Safe Sport Update

[MysticOakRanch]

What, guilty until proven innocent is a problem in our country? What, teen girls are vindictive? What, a generic training that makes us all mandated reporters hasn’t turned out to be all that useful?

While I’m all for protecting kids, and adult sexual abuse victims too! I do not think SafeSport is the answer, nor do I think it is really even a step in the right direction. I find myself warning some really good coaches (in other sports) and teachers to be super careful about taking that “needy” kid under their wings. This is something coaches and teachers and club advisors have done for ages - perfectly innocent, and often helpful to the loner kid who doesn’t relate well to others. Now days, that looks too much like grooming.

And such an accusation ruins a persons life. And their families lives.

Sexual abuse is a serious issue. Horribly serious. Putting a nonprofit organization in charge of it and having them turn us all into deputy investigators and mandated reporters after a brief and generic training is a serious mistake.

They need to to do better training for kids and their parents. That would be effective. And that isn’t happening. 60 Minutes did a special investigative report on the topic, and interviewed some of the gymnasts. All of them said - if we had known… that isn’t acceptable, that isn’t normal, that doesn’t mean they care. And their parents said - if we had known. Apparently SafeSport didn’t listen to what they had to say.

Now on we have this:

https://equinesportscouncil.org/safesportappeals/

[Reddfox]

I’m sorry to see that, but not surprised. I have mixed feelings about SafeSport. On one hand, I applaud the efforts to protect our kids. The equine industry is ripe for sexual abuse with young working students spending months or years away from home, impressionable kids who want to do anything and everything in order to fulfill their passions, and men and women who are elevated (in the kid’s eyes) to god-like status.

On the other hand, this industry is also full of people who will stoop at nothing to ruin reputations and “pay someone back” who they feel wronged them. If the charges are false, it does ruin lives. Even if a person is completely exonerated, the accusation follows them around in whispers and sometimes overt discrimination.

There has to be a middle ground. Parents need to vet mentors, and have conversations with their kids about what is appropriate or not and that their kids are allowed to say no to ANYTHING that makes them uncomfortable and to reassure their kids that if Super Trainer is crossing a line, they will find another way, another trainer, to fulfill the dream. I also believe that people need to be aware that this DOES happen, and kids ARE groomed for this and what to watch for and how to recognize it. But I think that the investigative process needs to be more discreet, and more thought out than the knee-jerk “put 'em on a list” and then figure it out mentality.

[netg]

By LAW, mandatory reporters are required to go to law enforcement, not even people in authority in their org.

I will fight in court if the USEF/USDF try to claim this training actually made me a mandatory reporter. However, if I see something, I’m going to the police, and not to some Olympic sport body. I don’t trust them to look out for kids if anything actually happens, and I don’t trust them to fairly investigate before punishing someone either.

[Saskatoonian]

Going to have to see more than a little marketing blurb to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

And even the marketing blurb didn’t say anything about teen girls reporting falsely. Nice job there.

[kenyarider]

According to Ms. Keating, USEF lawyer, the training is required by the IOC or the national level version. USEF is just following orders. I don’t think it makes one a “mandatory reporter” however.

[Rackonteur]

Um, any of you care to explain to the rest of us what the rest of you are talking about? SafeSport is … ?

Kids are at risk of …?

Is dressage a safe sport?

[netg]

@Rackonteur

Um, any of you care to explain to the rest of us what the rest of you are talking about? SafeSport is … ?

Kids are at risk of …?

Is dressage a safe sport?

Try following her link.

Are you outside the US? SafeSport is the organization the US Olympic Committee handed authority to do sexual assault/awarness/abuse/harassment training.

[Roberta]

Who is and what authority does the Equine Sports Council have? I have never heard of them.

[rockonxox]

Well… just look at the about page. You’ve got Navin & Romm from LG and KF’s legal team running it. It looks like it is being run by Darnell … the ESC facebook page appears to be his morgan/arab horse show wire that has now morphed into promoting the ESC? Site for ESC was registered in October 2018 so it is a new thing - likely created just for Safe Sport concerns. There are definitely some issues with the Safe Sport process, but I think it is an important tool and at least something is being done.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

I’m a mandatory reporter due to my profession.

I did the training a few a few weeks ago and found it extremely well done, and I have to do a ton of training modules like that in many subjects again due to my profession.

I think it is good information for EVERYONE to have and know.

I am opposed to it signifying any sort of “training” that makes one a mandatory reporter to any agency other than law enforcement, for many reasons, most important of which is that law enforcement is trained to investigate and that’s how it should go down as that’s how we have set up amendments, etc. Innocent until proven guilty is a core of our society and in cases of danger, law enforcement knows what to do.

[oldernewbie]

Boy scout leaders and parents have had to take this kind of training for ages. It does NOT make you a mandated reporter or an investigator. Those who are mandated reporters are designated by law. I am also a mandated reporter, and that doesn’t make you an investigator either.

