Schooling Incident at Palm Beach

[deerie]

I have been told of a terrible incident that took place yesterday in Palm Beach. Those of you who have contacts down there may want to look into this as well.

A very (very very very) well-known trainer was schooling an Amateur student, and had the student’s horse jump a jump which included a metal pipe as one element. Tragically, in some way the pipe was bumped and dislodged … and the horse came down on it and was impaled. I am told that the horse bled to death on the scene.

I don’t know if the trainer was up, or the owner was up. I do not know if this took place on the showgrounds or on a private jumping field near or adjacent to the showgrounds.

This I DO know… I don’t really care exactly where it happened! I am nauseated to think that any trainer would “do this” to an animal. By “do this” I mean to take such a chance of injuring or killing an animal by using a metal pipe as any element of a jump. And what of the danger to the rider? And also, I am nauseated to think that any owner would allow or take part in such a foolish exercise.

Another thing I DO know … there will a major attempt to keep this as quiet as possible. Well, fat chance! And since it cannot be kept quiet (get real!), some folks will be putting their heads together to put the best possible “spin” on this as is possible under the (quite public) circumstances.

Everyone knows that to school over a metal pipe is about the most dangerous thing one can do, because there is ALWAYS the chance that such a terrible result can occur! To me it is unthinkable that anyone can call himself/herself a horseman and take this sort of risk…

Shame on this trainer! And shame on the horse owner. Everyone knows that “accidents happen…”, but this was entirely preventable. It need not have happened! I am sick at the thought of the agony this horse must have gone through.

[This message has been edited by deerie (edited 01-22-2000).]

[Pat]

Rather than listing myself along with the zillion “me too’s”; I’ll just pick on a few points that have caught my eye will trying to catch up.

I’m having a little trouble with those few who feel it was just an accident. The use of that word implies that the death of the horse was an unforseeable event AND that all NORMAL precautions had been taken. I’m not talking about swathing the jumps in sheet cotton, but removing the obvious dangers. Metal poles simply have NO place in the schooling ring. That is why wood poles have always bee used to construct courses. If You want to “pole” a horse, atleast do it the right way, get out the bamboo. I don’t care much for the practice, but at least the bamboo is the safer approach. Only safER because I’ve seen some horrific wreaks with bamboo.

I’m sure if the same metal pole was found in a paddock, GM would instantly deem it a danger and command a Mexican to remove it. I too find it funny that he would instruct us in his many writings to remove the unused cups from jumps. Funny? Sad? I’m not sure.

I don’t think this board is a bunch of vigilantes, but I do think GM should be hung up the highest flag pole by his tightie whities. The whole thing was COMPLETLY avoidable, but he feels that he is soooo far above the rest of us that nothing can touch him. WRONG!! The laws of physics still apply at Hunterdon the same as at the lowliest hack barn. It would seem he has managed to brain wash all his students into believing he is always right. That fact that the A/O in question returned on a new horse on another day is proof.

Oh, and Ken, my full name is not on my profile for one reason, I have no idea who you are, so you don’t need to know me. If we run into each other at a show, fine, it’s a neutral place, possibly hundred of miles form home. I don’t however need someone taking my name and my hometown off the profile and then finding my actual address. Between National 411 and Expedia.com, any psycho can find any one of us with a minimum of information. Complete with turn by turn directions.

[Sunny]

Once the facts are clear, we must then take a stand…
To become part of a cover-up only damages the industry further.
Someone posted that other trainers were afraid to come forward with what they know, because George is at the top of the heap.
And if he is at the top… guess where the others preceive themselves.
If we are to have a ‘top’ of the heap, at least let us have a person who we will be proud to look up to…
Just as in our country today, let us keep the top for someone who deserves it.
It would serve our industry well, if we would be viewed as a group who has moral standards.
It is not too late to stand up.
Let us wait for the details…The real facts. Then make a decision.

It would be helpful to hear from Erin.
Enough Speculation.
It would be helpful to hear from George.
Enough Speculation.

[Flash44]

There does not seem to be any criminal actions involved in this “accident.” However, negligence probably contributed to the incident and the severity of the injury, which resulted in the death of a horse.

If you were teaching a riding lesson and knowingly overmounted a student, and that student fell off and got hurt, you would most likely be found to be negligent. Or if a stirrup leather broke on a school horse and the rider fell off and got hurt, you would be negligent if the leather was found to be in poor condition. In everything you do, you have to be aware of dangerous situations and how they may affect others around you. Wells are not left uncovered, you shovel and salt your walk and drive, businesses keep floors clean and dry, you wear a seatbelt and ask your passengers to do the same, you obey your community rules and regulations. If more common sense was used, fewer laws and regulations would have to be drafted and passed.

[deerie]

Can’t answer that! Perhaps GM himself could write us and tell us exactly WHY he needs to use a metal pole…? We won’t hold our collective breath now, will we?

The irony of it all… if this is how his schooling is done in front of God and everybody, what do they do back at home?

