claimed that if show horses were shown with a properly fitting breeching, they couldn’t kick & disaster would have been averted. I know of a hackney pony that can kick quite well while wearing a breeching. Take anything they say about ring horses with a grain of salt.[/QUOTE]

Ha! My mare can kick quite well with breeching AND a kicking strap!

[Renae]

[QUOTE=vtdobes;7047776]
To register a Saddlebred DNA typing is required. I would contact the Association to inquire about DNA typing your horse to see if there is a match.

This is done quite often through the Morgan Association. All foals registered since 2001 have a DNA type on file. So, if you (for example) bought a horse who you thought was a Morgan and was sold as a 5 yr old you could order a DNA test kit through the AMHA and see if the type matched any DNA type on file at UC Davis for Morgans.[/QUOTE]

As far as I know they do not have the capability to take mystery horse X’s DNA and bippity bop it into a computer and come up with a horse’s ID (I don’t think any registry has their technology up to that level). They can verify if a horse is or is not a specific horse, but that is the extent of it.

[D1nOnlyRocketPony]

[QUOTE=Renae;7048383]
As far as I know they do not have the capability to take mystery horse X’s DNA and bippity bop it into a computer and come up with a horse’s ID (I don’t think any registry has their technology up to that level). They can verify if a horse is or is not a specific horse, but that is the extent of it.[/QUOTE]

Actually, they can do a DNA reversal, we’ve done it twice on rescues we’ve gotten in. You’ll need to contact ASHA directly. Also, PM me for a contact who can help with the reversal process (they know who to speak with at ASHA).

[Renae]

[QUOTE=D1nOnlyRocketPony;7048395]
Actually, they can do a DNA reversal, we’ve done it twice on rescues we’ve gotten in. You’ll need to contact ASHA directly. Also, PM me for a contact who can help with the reversal process (they know who to speak with at ASHA).[/QUOTE]

Well that’s news to me. I had no idea that they had made technology improvements to that level. How much did it cost you? If this can be done now why does everyone still fuss around with trying to go through the registry database and guess at who a horse may be based on year of birth, color and markings? Why don’t any of the registries have “Reverse DNA Look Up” on their Services and Fees lists?

If this is available why does Saddlebred Rescue charge a $50 donation for them to attempt to help you find out your horse’s ID? http://forum.saddlebredrescue.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1562