Egad, it seems like these days everyone is on a hunt for saddles and can’t find anything that fits. It wasn’t that bad about 15-20 years ago. It seems that all the saddle companies are sticking with a tree that they think will be able to fit all horses. None of them are specializing in a type. It’s about making their saddles generic, and the saddles are failing to fit a large group of horses. It’s pretty crazy. Kind of like when Tipperary decided to change the shape of their helmet from oval (and taking a large share of that market) and going more round, then going for something in between. Honestly, why not take your market share with one of your designs and just charge more? Kind of like Charles Owen, to continue with the helmet example.
I’m not sure I get your post.
Custom Saddlery, for example, has like 6 vastly different tree fits and they are some of the most popular dressage saddles today. Passier is still using the trees they always used though riders are now demanding to not have to ride on a board plank, which I can understand.
I think what people are struggling with is that saddles cost way, way more than they used to and a budget of say, $1500 is not going to get you a lot of choice - and yes, the cheaper saddles ARE made on more standard fits, because part of what you pay for with a more expensive saddle is the higher production costs of producing more fits/options.
But assuming you have a sufficient budget, there’s tons of fits and panel options available as well as fits for the rider across all the high end/custom makes.
I’ve been looking at saddles and many are medium wide and then they want to flock or pad them to fit, they don’t want to totally customize them. They have fewer widths and the gullet is the same on all, no matter the head plate is–and that’s limited. I think when there were fewer saddler companies there were more options in some ways. I’m surprised that with supply and demand so many can charge such outrageous amounts of money. So I totally agree with the sticker shock.
There are plenty out there with adjustable trees that work fine.
Not really, Mondo. Unless you want a Bates/Wintec or Thorowgood.
[QUOTE=Velvet;8988364]
Egad, it seems like these days everyone is on a hunt for saddles and can’t find anything that fits. It wasn’t that bad about 15-20 years ago. [/QUOTE]
Is it that the saddle companies have changed their product, or is it that we didn’t know nearly as much about fitting saddles 20 years ago and what was considered a “good fit” then is not a “good fit” now? I think it’s a little of both.
I think there are companies out there that have a fairly good range of configurations, but the more we learn about fitting saddles to horses AND riders, the more complicated things get. The “fully custom” option has not yet been mastered, if you ask me. Just look at all the threads about failed custom saddles on COTH.
I keep thinking WOW is the closest to being able to (someday) offer fully custom saddles that you can make sure fit on your own. I think one of these days they might offer more tree options as well as a better range of flaps, etc. When that day comes, I’ll be shopping with them. 
I just don’t see the current ones as really having enough options. From what I’ve been seeing, many are limiting their styles and copying those of other saddle makers in order to grab a share of that market. That’s what bothers me.
Oh, and I wonder if the truly custom ones are often failures due to bad saddle fitters? There seem to be a LOT of them out there. Yes, there are some really great ones, but many are just not good at it. No feel, and just trying to push something to make money.
[QUOTE=Velvet;8988364]
Egad, it seems like these days everyone is on a hunt for saddles and can’t find anything that fits. It wasn’t that bad about 15-20 years ago. It seems that all the saddle companies are sticking with a tree that they think will be able to fit all horses. None of them are specializing in a type. It’s about making their saddles generic, and the saddles are failing to fit a large group of horses. It’s pretty crazy. Kind of like when Tipperary decided to change the shape of their helmet from oval (and taking a large share of that market) and going more round, then going for something in between. Honestly, why not take your market share with one of your designs and just charge more? Kind of like Charles Owen, to continue with the helmet example.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you.
I had a Stubben I bought back in the late 80’s. It cost me $1000 back then. I swear I could ride a huge variety of horses in that saddle with no issues at all. I could kick myself for selling it in 2008.
They don’t make them like they used to that is for sure.
If you need a narrow saddle, and a sales rep is trying to sell you a medium wide with the promise of padding it up, just walk away. Yes, IMO, the brand reps will tend to over promise on fit, and they often aren’t real saddle fitters, just trained by the company.
IME, the people who really have trouble finding an English saddle are those with wide and low-withered smaller stock horses, or with Iberian horses. IME, it’s harder to find a Western saddle for a high-withered “English” type horse.
There’s a related thread on one of the other subgroups, from a re-rider, about when did saddle fitting get so complicated? Some of the things different people responded were: we always put effort into saddle fit, not a new thing; or, we didn’t really know about saddle fit back in the day, or we were more willing to pad up with things to make it fit; or, English horses were more of a TB type back then, so saddles were more likely to be a tolerable fit on multiple horses.
Maybe what you are seeing is that the trees are getting wider to fit warmbloods, and you are having trouble fitting a TB?
