Everybody,
I have read this board, and most of you are geting on your soapboxes without ALL of the facts. Yes, this is an infuriating, controversial, very sensitive subject, butlets wait untill we have all the facts to write novels. I wholeheartedly agree with a great deal of things said, but I havent posted anything because I think that this is a situation where you need the facts.
PS, Nothing will come out of fighting, so lets keep the hostility down to a minimum
There are few people whom I adnire as much as George. Thats an honest statement. But I have never been so appalled by his actions. The fact is when it coems to this, I don’t care what kind of Idol, hero, or whatever he may be. Not a SOUL doesn’t know the dangers of such an action. I don’t care what the circumstances were. That is an act of ignorance of behalf of the owner, rider, and more than anyone else, the man who is a ‘Living Legend’. You don’t get to where mr. Morris is not knowing the rules of the game- ESPECIALLY the safety rules. I don’t think I could have handled seeing that. Had it been my horse, I don’t know what I’d do. I’m sitting here sobbing like an idiot, and i don’t even know who the horse was. But it doesn’t matter. Ignorance to such a level where the horse dies such a painful, horrid death is unnacceptable. Accidents happen, I as well as anyone else know this. However, be it accidental as it may, you are BEGGING for an accident with such actions, and irresponsible, STUPID actions. I never, in my entire life thought I would have so much disrespect for someone who I idolized to that degree. I am sickened.
Surfotter-
Do you honestly think that George will “lose sleep over this for months to come?” I don’t think so!
My thanks to Erin and Tricia (Erin, keep that laptop smokin!) I certainly apologise if anything that I have said in any of my posts have been inflammatory, but, I, like everyone else, just want to know, and like most humans, get a little impatient at times.
There is no question in my mind that whatever happened in WPB was a tragic incident that will have reprecussions for everyone involved and for equestrian sports overall. If anyone truly believes that the people who were present and who were responsible for the horse have not been through a life altering experience, they are simply ignorant about the far reaching and insidious effects of experiencing genuine trauma. Piling on the pre-judgement and second-guesses with all the benefits of hindsight is a luxury that can be enjoyed only at long-distance by those who are fortunate enough not to have been involved; doing so does nothing to remedy the situation that has occured, and does not in any way serve to prevent freak accidents from occuring in the future. Though we can all agree that the death of this animal was horrible, who is to say that it was any more horrible than the countless deaths suffered by the cattle that provide the many hides our saddles and bridles and boots are made of? Or more horrible than the slow death from neglect that the many horses we all have known in our pasts suffer after they have passed from hand to hand until old age renders them useless? I can name very few horses that I know from first hand experience have been humanely euthanized after living an entirely good life. I know of a small number of wealthy individuals who have accepted the responsibility of supporting their favorite horses as pensioners in their twighlight years, but few horses I know fall into this category. I can think of many more equally wonderful horses whose ultimate fates are totally unknown to me. We seldom if ever give these situations a second thought. The lightning speed at which you folks have condemned George Morris, et.al, is absolutely breathtaking! Get a grip! I don’t know firsthand anything more than that what happened was horrible, but I do know firsthand that top calibre show barns, including Hunterdon, lavish an almost inconcievable level of excellent care upon every horse in every stall. I also know firsthand that George Morris has always commanded the highest level of respect from fellow horsemen worldwide who know him personally. I am not ready to jump on this bandwagon just yet. I have far more confidence in the ultimate integrity of our sport and the people in it, notwithsanding their flaws (we all have flaws) than to do so.
Monica, I find your posts very articulate and well thought out. It is a pleasure to have you here on this forum. Welcome!
Lets keep a little perspective here, folks. Barney Ward & George Lindemann were tossed out of the ASHA not only for being convicted of federal crimes, but conspiring to do so in the first place. That requires planning and intent to do the crime.
If we start banning people for every error in judgement, any incident an animal is placed in danger, we’re going to have to be chucking folks out daily. How many times have you changed lanes without using your turn signal to indicate your intentions? That is an example of endagering others, and just because an accident didn’t happen, doesn’t mean one couldn’t have resulted.
