J.Turner, I agree completely. Usually, I drop in here just to read in quiet amusement the really mundane things that upset us horsefolk…but this blows my mind. GM says to jump a metal pole which kills a horse, then press on like, shake it off, it happens…Like J. Turner, I grew up a Pony Clubber. It’s a shame we all couldn’t grow up keeping the love of horses and horsemanship first in our minds. I think some need to think about why they are showing in the first place. Is the horse the tool or the reason?
barngirl: You a backyard rider too? <G> I’ve a feeling I’m the only one who isn’t up near the top and knowledgeable to boot… augh…
I love horse shows, but have only done small, localized, “unrated” ones… schooling shows, a couple of “real” shows but still very localized. And the amount of people chattering away about how wonderful the school horse they were riding was, or how wonderful their horse was, and the amount of people wandering around bareback after their classes were done etc was amazing. I think as soon as you get to the higher levels, the emphasis on “FUN” and simply achieving your personal best is lost in the run for the prestige, novelty, and money. And then the horrible stuff starts happening.
And yet, these same trainers searching for the prestige are teaching their young riders that they MUST win at all cost, and those young riders will grow to be the next generation of top “respected” trainers. Something is VERY wrong with this picture.
I’ve much more respect for people like my instructor and all the other instructor/trainer’s out there that preach SAFETY and HORSES WELLBEING before all else. Afterall, without a horse, a rider is not a rider, but without a rider, a horse is still a horse. We need them, they don’t need us (excluding the care that domestic horses need, of course), the least we can do is be fair to them. Sending a trusting animal who is giving his heart to you over a metal pole is an abuse of that trust, and certainly not fair to the horse…
My trainer is in WPB, rides with George, and had not even heard of the incident. She did say, however, that he is still using the metal rod, although did not say whether it was used as an offset or for poling.
Kathy- an offset is almost a “transparent” thin pole, usually made of bamboo and usually wrapped in grey duck tape. It’s placed on a jump as a back rail for schooling. Essentially, horses cannot see it- so you ride them to the “back rail” of the jump, they knock right into it- you come back without the offset, jump the jump again, and they usually jump much much higher.
Unfortunately, I have been asked to do this on occasion, but more often in the hunters than the jumpers. I do not agree with it and my heart would jump in my throat everytime! Like many riders who truly respect and believe in their trainers, it’s often hard to say “no, I won’t do it.” However, this whole incident, regardless of what we learn about the true story, will make it a heck of a lot easier!
As someone who has looked up to GM for years, and rides with several students of his, I am incredibly disheartened with his involvement, but to Erin’s point, will withhold judgement until he speaks.
The incident reportedly took place in one of the private leased schooling rings on the show grounds. The ring did belong to a prominent trainer. The horse had been asked to jump a skinny fence, bumped the pipe, kicking it out in front of him. He was “speared” directly through the heart and lungs and instantly bled to death.
As a non-hunter-jumper person, what would they have usually used for jumping at a clinic like this? Wood, or plastic? I us rubber ties and a wooden post to lunge my horse over. One more question: if nothing tragic had happened at this clinic, would anyone have said anything to the man about the dangers of using metal? Did anyone bother to complain about the metal before they began jumping…or was everyone taking the mind-my-own-business approach? I dont even know who this man is! Is he that intimidating that no one can even ask him a question? Who is he god himself or something? (oops…I mean Col. Podhajsky ) or maybe its the audience, was it made up of all children or all adults so terrified they cant even speak up? If I saw something dangerous I would speak up and say it, , I could care less who the man was. I’m just trying to get a better picture of the whole picture here.
I just learned about this through Kenny Kraus’ email, and now the boards. All I can say on the subject is that I am thoroughly disgustied. It is obvious that the person in question is not truely a horseman. Although yes it is an accident, possibly a one in a million, the one in a million chance could have easily been avoided. Isn’t the first rule of the FEI that the welfare of the horse is paramount? I cannot accept that using illigal equipment (well, much more than illigal) to make a horse more careful is in the horse’s best welfare. I think, however, that this person might just get off scott free. If this was anyone else, they would never work in this bussiness again. Also, just think, what if the horse was not killed, but the rider? Can you imagine what the consequences might be.