[SingAlongQuillo]

This is incredibly horrible, and I’m cursed with an overactive imagination so the first thing I saw in my mind when I read it was the mare I rode up until november landing on a metal pole…

It’s pretty pathetic, too, when people like myself, so beginner that I’ve never jumped over 2’6 and don’t even own a horse, know better than to ever send a horse over anything like a metal pole, or a pole with nails, or anything like that, yet prominent trainers and riders who have had to have ridden for a while are more than willing to do so, and to continue doing so in the aftermath of a tragic event involving the offending object. It’s cruel, and heartless, and the list goes on.

In a way I can understand the rider going back to ride in the clinic the next day, I’ve been in a similar (but much much less tragic, althought I doubt Sing agrees) situation when the abovementioned mare ripped her face open in the horse trailer before leaving for a show… ended up taking another horse. Though that’s on such a lower level it can’t really be compared, I can see why the rider would want to go back with another horse, if she paid good money or wanted the experience of the clinic, or whatever. But jumping the pole again is heartless.

Food for thought, though: If it hadn’t been in a George Morris clinic that this had happened, if it had been in a clinic run by someone that virtually nobody has heard of, would it even be as discussed in this forum as it has been? Would anybody even have known?

sigh I can’t imagine ever showing in the big shows. Going to small shows that cover many disciplines (sometimes going to a dressage/jumping, sometimes flat/hunter, sometimes all, etc) and riding in them all is probably as far as I’d ever get… It’s just too political at the higher levels, and the stuff happening in the dark corner of the barn is horrible, even if it’s a minority that does it. you have to wonder if these people even think of the horse as a living breathing FEELING partner, one who cares about what happens to him but isn’t given much of a choice as to what he has to do, or when he can stop. So much for quitting when it isn’t fun anymore, not like the horse has much of a choice, and then look what happens

[Banks]

when exactly is the chronicle gonna come out with an article?..

[havaklu]

However… Why on Earth would the horse have hit the pole so very HARD!?! That is what I would like to know. [/QUOTE]

Sandstone, First we don’t know if the horse hit the pole hard or soft, with front or back legs, if this was the first attempt, had the jump been raised, whatever.

But to answer your question on how do horses often end up hitting poles hard?

SIMPLE-RIDER ERROR!! That’s why most of us are Amateurs IMO.

[magisteel]

Well said Monica S

[SGray]

Thought these might be of interest - they are from CoolBreeze bb at (http://www.coolbreezefarm.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000176.html)

=============================================

coloredhorse posted 01-25-2000 08:18 AM ET (US)

As a journalist, I agree with everyone who says “get the facts,” though my little experience with Mr. Morris suggests that the incident is not beyond the reaches of possibility. Also as a journalist, I became impatient for facts and decided to go after them myself. I was not able to get beyond one of Mr. Morris’ reps, who declared that there would be no comment until an appropriate time and forum had been chosen. No confirmation; no denial. As Mr. Morris has existing business relationships with both Practical Horseman and the Chronicle of the Horse, I would venture a guess that one of these pubs will carry something – perhaps a column or letter from Mr. Morris. Still impatient, though, so I’ll probably keep trying. Any other journalists out there? Perhaps sort of a tag team approach …

Hopefully the facts about this incident have been totally blown out of proportion and the facts show that GM did not act so irresponsibly - however, I e-mailed Practical Horseman and received a reply from them that stated that Mr. Morris is “reserving comment pending legal representation”. Hmmm…I agree that we should all wait for the facts to come out before passing judgement, but perhaps if alot of people email Practical Horseman (Prachorse@aol.com) and Chronicle of the Horse and Horses Daily (horsesdaily.com) perhaps the facts will come to light.

=============================================

If nothing else, the uproar here should assure that the facts are brought to light.

[Tap2Tango]

I really don’t see what suing will do. When people sue, they do it for money and relief of the accident.(If you get what I’m saying.) It was the riders choice to jump it therefore she should take all responsiblity(and a little bit from GM) for what she does! I’m not sure about the suspension but I know that’s not up to us!

[Tower_One]

I agree that he is ultimately responsible, and it’s something he’ll have to live with, and deal with…I’m just saying to cool the hatred…you know, if we shout too loud PETA could always step and help. I agree, it was horrible, but let’s just be rational, and not hateful. ok?

[CarrieK]

Someone commented above about the possibility of a lawsuit arising out of this incident. Of course, the rider in this incident can initiate a lawsuit against the clinician, but there are a number of factors which would make it difficult for the rider to win.

First and foremost, if the suit is charging negligence, there must be little evidence of contributory negligence. Contributory negligence consists of any act, or failure to act, by the plaintiff which contributed to the injury.

If it can be proved that the rider “knew better” than to jump over a metal pole–and proof may simply be the rider’s sworn testimony that s/he was told by other trainers, or read in respected publications, that jumping over metal could be dangerous–that could constitute contributory negligence. If it could be proved that the rider “knew better” than to jump over a metal pole yet continued to do so, following the rider’s “free will,” that could constitute contributory negligence. And if it could be proved that the rider returned to the clinic the second day and continued to jump over the metal pole, that could constitute contributory negligence.