If you want to read the reasoning behind the AHSA’s penalties in the Ward case, head over here: [http://www.equisearch.com/newsroom/1998news/nf_ahsa6.22.html]
If it is proven in a court of law that Mr. Morris violated a federal, state, or local law, or intended injury to the horse or rider, I’ll leap to lead the lynch mob that has formed. Until then, lets not compare oranges to poison apples.
If you use the arguement that Mr. Morris should have anticipated the danger, think of hte times you’ve cut corners around the barn, let a friend ride without a helmet, asked a horse to jump when you knew the distance wasn’t there. Do you want the AHSA yanking your membership whenever that happens? All those examples could have lead to serious injury or death, and you could have been avoided the risk but didn’t.
Its a slippery slope once a precident has been set which is in the “gray” area of the rules. Are you sure you’re ready for the consequences?
How could the rider get back on another horse the very next day and do it again??? It would take me months and probably therapy to get back on another horse. That seems so irresponsible on the riders part, let alone on GM’s. I would have spoken up if I was asked to do something I wasn’t comfortable with. Something seriously needs to be done about this! 
Also my apologies for that last post. The quote has already been answered, and I posted prior to reading the entire post. Sorry.
Please forgive my blatant stupidity, but this question has been bothering me since I first read it, and I can’t seem to find the answer in any of my books…
What exactly is an offset?
I know that it’s a part of a jump, and stationary (not like poling where people lift the pole), but is it a natural part of a jump? (if so, what part?) or a training technique?
GIZMOs! THAT is what this whole thing is about, IMO! That even the great GM is having to use Gizmos to improve the horse instead of solid, PATIENT training techniques. Right up there with head crunchers which culd make horses fall over for being unable to use their heads and necks properly to balance.
Even super tight standing martingales fall under this. But I bet a lot of you let your trainers put your horses in things that culd hurt them if they stumbled or fell: drawreins over jumps, martingales attached to curb bits, headcrunchers over jumps, etc…
How about outlawing all gizmos from showgrounds? Only legal bits, bridles, saddles and protection equipment allowed–everything else is out and if the horse can’t go along without a standing martingale, he and his trainer’s out, too.
Standing martingales are ILLEGAL in eventing, why not in hunters? And it isn’t because of the “terrain” either–ask an eventer and they’ll tell you its because of the JUMPING, period! So dont gripe about GM’s use of a pole, which i’ll bet tons of your trainers use and then some! Gripe about your entire industry’s use of gizmos galore (and throw in the lunge 'til dead which causes so many horses to go lame)–just so you dont have to learn to ride better and will keep paying them to allow you to have easy fun and win ribbons.
From what I hear from Palm Beach, there is more talk and uproar about this tragedy on this board then down in P.B. It will be forgotten there in a few days or weeks. Please, the last year I was there a horse was chased by a loose dog, ran into a tree at the end of my tent and died instantly. By the time they has removed the body, all the dogs were back out running around. The next day the same dog was loose again! The people whose horse had died had to spend the next seven weeks watching that dog run loose all day. Nobody learns!!!
This is a sad thing that had to happen. In my opinion I think that the trainer and the rider are both to blame (the trainer more so then the rider). The trainer should have had more common sense then to put a metal pipe up. Didn’t he know that someone could get hurt? The rider is also to blame because she/he should have known that it was dangerous and not jumped it. This makes me scared because you wonder how many people there are out there training like this. I am glad that my trainer DOES NOT trainer with metal pipes are anything that would hurt us. If my horse dies that way I would never forgive my self or my trainer. I would probably want to stop riding. But thats not the point the point is to USE COMMON SENSE WHEN RIDING!!!
I my mind this was NO accident…this whole thing could have been provented. Everyone keeps referring to it as an accident, it was not an accident, it was a stupid thing to do for both the rider and George Morris.
To MB - Morris may not physically abuse horses, but he mentally tears at both horse and rider, and that too is abuse…mental abuse/verbal abuse. For me it is just as bad.
We have talked about Morris’s clinics, we have talked about watching people roll around in the dirt at his clinics, and now we talk about an act that caused an unnecessary death of a horse at other one of his clinics. What next?
