You would much rather fall in a Charles Owen skull cap than a GPA…GPA doesn’t offer much, although they look great and are lightweight. The padding at the back is minimal. If you are worried about that wear your stock tie while on cross.
[QUOTE=faybe;8462303]
I understand that, my J3 is padded below the bottom edge of the helmet where the straps would be, just as much as any Samshield is. I get that it’s irrelevant because you’re not interested in the COs (which is totally fine! They aren’t for everyone), but it seems misleading to say that there’s some additional safety feature to the GPA or Samshield because they pad their back straps (as the CO J3 does).
Just out of curiosity- are these brands marketing this as a true additional safety feature? Have they done any studies to show that a little strip of foam covering a strap provides any additional protection to your skull/spinal cord? To me that’s like saying those fuzzy velcro seat belt covers your grandma has in her old caddy will keep you from breaking your clavicle in a car wreck.
I’m sorry, I know I’ve completely hijacked the intent of this thread, but I’ve never heard this touted as a safety feature before and it seems like a crazy reason to spend an additional $200 on a helmet. Maybe I’m just way behind the times though :o[/QUOTE]
I don’t have anything against CO, they are very high quality helmets. They just do not have the combination of the ventilation and the padding that both the GPA and Samshield have. The lady at Dover told me that CO did not sell any with the padding at the back (and they did not have the J3 in stock) but I looked up the J3 and I see that it has padding on the back. However it does not have the ventilation that I need. I live in North Carolina so during the summer I’m riding in the mid to high 90s.
Yes, the padding is there as an additional safety feature. Also from the reviews I have read it has saved people from damaging the backs of their heads and has allowed to be attain only minimal whiplash. And from what I can tell online, the padding on the J3 does not look as thick or big as the padding on the Samshields and GPAs. Although I can’t tell for sure since it’s online. So since the padding has done that, I think paying an extra $200 is worth it to have very minimal injuries.
[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8462829]
You would much rather fall in a Charles Owen skull cap than a GPA…GPA doesn’t offer much, although they look great and are lightweight. The padding at the back is minimal. If you are worried about that wear your stock tie while on cross.[/QUOTE]
The skull caps do not offer the ventilation that both the GPAs and Samshields have. I live in North Carolina and it gets too hot here in the summer to not have ventilation. It was in the mid to high 90s almost the entire summer here. There are many reviews online of people who have fallen in GPAs and they protected them very well.
[QUOTE=juliaeharper;8463065]
The skull caps do not offer the ventilation that both the GPAs and Samshields have. I live in North Carolina and it gets too hot here in the summer to not have ventilation. It was in the mid to high 90s almost the entire summer here. There are many reviews online of people who have fallen in GPAs and they protected them very well.[/QUOTE]
I find it strange that you’ve created a new account to come on here and throw around bizarre accusations about CO helmets while promoting Samshields and GPA’s.
Charles Owens fit my head very well. I don’t even notice the current one when it’s on my head. I wear it from the time I arrive at the barn to the time I walk out the door, including grooming, grazing, turn out, blanketing, etc. That makes it the safest helmet for me.
I’ve also had IRH’s, a couple of Troxels and a Tipperary Sportage. My current extra helmet is a Troxel which is more ventilated, not quite as comfortable as the CO, but fits well.
There has never been a temperature at which I was comfortable working my horse that was too hot for the Charles Owen. Even the GR8 unventilated one. But I also avoid the heat of the day when the high is in the mid 90’s so I don’t know how bad it would be if you were cantering around when it was 99 degrees outside.
As for protecting your head, there’s one standard they all meet and if they are marketing extra neck protection based on a bit of padding at the back of the helmet, I call big fat BS on that. I’d like to see the research. I’ve had multiple tack shop employees try to sell me the latest most expensive helmet on the premise that more $ is safer. The only study to date (out of date and no longer in print) concluded that that was definitively not the case. Go Troxel. I’ve wacked my head in one of the IRH’s, two versions of the CO and one of the Troxels. They all did the job.
The benefit of the skull cap is the lack of a brim, which in a fall can be beneficial.
If you were asking about the Sportage vs. the CO, I could at least understand as it definitely has a significantly lower actual helmet coverage in the back of your head whereas the GPA, CO and Samshield have similar profiles. There’s no evidence that it’s relevant though.
