@atlatl and @rockonxox I can’t like your posts enough- I wish there was a damn heart emoji ;):applause:
There IS a process that takes place prior to someone being suspended. Someone can’t just file a report that says “Pennywell Bay did XYZ to ABC” and BAM I’m listed. There is actually an investigatory process. :rolleyes:
The “council” is run but an interesting group of people. Perhaps everyone needs to look at the people, history etc.
As for JAMS- that is an arbitration company. . It does not say that these are horse professionals? JAMS does arbitration against SafeSport overall (in addition to many other arbitration) - not just USEF- so don’t conflate the numbers that it was all equine Safesport- it could be any of the other sports covered?
Much like “not guilty” does not equal innocent, being reinstated to a sport does not necessarily mean there was nothing behind the claim.
I think people, including the OP should do a search on this BB about Bonnie Navin. There was a thread recently in the H/J forum about wanting to reinstate Jimmy Williams. She alluded to the fact that she thinks Anne Kursinski is full of it. The Facebook link in that thread no longer works as she eventually made the post private.
I haven’t had time to listen to the podcast, but from reading that blurb it does not appear that they are claiming either that the overturned cases are Equestrian athletes or that they were overturned because they were vindictive accusations. Bonnie Navin claims antecodatally to have seen vindictive accusations but it doesn’t say that she was involved in the overturned cases. Michael Romm is the attorney for Larry Glefke, who is currently suspended for SafeSport and has been caught violating the drug rules (as well as changing horses’ names/ages etc when convenient for competition purposes against USEF rules)-- so he clearly has a financial stake in eliminating SafeSport. Did you listen to the podcast? I’m curious what data on actual cases was presented, and where they got it?
If I pay a Show Pass fee to compete at a USEF-sanctioned horse show, does this training requirement apply to me?
No. Only USEF Competing Members 18-years-old and older are required to take the SafeSport Training.
I know nothing about Mr. Coughlin or what he’s been accused of doing. It’s sad that it came to suicide, no matter what. Perhaps some good will come of it, though. Trainers, coaches and clinicians who are abusive, either physically or verbally better watch your step. I don’t think it matters if the victim is a child or an adult.
I would hope people will still go to the police first…the problem you see with a lot of the big abuse cases is they went to the coach, the priest, the organization…and so on. The cover up is just amazing in sports etc.
I totally agree about cover up, and would point out it isn’t just in sports. It is in our entire society, and other societies too. It is in the churches, corporate America, government offices, everywhere. In some countries, women are stoned for being raped, yes this is still happening today :mad: It is horrific and very real. We need something effective to happen. But an ineffective solution could cause even more damage to victims.
I dont think anyone here here knows anything about Mr Coughlin, so we can’t really guess, is this a horrific result of false accusations or is this the sad end to horrific behavior? Either way, it is the wrong result. As are the number of cases that were overturned in the original article I referenced. This isn’t helping victims.
To to those who referenced law enforcement, I agree 100%! Let the experts handle it! However… There is a requirement on USEF SS website that says if we suspect, we must report to SS, even if you reported to local authorities. Be aware, according to the regulations, you MUST also report to SS and if you don’t , you can be criminally charged and subjected to USEF sanctions. Pretty sure that was covered in the training modules too. . I don’t know why reports to law enforcement is not sufficient, other then they do require a higher burden of proof.
What happens if I do not report conduct that I am required to report?
The failure to report sexual misconduct involving a minor is a crime under federal law and it is punishable as a criminal offense. In addition, the failure to report sexual misconduct is a violation that could result in a sanction against the individual.
I WOULD report suspected misconduct to law enforcement, did you misread my post?! Bogey said they would go to law enforcement and I agree, and personally feel they should take it from there. They are the experts. But now we must also remember to report to SS, and many think if the report to they local law enforcement, they are done. I am pointing out, although it seems like we should be done once the police are involved, we must ALSO report to SS.
“Be aware, according to the regulations, you MUST also report to SS and if you don’t , you can be criminally charged and subjected to USEF sanctions. Pretty sure that was covered in the training modules too. . I don’t know why reports to law enforcement is not sufficient, other then they do require a higher burden of proof.”
and this is the part I flunked in the test…I then went back and reread it. A lot of these organizations SHOULD have called police and did not…the HANDLED it internally…and we know the results of that! Let the police make the appropriate contacts.
So the folks I’ve talked to who were trained in mandatory reporting said their training explicitly says NOT to go to the authority figures (mostly in schools in my case) and only to the police, unless there is an imminent danger - if it’s an immediate, you always make the child’s safety priority #1. But reporting to other people can skew investigations.
I am NOT a trained mandatory reporter - would some who have been on these threads chime in on that?
Regardless, Safe Sport doesn’t get to make up laws and statutes for us.
If someone has knowledge of a crime and they do not report it they can be charged if it is found out that they had knowledge. That is not a SafeSport thing that is the law.
On that note, if you have knowledge of crime, why on earth would you not report it? Is horse showing so important to people that they will look the other way when it comes to criminal behavior?
Also SafeSport wants people to report things to the police AND to SafeSport. The police for investigation and SafeSport to take appropriate action until charges are cleared/dropped etc. The police cannot stop someone from being a member of a club. That’s where SafeSport comes in.
Who said they wouldn’t report something to law enforcement? Of course I would report crimes I was aware of or saw to the police.
I’ll repeat the WHY since apparently reading comprehension is a challenge to some, while again asking if anyone who is actually a trained mandatory reporter has been taught what I think I understand is taught to mandatory reporters.
But reporting to other people can skew investigations.
SafeSport is not a USEF organization. So not reporting to authority figures in this case means the USEF. One reports to the police and SafeSport NOT the USEF and the police.
Being a mandatory reporter means you are required by law (or bylaws of a club) to report anything that violates the bylaws or you face consequences ranging from legal action to suspension from the club.
Funny you want to comment on reading comprehension yet how SafeSport works continues to elude you.
ETA: I simply stated report a crime specifically leaving out law enforcement. So WHY would you not report a crime to SafeSport? Is that clearer for you?