[This message has been edited by SillyRider (edited 01-23-2000).]
Incidentally, if the AHSA Steward is NOT notified or a protest is NOT filed, nothing will happen as far as the AHSA is concerned. Keep this in mind as you mentally deal out punishsment. Ssomething has to be put into writing before the AHSA will take any action. kIf you need help getting something on paper, let me know.
While it would be understandable that GM isn’t commenting on this incident, that’s no excuse for the Chronicle and Practical Horseman to have no reporting of the incident by now. There has clearly been sufficient time for them to investigate and interview people who were there, it’s their duty to report what happens, no just quote those involved. We get up to the minute news on just about everything, including lots of things we don’t care about, with the time that’s passed already, the FACTS of what happened and who was involved or in attendance cannot be out of the reach of responsible reporters. Wouldn’t you agree?
Holy god! What a horrible thing! I knew when Deerie was move to many words, something big and bad had to have happened. WOW!
I am deeply saddened to hear about this accident.
I competed in the hunters for seevral years, and really
love the whole “hunter” look and style. However, it has
become less and less about love of horses in my opinion.
I have seen so many horses pushed beyong their limits until
they became sick or injured. I’ve seen top hunters who were
unsound before they reached their 8th birthday - simply
from bring jumped, and jumped, and jumped. My own horse was
pushed until she became physically ill - which led me to
leave the hunter world. People were switching
horses like people trade in cars; several people
I knew had 5 or 6 different horses in a period
of three years.
I took up dressage because the emphasis
seems to be much more on the horse/human bond, and that is
what’s most important to me. It’s a shame, because
there are certainly many hunter/jumper people
who really do love thier horses first and
foremost. And tehre are wonderful horsemen -
like Ian Millar, for example - who exemplify
what a true horseman should be.
I have had one horse for the past fourteen years,
and hope to keep her for many more. She is not only
a great horse, but a cherished friend. 
Somehow we need to put the “horse” back in
“horsemanship.” The horse should always come first.
Kim
I’ve had a few days to mull this story over and these are the points I’ve come to…
It should be obvious to anyone who has been on this board, regardless of level of expertise, that this is not an issue that should be swept under the carpet.
And those at the “top” end of the industry should be forewarned that the small fish that make up the majority are getting smarter and less tolerant. And it may not hurt them today, but it will sneak up on them. Maybe not enough individually to do much damage to their pockets, but things do add up.
Boycotting publications that use them as experts, not buying the equipment they lend their names to, not taking their clinics or lessons are all ways we can protest at an level of expertise. We have so many choices these days there is no reason to follow blindly.
In regards to GM, I would hope that since he has a number of written forums {including here at the Chronicle} he would take this oppurtunity to explain his motivation for using a metal pole in general.
Whatever the whole story is, I hope he would address the issue and realize that this is the time to crack that arogant facade and be humble. Don’t ignore it, admit you were wrong {if this happened}, you are afterall only human.
As for horses being a business, yes I am afraid I am only all to aware of this. But like any other business, there are rules on how to operate and sanctions if you break them. Perhaps it is time for our industry to become just that.
As to poling in general… if whacking a solid wooden rail is not enough of an encouragment to a horse to pick up his feet, then perhaps jumping that high, wide or at all is not his forte. Just because we want them to doesn’t mean they can or will. Harkens to the leading a horse to water saying.
That’s all for now.
Why can’t everyone be patient and wait for the accurate information to come out? Speculating won’t bring the horse back… And since no one here seems to have been there, standing next to George’s schooling area and observing the accident, I don’t believe any speculation is worthwhile. It was a sad, devastating accident where the life of a horse was UNFAIRLY taken.
By the way, to the poster who stated that the reason trainers rent off-grounds barns was so that they could train “their way” - you are terribly mistaken. The real reason they rent barns off the show grounds is because they need a real “barn” for the animals to live. These people are normally in Wellington for 3 to 6 months and their horses need to be away from the horse show during the weeks they don’t show - for rest and relaxation. The horses get turnout, rides on the roads/trails, handwalks, etc., basically living the same life they live at home.
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