[QUOTE=NCRider;8463150]
I find it strange that you’ve created a new account to come on here and throw around bizarre accusations about CO helmets while promoting Samshields and GPA’s.
Charles Owens fit my head very well. I don’t even notice the current one when it’s on my head. I wear it from the time I arrive at the barn to the time I walk out the door, including grooming, grazing, turn out, blanketing, etc. That makes it the safest helmet for me.
I’ve also had IRH’s, a couple of Troxels and a Tipperary Sportage. My current extra helmet is a Troxel which is more ventilated, not quite as comfortable as the CO, but fits well.
There has never been a temperature at which I was comfortable working my horse that was too hot for the Charles Owen. Even the GR8 unventilated one. But I also avoid the heat of the day when the high is in the mid 90’s so I don’t know how bad it would be if you were cantering around when it was 99 degrees outside.
As for protecting your head, there’s one standard they all meet and if they are marketing extra neck protection based on a bit of padding at the back of the helmet, I call big fat BS on that. I’d like to see the research. I’ve had multiple tack shop employees try to sell me the latest most expensive helmet on the premise that more $ is safer. The only study to date (out of date and no longer in print) concluded that that was definitively not the case. Go Troxel. I’ve wacked my head in one of the IRH’s, two versions of the CO and one of the Troxels. They all did the job.
The benefit of the skull cap is the lack of a brim, which in a fall can be beneficial.
If you were asking about the Sportage vs. the CO, I could at least understand as it definitely has a significantly lower actual helmet coverage in the back of your head whereas the GPA, CO and Samshield have similar profiles. There’s no evidence that it’s relevant though.[/QUOTE]
I am not making an accusations about CO helmets. In my last response I said that COs are great, safe helmets. I am not promoting GPAs or Samshields but instead trying to decide between the two of them because I know I want either a GPA or Samshield. Because those brands both fit me! But what I find bizarre is that people are commenting irrelevant things when I know I want a Samshield or GPA. All I’m asking about is the fit of them. Go back to the original questions that I asked, those are the ones I need answered. I don’t need random suggestions. If CO fit your head very well, then keep wearing them. They do not offer a helmet with the features I want, so I am not going to buy one. I ride in the heat of the day and in the morning and the heat is still extreme, and did all summer. I know what it feels like to have a solid helmet. I currently have a non ventilated IRH so that is a big reason as to why I am looking to buy a new one. That and it is time to replace my current IRH.
For the padding adding extra protection, if that is what will help protect me even more, then so be it. It is not the more money spent on it that people are claiming is safer, they are saying that the shell is also designed well. There are many reviews online from people saying that they have had falls in both Samshields and GPAs and they both have provided great protection. There are reviews of the padding in the back adding extra protection and keeping people from sustaining as much whiplash. I’ve fallen in a Troxel (when I was very young) and it fell apart even though it wasn’t a bad fall. So I am not going to waste money on another one. They also do not fit me correctly. I would buy another IRH because my current one has done a fantastic job, however they don’t have the features that I am looking for.
I know I want either a GPA or Samshield, I just want to know more about the overall fit of them. Those are the questions that I need answered.
Customer service at Dover can be hit or miss. Perhaps the sales girl was confused. Or perhaps she passionately dislikes Charles Owen helmets. I don’t know. But I do know that I find your claim about Charles Owen helmets have inferior padding at the back baffling. And apparently I am not alone in being confused. Perhaps you would get the protection that you are talking about from a vest instead?
What types of helmets have you been riding in up until now?
I’m not pushing Charles Owen at all. I’ve never worn one for more than 15 seconds because they don’t fit me. I just don’t want people to be misled.
Get the helmet that fits, they will all do the job if they are certified.
[QUOTE=mvspencer;8463236]
Customer service at Dover can be hit or miss. Perhaps the sales girl was confused. Or perhaps she passionately dislikes Charles Owen helmets. I don’t know. But I do know that I find your claim about Charles Owen helmets have inferior padding at the back baffling. And apparently I am not alone in being confused. Perhaps you would get the protection that you are talking about from a vest instead?
What types of helmets have you been riding in up until now?
I’m not pushing Charles Owen at all. I’ve never worn one for more than 15 seconds because they don’t fit me. I just don’t want people to be misled.