Part of the difficulty in this lawsuit is that the sport of jumping is inherently dangerous. What would have to be proved is that metal poles are more dangerous than the norm, that metal poles are less accepted by the general jumping population.

Remember in a civil lawsuit the burden of proof is not “beyond a reasonable doubt” as in criminal cases, but “the greater weight of evidence.” That means, simply, if there is evidence of negligence on the clinician’s part (setting up devices which can be dangerous, or more dangerous than other jumps), but also evidence of contributory negligence on the rider’s part (continuing to participate in a situation known to dangerous), then it’s up to the jury to decide which party’s argument holds the greater weight–which party is “more wrong.”

The wild card in this whole thing, of course, would be the jury. Remember the case where the plaintiff held a cup of hot coffee in her lap, it spilled, she was burned, she sued for and was awarded millions (which was appealed, if I remember, and reduced)–all for doing something that she probably knew better than to do.

There were also comments in above posts about sanctions against the clinician by the AHSA or other official bodies. I’m not conversant with AHSA regulations, but I’m not sure how sanctions can be ordered. Even though many people agree the clinician should have known better, the incident is still an accident–no deliberate intent to injure this horse–a much different type of accident than, say, administering too much medication too close to show time.

Which isn’t to say that the AHSA can’t make a statement condemning unsafe training practices. An official statement may seem to be so much nothing–and perhaps it is–but it would serve a purpose. The statement could serve as “official disapproval” and could also help deflect any criticisms from extreme animal rights groups, a concern of a writer in an above post. It would acknowledge, responsibly and maturely, a problem in the sport and would express official intolerance of the unsafe practice.

A statement of regret from clinician would also be an appropriate and honorable response. It would be satisfying to read one.

Some posters have expressed outrage that the clinic was continued. Recall that car races, football games, and even equestrian competitions–turf and track racing, eventing, rodeo–continue after grave injury to the participants. While I know how I would have responded, I just can’t condemn the clinician and other participants for coming back the second day. I can agree that it was a poor decision to use the metal pole again.

And I cannot condemn the passion and outrage–what other readers have deemed as hatred–in these posts. I admire people who think, but I also admire those who feel.

[system]

Many thanks to Erin and Tricia for paying attention to all of this. But let’s keep some perspective. Yes, there is apparently a “legal” or regulatory issue as to whether this occurred on show grounds. There is, however, another more ethical issue. If, as I understand it, this steel pole is illegal under AHSA rules, should it be FORGIVEN or excused simply because it MAY have happened off of the grounds? Who cares? It is still something that should not have been there…

[Ruby_G_Weber]

Enough already!!! I have read too much SPECULATION regarding the ACCIDENT in WPB. One should be concerned about the long term ramifications of such negative publicity. I for one would like to see this topic put to rest before someone with absolutely no knowledge of horses, horse shows, eventing, training, etc. gets winds of this. That is a frightening thought. One should, if they love the sport so much, do everything they can to promote and as much as they can to squelch the “dirty laundry”.

Unfortunately, because of the circumstances, this ACCIDENT could have long term implications. I think ENOUGH ALREADY!!!

[SingAlongQuillo]

Carrying on is good, and riding the next day is also good, but to do so as if nothing had happened (which is the idea that I get) is the problem…
I guess, though, we don’t really know if he took a break to discuss it with the other riders, but if he replaced the pole i’m guessing no.
He’s only human, and I highly doubt anybody riding with him expects him to be perfect… personally, in any of those riders shoes, I’d have more respect for him admitting that the pole was a stupid idea and learning from the mistake (of putting it up in the first place), but it sounds like he’s above all that…

I guess when the facts come out we’ll know… but I’m curious to know how much of those facts will be covered up for the sake of George’s apparent pride and ‘reputation’

[Pat]

SGray, I still think that the AHSA has NO authority in this matter. It happened in an area not part of the show grounds. The AHSA can only control what goes on at a show.

The only person that can cry foul is the owner of the horse, and possibly the rider if they are not the same person.

I think we have a right to be outraged by this incident. For years people have looked to this man for guidance because was supposed to be the father of equitation. And now this happens…

I think this disscussion did calm down a bit and then that rude little Cowboy person got our knickers in a twist again.

[Astraled]

gee, extra jump cups on the standards are dangerous but metal poles are fine. It’s absolutely sickening! Can’t trust anybody these days

[system]

Does anyone know who the horse/rider involved were?

[Becca]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MB Stark:
Again I am in agreement with you Kathy Johnson, This is NOT a man that badgers or insults everyone who rides with him. Obviously 99% of the people who are contributing to this board have not ever ridden with this extremely talented teacher. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So SO many of the comments that have been made on this post are based on ntohing. Its slightly ridiculous. i KNOW mr. Morris has earned a huge amount of his respect honestly. This incident was horrible. I have my opinions on it. But he does NOT badger every student, the public has very verylimited knowledge as to what goes on on the inside, how he is with many of his students, and what he is like as a person. Judgements can be made based on fact, and personal knowlegde, but the grapevine? Really.