Safe sport - Duty to Warn?

[alter0001]

WWYD

Disclaimer: I’m going to try to leave out as many identifying details as possible.

Is there a “duty to warn” under safe sport? I know, not my circus, not my monkeys. But it’s not that cut and dry. A junior rider recently left my current barn to go ride with another trainer. Which is fine - I understand - it happens all the time.

However, over a decade ago, said trainer sent me messages (I was a junior at the time) and made inappropriate sexual remarks. SS did an investigation and the resolution was that since it didn’t involve a USEF competition or rule, and it was pre-safe sport, there would be no sanctions.

Today I went back and looked at the screenshots from when it happened and they are pretty gross - not criminal - but absolutely inappropriate.

Should I reach out to her mother? I wasn’t particularly close with them but was certainly friendly and have mom’s number. Part of me says no, not my problem don’t get involved and I’ll look bitter if I do. But on the other hand I would feel terrible if something happened that I somehow could’ve prevented or warned someone about in advance.

[Hoofbeat_Heartbeat]

As a parent, I would 100% want to know if this behavior occurred amongst an individual that had any kind of interaction with my child.

[LaurieB]

I’m also a parent and I absolutely think you should reach out to the girl’s mother.

[Aussie_2020]

People always say they would want to be told but then you tell them and they get mad at you. I’m thinking of women with cheating men, I learned not to say a peep. But maybe it’s different with kids. Dunno, but I’d sure be careful.

[Demerara_Stables]

Absolutely you should say something. Maybe they blow you off but maybe that means you save the girl from a lot of trauma.

[Theotherrider]

Wait a minute–sorry temporarily hijacking your thread–this infraction occurred before Safe Sport and so SS doesn’t want to touch it now? They certainly were willing to touch Rob Gage and George Morris, even though those infractions occurred far prior to Safe Sport inception!

And yes, I think you should tell the mother of that child. And present copies of your texts or screenshots from that trainer. They might yell at you or think you’re just bitter, or put you down, but they will be better off with the information then not. And if they cross you, that’s on them not on you!
Good luck.

[MissMillyMolly]

Even if they are not happy now, if that creep strikes again they will know they have someone to corroborate a report down the line.
I’m sorry you have to stick your neck out after you did nothing wrong. It’s not fair that there could be blowback on you, when you are clearly a victim of a predator. Makes me sad that this happens so often and wanted to let you know it’s a brave thing to do.

[paw]

There is no affirmative “duty to warn” in SafeSport as far as I know. Certainly not from barm mates.

However, it might be a kindness (even if not well-received) to let the parents know that there have been dubious things in this person’s past.

[trubandloki]

I feel like you are in a no win situation here.

Nothing you do will be right.
If you do nothing and this scum does something to this girl, you will be wrong for not saying something. If you say something people are going to insist you are saying something because you lost a client and are trying to ruin this wonderful trainer for no reason.

If you reach out, I think it has to be to the parents.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I agree it’s interesting USEF is not sanctioning because it’s pre-Safe Sport. The only rationale I can see (which I absolutely don’t defend, btw) is that it sounds like the OP wasn’t directly “harmed” because it sounds like she didn’t ride or train under Gross Trainer, just got the inappropriate screenshots.

I’m so glad you saved them! I would reach out to the parents and say something like:

“Hey! I’m so glad your daughter is moving on in her career and I really enjoyed working with her. Unfortunately, I had a very negative experience with Gross Trainer. Can you contact me briefly and allow me to explain why?” Ideally, I would like to show them the screenshots personally, without necessarily giving them the receipts, without a lot of emotional commentary. Hopefully, they will make the right decision.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

I think this is a circumstance where you have to decide what you’re ok living with…

If you found out a few years later that kid was molested or assaulted, or went through the same text message ick, would you be able to live with yourself for not saying something? And what if it spiraled into an eating disorder or drug dependency? Would you feel responsible because you stayed quiet?

If the answer is YES, then it’s time to pull their mother aside… show all your evidence and say, “It is completely up to you about next steps and I’ll respect your decision. This will be the last time I bring this up to you or will say anything in a public setting. Obviously, if another person that I know also has a child come train with this trainer, I may also have a similar discussion because I could not forgive myself if my silence resulted in this behavior continuing.” Leave it there. Get the mother face to face and away from the farm. Go for coffee or try to ask them to take a walk around the block of something. Let them decide what is best for their kid.

[leighbo009]

@Theotherrider

Wait a minute–sorry temporarily hijacking your thread–this infraction occurred before Safe Sport and so SS doesn’t want to touch it now? They certainly were willing to touch Rob Gage and George Morris, even though those infractions occurred far prior to Safe Sport inception!

@Impractical_Horsewoman

I agree it’s interesting USEF is not sanctioning because it’s pre-Safe Sport.