Get the helmet that fits, they will all do the job if they are certified.[/QUOTE]
That is true, she could have forgotten about that model. I’m not saying that they have inferior padding at all. What I’m saying is that they do not have the key features that I want that both the Samshield and GPA offer- ventilation and padding below the shell of the helmet. Which is exactly why I am looking into and asking about those two brands. NOT the others. Also I am talking about head protection, not the rest of my body. I wear a vest while going cross country and that’s only going to protect my body/abdomen, the helmet is what will protect my head. I’ve ridden in a Troxel and now I currently have an IRH.
I will go with the one that fits best. That’s why I asked the questions at the very beginning of this forum, almost everyone else since then has derailed from the topic. When I want to know about the fit of the Samshield and whether or not the padding squishes and the type of fit that the GPAs are. That’s why I posted this, to find out information about the GPAs and Samshields that I am looking at, not other helmets that don’t fit me right and that I don’t want to buy because they don’t offer what I want.
If anyone has any information on the Samshield Shadow Matte or GPA Speed Air that would be greatly appreciated! Especially information on the fit (round or oval)! Also, does the Samshield feeling like it’s perched on my head signal that it does not fit right? Or will it sink down more as I wear it? Did anyone else’s feel the same way and then once you wore it did it no longer feel perched? Any information on just these 2 helmets would be great!
To me, a lack of a fixed brim (which could potentially act as a lever arm in a fall and push the helmet back into the back of your skull/spine) would be more important as a safety feature than a padded back for eventing. Do both Samshield and GPA have brims? I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a skull cap from either of those brands.
I lived and rode in Louisiana for 10+ years, and I can understand wanting to be cool. I ended up using my skull cap for shows or xc schooling, and bought a lightweight, ventilated schooling helmet for the days it was just too unbearable.
To answer your original question, GPAs are known for fitting round heads, I can’t wear them at all, they gape a ton at the sides of my head.
I have a Samshield Shadow Matte, which I like very much for comfort and ventilation. (Have yet to test it’s protection features, knock wood.) The liner does compress some with wear, so mine was very snug/ slightly uncomfortable when I got it, and within a few rides, had compressed to comfortably snug. That being said, I’m not sure what you’re talking about with the padding in the back? All that’s on mine is the harness, which is padded insomuch as it’s comfortable to wear, but that particular feature has nothing to do with safety.
[QUOTE=faybe;8463716]
To me, a lack of a fixed brim (which could potentially act as a lever arm in a fall and push the helmet back into the back of your skull/spine) would be more important as a safety feature than a padded back for eventing. Do both Samshield and GPA have brims? I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a skull cap from either of those brands.
I lived and rode in Louisiana for 10+ years, and I can understand wanting to be cool. I ended up using my skull cap for shows or xc schooling, and bought a lightweight, ventilated schooling helmet for the days it was just too unbearable.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that’s true. The thing with not having a fixed brim makes sense it’s just the helmets made with not fixed brims don’t have the ventilation 
Yes both the Samshield and GPA both have brims, they don’t offer skull caps unfortunately. Yeah the heat just gets to be unbearable and that’s why I want the ventilation!
[QUOTE=Dutchmare433;8463749]
To answer your original question, GPAs are known for fitting round heads, I can’t wear them at all, they gape a ton at the sides of my head.
I have a Samshield Shadow Matte, which I like very much for comfort and ventilation. (Have yet to test it’s protection features, knock wood.) The liner does compress some with wear, so mine was very snug/ slightly uncomfortable when I got it, and within a few rides, had compressed to comfortably snug. That being said, I’m not sure what you’re talking about with the padding in the back? All that’s on mine is the harness, which is padded insomuch as it’s comfortable to wear, but that particular feature has nothing to do with safety.[/QUOTE]
Ok perfect that’s what I needed to know, thank you!! I just read from multiple reviews that the padding has helped (especially with whiplash) so I figured if there’s a chance it would add more protection then it’s worth it.
After almost 7 years of fitting riding helmets, from Troxel to CO to GPA, if it “perches” it doesn’t fit. It usually means the depth of the helmet is shallower than the height of the crown of your head. I tend to see it more with helmets touted as low profile, aka shorter. For example, a CO Gr8 looks like a dainty little mushroom cap on my head, where their Ayr8 comes down and wraps around my head more. Someone else may try an Ayr8 in the correct size but it pushes the tops of their ears down where the Gr8 is perfect.
But what fits and is comfortable. If it’s not comfortable you won’t want to wear it.
