Safe sport - Duty to Warn?

[MapleFarm]

I agree with this! I would reach out and say something like that - “hey, I just wanted to reach out and let you know that when I was at an age similar to your daughter, I had a negative / inappropriate experience with Nasty Trainer. I would like to keep this private, but I would be happy to discuss in more detail should you wish.”

The you’ve warned them and they can get more detail in person. I wouldn’t want to send the screenshots in case they were sent on.

I don’t think there is a “legal” duty via SS since they have already seen this evidence, but I believe there is a moral obligation. My parents did not send me to a trainer as a working student due to something said to them - I am very glad I was not subjected to anything as a result.

[2bayboys]

@alter0001

SS investigated it many years later as part of a complaint filed by someone else against this person.

SS acknowledged that the conduct was inappropriate but noted no sanctions would be imposed and reasoned as follows:

“The only USEF standards in effect at the time, the 1959 USEF Rule Book, only addresses misconduct during a competition. Since the text messages were sent in 20xx and do not relate to a USEF competition, no USEF standards, rules, or policies were violated.”

As previously stated I’m not going to get into great detail as the investigation has been concluded and retaliation is a very real concern.

What bothers me about this more and more is that now there are TWO people with a SafeSport type complaint against this person: the OP and the unknown individual who filed the complaint separate from the OP. Without a doubt this guy is a predator.

I understand the OP’s worry about retaliation but I’d have a hard time not blasting this guy’s texts into the public square and letting the community do its thing.

[Hoofbeat_Heartbeat]

This whole situation just gives me the yucks. How is this person still out there, interacting with children, after complaints?

[IPEsq]

I don’t think there is an obligation since USEF has not banned this trainer. But if the conduct would violate current rules, I think it would be nice to give the parent a heads up in case it repeats. Which seems like it could given the OP isn’t the only one with a prior issue. You’d only have a duty to report (to SS) if you if the student tells you that it’s also happening to them or you otherwise observe it.

[Paint_Party]

@2bayboys

Without a doubt this guy is a predator.

Yes, this is the part that grabbed me: the predatory conduct happened not just to OP, but then also to someone else. I’d wager he’s been a slime ball to even more young equestrians.

As I have learned, a lot of these scummy guys know just how far they can go, tip-toeing up to the edge of the law and now, Safe Sport. They’re clever, calculating pigs.

If I were OP I’d be brief yet also candid with the mom. Acknowledge that the info might be misinterpreted as sour grapes. Ensure her that’s not the case. It’s being shared out of concern.

We’ve all been silent in the horse world for too long and that has allowed these predators to view our realm as an easy hunting ground.

[trubandloki]

@Paint_Party

Acknowledge that the info might be misinterpreted as sour grapes

I wonder if the OP adding on something about a great trainer that is not a creep (not saying it that way, clearly) might help with the sour grapes feeling?

Something like - I know Daughter wants to expand her riding past what I was able to do for her, I know lots of people have moved forward with great success riding with Trainer XYZ, who as far as I know does not have the same history as Trainer Creep.

[Juliette]

Absolutely tell the girl’s mother. Please. Especially given that you have proof of the interactions. As a parent, I’d be upset if someone DIDN’T tell me about something like this, especially since it’s apparently happened more than once.

[mmeqcenter]

Whether or not you have an obligation under SafeSport, I believe you certainly have a moral obligation to tell the kid’s parents.

Yes, there’s a good chance they tell you to kick rocks, but at least you tried.

[Christa_P]

From the OP:

Should I reach out to her mother? I wasn’t particularly close with them but was certainly friendly and have mom’s number. Part of me says no, not my problem don’t get involved and I’ll look bitter if I do. But on the other hand I would feel terrible if something happened that I somehow could’ve prevented or warned someone about in advance.

@trubandloki

I feel like you are in a no win situation here.

Nothing you do will be right.
If you do nothing and this scum does something to this girl, you will be wrong for not saying something. If you say something people are going to insist you are saying something because you lost a client and are trying to ruin this wonderful trainer for no reason.

If you reach out, I think it has to be to the parents.

I get the impression they were barn mates with the same trainer, not that the OP was the trainer.

[trubandloki]

@Christa_P

I get the impression they were barn mates with the same trainer, not that the OP was the trainer.

Oh, good point.
I did not read it that way, but you are correct, it could be read that way.

I assumed trainer because I could not think how just another adult riding at this barn could look bitter if they reached out trying to warn this family about changing barns to that barn.

But in either case, I still feel like the OP is in a no win situation.

I think it is best that the OP does say something, but that will not stop someone this slimy from making the OP into the person who is wrong.

[wanderlust]

100% reach out to the mom. As a mom, I’d be incredibly appreciative to know I should be extra careful.

[NaturallyHappy]

I am in the camp of “warn mom”. That said, I would not do it over text. I would do it in person or by phone and offer to show mom the texts. I would be concerned the texts could be used against the OP in some way.

[Peggy]

If I were the mom, I would want to know. She might be angry in the moment, but it’s the right thing to do, and ultimately she should be appreciative.

Several people in our circle warned a teen before she went to ride with someone with a “reputation.” This was 30 or so years ago so well before safe sport. She went anyway and nothing happened to her (she has emphatically stated it and I believe her). I think the person in question was kind of afraid of her dad…

I didn’t warn two adult friends who went to ride with someone whose assistant (who ultimately took over the business) had assorted convictions involving drugs. There was no horse abuse or sexual predation going on that I was aware of, they were adults, there were people we all knew who had ridden with the person they could have asked, and two of the people involved (I’ll leave it at that) are nastily retaliatory.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@Peggy

I think the person in question was kind of afraid of her dad…

Predators are very careful about the victims they pick. (This isn’t victim-blaming. In fact, sometimes they pick kids who are hungry, tougher, and more dedicated because those kids are more determined to “make it” in the industry, or who have parents who are less present n their lives.)

Even if they ignore the OP, it will be in the back of their minds, and it may be something they thank the OP for later.

[tabula_rashah]

I personally would warn mom- no kid should be subjected to that. I don’t care what would happen to my reputation.

[FjordBCRF]

I’m another vote for telling mom. You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t, if you’re going to be damned either way, might as well try and protect the kid if you can.

[Annie10]

I think that if i had first hand experience and didn’t speak up, and something happened again, I would not be able to sleep at night. Tell the mom.

[hoopoe]

@alter0001

SS investigated it many years later as part of a complaint filed by someone else against this person.

YES tell the parents. The offending person is showing a tendency

[hey101]

Another vote for have the conversation with the mother. This is not thirdhand barn gossip. It happened directly to you, and you have direct evidence in stored text messages. It could potentially be an awkward conversation, but if that is the case that says more about the other mother than you. As a mother of a teenage girl myself, I would be beyond grateful to be given that kind of heads up.

[hillary_again]

Great advice here. No , you don’t have a duty. Tell the mom. I would frame this as, keep an eye on your kid and don’t let her be unsupervised. Be prepared for her to dismiss your input. I was shocked when, as a parent, I would contact other parents about something my kid told me was happening, and the other parent would deny that any such activity was taking place.