I have to say when I was saddle shopping a few years ago, the better quality brands all had narrow, medium and wide advertised. I notice that the low-end Greenhawk saddles only do medium, and only do one seat size. But that’s low end, store brand, off the shelf, and not something I’d consider (you can do much better buying good stuff second hand obviously).
I also think that what has happened, is that while everyone knows saddle fit is important now, most horse owners don’t really know what that entails, how to measure or check it, or how to see it (or how to see bad fit). This makes saddle fit seem very mysterious, and it means that horse owners don’t know who to trust, or when they have a reliable fitter, because they can’t evaluate the work the fitter is doing. So it all gets needlessly complicated, mysterious, and fraught, and people will spend $6000 on a semi-custom saddle only to find out a year later that it doesn’t really fit them or the horse.
Add to this that many horses didn’t read the saddle fitting manuals. Bridging - such a sin, OR does your horse love it? I think it’s more about marketing than anything - here are the “off the shelf” solutions, but if those don’t work, you can pay thousands more for a custom fit! But I can’t complain about any of our saddles, honestly, after seeing the saddles at QH Congress - $21,000 for all the ostrich, silver and ornate detailing you could EVER want. They did have financing available, lol. I wonder if their fits were only FQHB and SQHBs???
I’m having a little bit of a tough time with someone saying that WOW doesn’t offer enough options when they have two head shapes and something like 30 different sizes. Then there are different seat depths, tabbed or untabbed panels, blocks…I’m not sure that’s a brand that can be accused of having too few options.
Boy, I can’t disagree with you more.
I think that saddle makers offer far more options than you could ever get before! For both horses and riders. As someone with a “freakishly long” femur (according to one coach), I love the fact that I can now buy a saddle that accommodates my leg without my knee hanging over the flap.
Also, there are lots of saddles that have adjustable trees beyond Wintec/Bates and Thorowgood:
Kieffer makes a tree adjustable using infra-red technology. They can be adjusted lots of times without sacrificing the integrity of the tree. I believe that many Prestige saddles are also made on a similar tree.
Hastilow makes nice saddles with interchangeable gullets.
Pesoa makes saddles with interchangeable gullets.
Collegiate makes saddles with interchangeable gullets
Schleese saddles can be adjusted.
Actually, almost any saddle can be adjusted +/1 one size by a saddler with a tree press.
As for sticker shock, yes and no. The used market is flooded with high end saddles that can be bought very reasonably, and if you prefer British or German saddles, there are some very nice well made ones that aren’t anywhere close to the cost of a French saddle. I LOVE my Jeffries JMX Monoflap jumping saddle, and I think it retailed for $2500. I think the new Kieffers offer very good value in the $3K range.
I suppose I have the opposite problem as most people – I am always finding more saddles that I want to try/buy :).
Velvet I think you need to find a different saddle fitter. Almost none of what you are saying is accurate. It sounds like someone has been trying to sell you a load of BS.
Does anyone remember the days when you put a saddle on the horse, and if it cleared the withers and you could run a whip through the gullet from back to front and it went through cleanly (i.e., saddle wasn’t pressing on horse’s spine), the saddle was considered to “fit?” The Not So Good Old Days. LOL
Further to that list, Prestige are adjustable and I’ve found them to be miraculous as far as fitting multiple horses.
Patrick Saddlery makes adjustable tree saddles on request. Fairfax uses the same tree as thorowgood with more rider features.
Ha ha. Yes, Sandy M. When I started riding dressage some 40 years ago, here in little old Idaho, you could get a Stubben, a Passier or a Kieffer…and you LIKED it. It is almost nauseating to think of starting a new saddle search.
Susan
You can still get your hands in those old stubbenschool, kyra. My jump saddle is 35 years old now. That saddle they will have to pry out of my cold dead hands. I will never replace it.
[QUOTE=Sandy M;8988599]
Does anyone remember the days when you put a saddle on the horse, and if it cleared the withers and you could run a whip through the gullet from back to front and it went through cleanly (i.e., saddle wasn’t pressing on horse’s spine), the saddle was considered to “fit?” The Not So Good Old Days. LOL[/QUOTE]
This was basically what we did 20 years ago. Cleared the withers and was relatively “level” front to back? It fits. If it wasn’t level, you just added one of those foam wedges to fix it. I also don’t remember rider fit being any sort of concern, as long as your knee wasn’t over the flap and the seat was big enough it “fit”.
I think sometimes too many options is just as bad as not enough.
I’m early her not understanding or not agreeing with this post. Are you saying that most saddle brands only come in a medium-wide? Because Inhavr bought three saddles in the past 4 years (long story) and I think every brand I looked at was available in narrow, medium and wide tree widths, and some with even more options, not including the variety of flap lengths and seat sizes.
What brands have you been trying?