[QUOTE=WNT;8464016]
After almost 7 years of fitting riding helmets, from Troxel to CO to GPA, if it “perches” it doesn’t fit. It usually means the depth of the helmet is shallower than the height of the crown of your head. I tend to see it more with helmets touted as low profile, aka shorter. For example, a CO Gr8 looks like a dainty little mushroom cap on my head, where their Ayr8 comes down and wraps around my head more. Someone else may try an Ayr8 in the correct size but it pushes the tops of their ears down where the Gr8 is perfect.
But what fits and is comfortable. If it’s not comfortable you won’t want to wear it.[/QUOTE]
Ok that’s exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much!
[QUOTE=juliaeharper;8463855]
Yeah that’s true. The thing with not having a fixed brim makes sense it’s just the helmets made with not fixed brims don’t have the ventilation Yes both the Samshield and GPA both have brims, they don’t offer skull caps unfortunately. Yeah the heat just gets to be unbearable and that’s why I want the ventilation![/QUOTE]
Actually Samshield does do a xc specific hat without a real peak.
The GPA speed air is the only helmet I will wear in our hot SC summers. By far the coolest helmet on the market. I agree with you, I would die trying to ride in a CO in the summer!
Charles Owen has both “regular” helmets and skull caps that have ventilation. I recently got an ARY8 and love it!
FWIW, I was bucked off a horse in August, while wearing a Charles Owen skull cap, and landed directly on the back of my head. My helmet was awesome…I had no bruising or soreness at the back of my head, so I’m really having a hard time imaging how the “extra padding” on the GPA or Samshield makes any difference at all. It certainly wouldn’t have made a difference in my fall, and I think that’s the best example of when it would theoretically have come in handy.
I know the OP doesn’t want to hear this, but I think the arguments being used as to why she won’t buy a CO–that it has no ventilation and lacks “special” padding–make no sense. The COs certainly have several styles with ventilation. And if you fall and hit the back of your head, the padding offered in other brands is not going to make any difference because the features that absorb the shock and help prevent brain damage are in the actual helmets…not the additional padding or harness, which benefits are negligible with regard to protecting the skull.
[QUOTE=Napoles;8465141]
Actually Samshield does do a xc specific hat without a real peak.
http://www.samshield.com/en/collection/shields/xc/[/QUOTE]
Awesome I’ll look into that one, thank you!
[QUOTE=WannabeDQ;8465232]
The GPA speed air is the only helmet I will wear in our hot SC summers. By far the coolest helmet on the market. I agree with you, I would die trying to ride in a CO in the summer![/QUOTE]
That’s great to hear I hate hot helmets! Thank you!
[QUOTE=KellyS;8465325]
Charles Owen has both “regular” helmets and skull caps that have ventilation. I recently got an ARY8 and love it!
FWIW, I was bucked off a horse in August, while wearing a Charles Owen skull cap, and landed directly on the back of my head. My helmet was awesome…I had no bruising or soreness at the back of my head, so I’m really having a hard time imaging how the “extra padding” on the GPA or Samshield makes any difference at all. It certainly wouldn’t have made a difference in my fall, and I think that’s the best example of when it would theoretically have come in handy.
I know the OP doesn’t want to hear this, but I think the arguments being used as to why she won’t buy a CO–that it has no ventilation and lacks “special” padding–make no sense. The COs certainly have several styles with ventilation. And if you fall and hit the back of your head, the padding offered in other brands is not going to make any difference because the features that absorb the shock and help prevent brain damage are in the actual helmets…not the additional padding or harness, which benefits are negligible with regard to protecting the skull.[/QUOTE]
I just checked Dover’s website to see what you were talking about and CO doesn’t have any helmets with vents. Also a lot of the CO are suede and I don’t want suede because that’s what my current helmet is and it’s a whole lot harder to keep clean. My friend that I ride with has a CO and almost passed out 2 different times this summer because they are so hot!
I understand that the skull cap does have the padding I’m looking for, however it does not have the ventilation. CO helmets also do not fit me well. I have tried them before and they did not come down far enough on my head and did not fit the overall shape of my head. Not only does CO not offer a helmet with what I need but they also do not fit me. So I will not buy a helmet that does not fit me, that doesn’t make any sense. Then the helmet could not do its job to protect me. So this is exactly why I am only asking for information on the Samshield and the GPA because they fit me the best.