SafeSport, boy scout youth protection training, and similar programs are in place to raise awareness and provide concerned parties with approaches for reporting suspicious behavior. If you are a typical middle class person as I am, it’s likely that you have no idea that these slimy manipulative and dangerous people are involved with youth activities of all types. I realize SafeSport appear to be overkill to some but the alternative was on full view at Larry Nasser’s sentencing. There were a whole lot of people who didn’t see the red flags all around. What do you propose as the alternative?

And the folks who started that Equine Sports Council have a sketchy past. See the H/J forum.

[MysticOakRanch]

Just to clarify, this does not make you a legal mandated reporter. But SafeSport is required of all who show and it includes a requirement that you report suspected "behavior " to SafeSport to investigate. Lack of reporting suspected behavior makes you also guilty of violating these regulations. For those who didn’t read the article, 13 of 16 case decisions to date have been overturned or severely reduced when taken beyond this Council which is affiliated with Safesport.

Further, even though the cases are overturned, people’s reputations are being ruined. And kids are not being protected.

There has to be a better way. And there needs to be much more training for junior athletes and their parents. Ongoing, effective, annual training. And I’d even suggest better training for show management, TDs, and others with professional responsibility for events.

and I’ve just recently heard some of the same things about the ESC and Safesport founders that newbie mentions. Meanwhile they are making a nice income on this required training… this is not the answer to a very serious problem.

[emipou]

OP - I just find it a little odd how adamantly opposed you are to SafeSport. It doesn’t make sense to me. I get not liking it, but you’re way too flamed up over this.

[endlessclimb]

The public vilifying on simply an accusation alone has been my problem all along with this, and the metoo movement.

FWIW, I don’t have an answer to the problem. Just that the public outcry when one individual cries foul has potential to be abused in a big big way.

[atlatl]

False accusations can ruin someone’s life.

Unreported abuse can ruin someone’s life.

I don’t have time now to find and cite real sources of data but I’ve read that the percentage of false accusations is very low (e.g. low single digits if that) while the number of incidents of unreported abuse is very high.

A culture that shames victims and makes it onerous to report and then the victim gets put on trial ruins someone’s life.

Seeing your abuser/attacker get off with little to no consequence can ruin someone’s life.

At least there is recourse and sympathy for the falsely accused; not so much for all the victims.

I know which side of the argument I’m on.

[netg]

@atlatl

False accusations can ruin someone’s life.

Unreported abuse can ruin someone’s life.

I don’t have time now to find and cite real sources of data but I’ve read that the percentage of false accusations is very low (e.g. low single digits if that) while the number of incidents of unreported abuse is very high.

A culture that shames victims and makes it onerous to report and then the victim gets put on trial ruins someone’s life.

Seeing your abuser/attacker get off with little to no consequence can ruin someone’s life.

At least there is recourse and sympathy for the falsely accused; not so much for all the victims.

I know which side of the argument I’m on.

But when I look at “all these accused people were found not guilty” I am alarmed for abuse victims. Because it’s not law enforcement looking into it, and “vindictive” is the reason given for why it’s a false claim. Really? I tend to doubt there are that many vindictive false claims, but I am certain there are many accused claiming that’s why they are innocent. Only our judicial system should be examining that, not some random organization.

I had friends who were raped in college and the school made them sign paperwork saying they would not press charges and would go through the school process instead. Absolutely the wrong way to handle things, ever.

[oldernewbie]

Just to point out - that Equine Sports Council is not affiliated with SafeSport. They clearly have an ax to grind against it. I’m not even sure where they are getting their numbers. So take all of what they say with a big grain of salt.

[MysticOakRanch]

@atlatl

False accusations can ruin someone’s life.

Unreported abuse can ruin someone’s life.

I don’t have time now to find and cite real sources of data but I’ve read that the percentage of false accusations is very low (e.g. low single digits if that) while the number of incidents of unreported abuse is very high.

A culture that shames victims and makes it onerous to report and then the victim gets put on trial ruins someone’s life.

Seeing your abuser/attacker get off with little to no consequence can ruin someone’s life.

At least there is recourse and sympathy for the falsely accused; not so much for all the victims.

I know which side of the argument I’m on.

i actually agree with you on that overall concept atlatl, but I don’t agree with the process that has been put in place. It is just further hurting victims by creating this kind of bad PR. As I stated in my original post, Safesport itself didn’t do the research as to what the victims need. There needs to be training for kids and their parents. The people who actually see this behavior day in and out. Instead, it feels like a witch-hunt, and we are all asked to find and stone the witch. This will back fire. It already is back firing.

And i I agree the statistics show false accusations for sexual crimes (and actually for ANY crimes) are rare, and are highly under reported. But this is not the solution. Education of kids and parents, that is what experts AND previous victims tell us. Safesport is a political bandaid. Spend that money and effort on a useful program that will truly help our kids.

[MysticOakRanch]

@Rackonteur

Is dressage a safe sport?

Just to clarify, NO sport is safe. Safesport is about sexual abuse training.

[AZ_TD]

Safe Sport addresses emotional and physical abuse as well as sexual. I have not heard of any vindictive accusations. Can you cite some specifics?

https://www.usef.org/compete/resources-forms/rules-regulations/safe-sport