I have friends that ride with this person, and the other day, I was at their barn. I remember in a Between Rounds article from this past summer (that my trainer made copies for for every junior in the barn) one peice of advice that he gave, was when you meet someone, to look them in the eye and shake their hand. While I was at their barn, Chris Kappler, another trainer, shook my hand and was very polite. However, George just ignorned me, as I stood with a group of his junior riders that he was talking to. I thought back to this article, a bit puzzled. I also remember in this article that George Morris spoke about the care and wellbeing of the horses being first in his book. The use of an iron rail shows that this may be a statement that he preaches but obviously does not practice. Also, he must not value the safety and wellbeing of his riders to subject them to this. I think that action needs to be taken against this, to show that in a bussiness where name matters so much, when the stakes get high, it doesn’t matter who you are. Although this is obviously a terrible accident, I think that a lot of good examples could come from how this is handled.
While I will reserve my judgement on the WPB incident, it does bring to light an industry-wide problem…everyone seems to want to “hurry up and get there”!
The show industry itself moves at a break-neck pace. But we, the customers, fall right into the trap…we want to hurry up and get somewhere…but where?
Why not slow down, enjoy the growth, development and training of a good horse, or a top notch breeding program…as Robert Dover has said “Enjoy the journey, not just the destination”.
Do we forget that we, the customers, call the shots? We can move at our own pace, and be certain our training dollars are properly and ethically spent. We do not have to support training short-cuts, poor horse care or sportsmen with little integrity. It is up to us to shape our horseworld!
I’m sick to my stomach, I’m angry and I’m frustrated. Why don’t people use simple common sense? Seeing that a metal pipe could cause serious damage or death is not exactly rocket science. It doesn’t matter if this is George Morris, or Joe Blow down the road, anyone should be able to see that it should not be done!
Maybe in the dressage discipline there isn’t so much of what we see in the hunter/jumper discipline is because in dressage there’s not much money??? Not alot of prize money that’s for sure. Perhaps it keeps dressage more “grounded?” Just a thought…
If GM is on top of the heap, then we are in a heap, of trouble… 
We need to redefine what “horseman” is.
This accident was not ‘negligence’ it was STUPIDITY. A metal pole on the jump was not an accident. It was deliberate. It is obvious that a metal pole can be dangerous yet it was knowingly plced there and a trainer knowingly asked a student to jump it - and so it was done.
Lessons to learn from this?
~no one is invincible and just b/c someone is a legend doesn’t mean they are right. Always think and ask questions before just blindly doing something b/c someone told you too. If only the rider in question had thought to say NO NO NO this wouldn’t have happened.
~poling is bad - what a wake up call. God, it’s not enough to just scare and ruin horses we have to kill one before we learn???
~not to condemn before we hear all the facts. these rumors about continuing the lesson with a dead horse in the ring, or cleaning off the pole and continuing sound like junk. Let’s get some more detailed info before we let ourselves run wil here!
~To as always think before we act. We and only we can keep ourselves and our horses safe and we have a responsiblity to do so.
Instead of simply bashing george and getting all upset let’s use this as a chance to take a step back and LEARN from it…to see what changes needto be made and all.
kenneth kraus
I don’t read hatred in any of these posts. There is a difference between outrage, blind outrage and justified outrage, and hatred. And grief. There is alot of grief and pain for the horse.
I’ve been watching this thread grow from a freinds bookmark and am sorry to say, from from someone around horses, cattle for a long, long time-how sad how little you really know about your own animal and how their trained? Do you honestly think horses jump high for sheer love of the human on their back? No-it’s known as self preservation and being domesticated-If your into show jumping-this is the reality of your sport. How many horses broke down for the owner/trainer of Secretariat, before he came along-yet are they discussed? Do dressage horses all piaffe along in the field? No-We recently watched one flip and break its riders pelvis in the ring (when hands are unforgiving they are as deadly as any metal pipe).
If this man your all criticizing-who I really don’t even know about-has been at the top for 30yrs-shame on all of you for being hypocrites w/ blinders on, beating your chests about the poor horse. Your blaming him when its all around you?
Please, irregardless of metal poles, telephone poles, bamboo poles, wood poles, cotton poles,- many horses have not fit the vocation chosen for them-due to human error and the fact, for christ sake they’re horses, not “the black stallion” & “Jake, the wonder horse”-they are herd animals w/ a vocation that requires them or they are unneccessary and will be sent to slaughter, or eventually, not bred for. Seen any good pulling horses lately?