I read the OP’s message as she reported it to USEF prior to safe sport (safe sport has only been in effect since 2017), so they didn’t do anything. I do wonder if OP could report it now & have a different outcome.

[trubandloki]

@leighbo009

I read the OP’s message as she reported it to USEF prior to safe sport (safe sport has only been in effect since 2017), so they didn’t do anything. I do wonder if OP could report it now & have a different outcome.

The OP specifically says that Safe Sport did an investigation. How does that mean they did not report it to actual Safe Sport?

@alter0001

However, over a decade ago, said trainer sent me messages (I was a junior at the time) and made inappropriate sexual remarks. SS did an investigation and the resolution was that since it didn’t involve a USEF competition or rule, and it was pre-safe sport, there would be no sanctions.

[2bayboys]

The OP says that SS did an investigation and didn’t move forward with it because the infractions were pre-SS and didn’t occur in connection with USEF events. However, SS covers activity outside of USEF events and certainly investigates incidents that occurred prior to its inception, so I’m not sure what to think about this.

To the OP, I would absolutely present your evidence to the parents involved with this child.

[alter0001]

SS investigated it many years later as part of a complaint filed by someone else against this person.

SS acknowledged that the conduct was inappropriate but noted no sanctions would be imposed and reasoned as follows:

“The only USEF standards in effect at the time, the 1959 USEF Rule Book, only addresses misconduct during a competition. Since the text messages were sent in 20xx and do not relate to a USEF competition, no USEF standards, rules, or policies were violated.”

As previously stated I’m not going to get into great detail as the investigation has been concluded and retaliation is a very real concern.

[kenyarider]

Yes, as a USEF member subject to safe sport, you are a mandated reporter. So telling someone at SS or you could be in trouble for that.

[trubandloki]

@kenyarider

Yes, as a USEF member subject to safe sport, you are a mandated reporter. So telling someone at SS or you could be in trouble for that.

The OP did tell Safe Sport. They are not asking about that.

[kenyarider]

Replying to person who said there was no duty. USEF website: All USEF members and participants must report to the U.S. Center for SafeSport conduct of which they become aware that could constitute (a) sexual misconduct, (b) misconduct that is reasonably related to the underlying allegation of sexual misconduct, and © retaliation related to an allegation of sexual misconduct. This report must be made within 24 hours of learning about the alleged misconduct.

Importantly, the obligation to report requires reporting any conduct that comes to a member’s or participant’s attention, which if true, would violate the U.S. Center for SafeSport Code or USEF Safe Sport Policy.

Individuals should not investigate or attempt to evaluate the credibility or validity of allegations involving sexual misconduct, as a condition of reporting to the U.S. Center for SafeSport.

[trubandloki]

@kenyarider

Replying to person who said there was no duty. USEF website: All USEF members and participants must report to the U.S. Center for SafeSport conduct of which they become aware that could constitute (a) sexual misconduct, (b) misconduct that is reasonably related to the underlying allegation of sexual misconduct, and © retaliation related to an allegation of sexual misconduct. This report must be made within 24 hours of learning about the alleged misconduct.

Importantly, the obligation to report requires reporting any conduct that comes to a member’s or participant’s attention, which if true, would violate the U.S. Center for SafeSport Code or USEF Safe Sport Policy.

Individuals should not investigate or attempt to evaluate the credibility or validity of allegations involving sexual misconduct, as a condition of reporting to the U.S. Center for SafeSport.

That person was answering the OP’s question about telling the mother of this child, not about reporting to Safe Sport.

[Rel6]

@Theotherrider

Wait a minute–sorry temporarily hijacking your thread–this infraction occurred before Safe Sport and so SS doesn’t want to touch it now? They certainly were willing to touch Rob Gage and George Morris, even though those infractions occurred far prior to Safe Sport inception!

The conduct George Morris and Robert Gage were accused of was unlawful under rules existing at the time it was committed. The conduct OP is talking about wasn’t. That is the difference.

For SafeSport to be able to do anything, the conduct must have been unlawful under criminal and/or civil laws that existed at the time of the conduct. The conduct OP reported would violate SafeSport rules that exist today, but because they didn’t exist at the time the messages were sent, SafeSport cannot retroactively apply them to the scenario. It sounds like SafeSport investigated and tried to figure out what rules this conduct would have potentially violated at the time it was committed (misconduct during a competition) and those did not apply to the specific situation. So their hands were tied.

Robert Gage and George Morris were accused of and punished for conduct that was unlawful when the conduct was committed. The issue isn’t that SafeSport, the organization, didn’t exist so they can’t do anything about conduct that occurred before. The issue is that the rules SafeSport created that specifically prohibit the sending of messages OP received did not exist, and therefore technically what the trainer did was not unlawful.

Hope that makes sense.