This is the reality of animals in sport-just like the riders, some of them get injured, some of them die. If your smart you learn from it-(I think some heads were in the sand for, oh, say, 25 years) At least rodeo is up front about it.
By the way, how many here are crying for the poor cows and calves that get hung on a hook to make the fine leather on your boots and saddles. Yep, their domesticated to, w/ nicer eyes. Too bad they can’t jump and piaffe with flowing manes like the horses.
Jumping in one more time…
Two things I want to bring up…
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I talked briefly with a trainer friend who is in WPB and SAW this thing happen. She saw about 90% of the incident and confirmed that the horse died quickly, and that indeed the pole bounced right back up at the horse. More importantly that the Pole was not an offset or placed on top of the top rail, but that the WHOLE jump was made of metal rails. I forgot to ask her how long the horse remained in the ring. Yup, that’s more hearsay, but I feel that she is a reliable person. She’s pretty upset by the whole thing.
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This idea that because “everyone else does it” it’s okay really doesn’t sit well. I say, if everyone else jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you do it too?
So, then since it’s a normal practice to stack NSAID’s, give long term bute,or give a horse IV bute right before a class, then that’s all okay too?
I think that whole arguement has a leaky bottom!!
I am just stunned…to continue the clinic!
Did you all catch the post on the Sport Horse board about Grande Saber, the stallion who died at Hunterdon not long ago? According to owner Mary Tell, Saber had been quite ill for 6 days and was dying by the time they thought to ship him to a clinic. What is with this guy??? Does he care nothing for the horses? And the clinicians showing up the next day to sit at the feet of God. Damn all of them.
Hilltop,
Where did you find all of the specifics on the incident?
>But this is a man who insults and badgers every student that rides with him …
This is a false and defamatory comment. Please stop.
in response to wulfpac,woa back up…any amateur /owner jumper rider showing/lessoning with GM IS NOT A NOVICE rider by any stretch of the word!!!DO NOT CONFUSE AMATEUR WITH NOVICE they are not the same.Jumping metal pipes is apparently very common at home.I do not do it but… so many do with out any accidents.I have investigated this quite extensively and I am surprised but…it seems that the metal pipe thing is common.So common that no one not one person out of like 30or 40 friends and most rode as children many are pros now thought the metal pipe was unsafe,nor could they relate any incidents where ANY injuries had ever occured.Keeping this in mind how many horses have flipped and been hurt jumping a combination or… a cross countyr obstacle???My point is as before it is a horrible accident particularly because it happened at a location adjacent to show grounds,GM was involved,a waiting target(so to speak)but if one were to take the ratio of successful jumps involving a metal pipe against the number of unsuccessdful jumps involving a metal pipe.It would apparently be low.like 2000 to 5.Now I have never used a metalpipe and it would neer occur to me to do so but apparently others are doing it with success(ie no accidents) so in all hnesty I can not say the jump is so outlandish.It seems that it is as I have said before a tragic accident,that Mr Morris could not have imagined.
Isn’t George Morris the trainer who gives advice in the magazine “Practical Horseman.”
Until an actual new story comes out written by an unbiased journalist, I will try to withold judgement, since what we read here is heresay.
I will put aside the issue of the metal pole until it is confirmed. But as to the death of the horse:
The clinic must continue for the sake of the other riders and auditors, not because of their Olympic aspirations but because of their psyches. To witness the death of any horse or rider is a major trauma. It can undermine the courage of the best of us.
So, I say more power to Mr. Morris for continuing the clinic and I say that my
heartfelt wishes go out to the rider who lost a horse and got on another to ride and jump the next day. To me, that shows tremendous courage. To get back on another horse is not heartless at all–it is the reality of riding.
When I was young, a friend and I were trail riding miles from home. As we were cantering, her horse had a heart attack. He died in mid-stride and went down underneath her. She took a terrible fall. But worse yet, she lost her best friend. She did not want to get on my pony, but finally we rode double back to the barn together. It was the best thing we could have done.
I know my opinion will be unpopular. Please understand that if actual neglect or abuse occured I am as outraged as the rest of you. Please read my post carefully before condemning me. I understand totally the difference between a natural death and a bizarre accident. Even if a metal pole were used indiscriminately, the death was a bizarre accident.
But try to understand that the death of a horse or rider, whatever they are doing, is a natural part of horseback riding. As a rider, I can think of no nobler way to die than from the back of my horse. To me, there is no nobler way for my horse to die than in doing what I ask of him.
