There is a local dressage schooling show series that usually uses USDF L graduates, but one of the shows this year is having someone judge who isn’t a L graduate, licensed judge, or even rated show experience judge a show. Is this acceptable or normal?
I have no idea how this person ended up judging, but it seems like a rip-off to pay $25/test to be judged by someone with zero credentials. Thoughts?
Totally acceptable.
Schooling shows do not have to conform to any regulations/requirements/etc.*
But you also do not have to show at their venue if you don’t like their rules or judge.
Our local schooling shows will use anyone who has showed 2nd level or above. While it’s nice to have a licensed judge, it’s not necessary. If you want a guarantee of a licensed judge, go to a rated show.
$25 per class sounds like a lot for a schooling show to me regardless!
That said, judging a schooling show is a completely thankless job and at times no one with credentials is available, or someone is a trainer who really knows what they are doing. Without knowing specifics of the situation I wouldn’t condemn the decision to hire this person right off the bat.
We go to a show series that uses non-licensed judges, and they still manage to get good quality judges for lower levels. Once and a while they get a dud, (such as the one that just missed scores on the test), but then they don’t get them back, and we just accept that it was a day out for practice!
I have judged 4H dressage (training level and first) even though I am not licensed: it would be difficult for them to fit a licensed judge in their budget.
Thanks for the feedback. L graduates aren’t “licensed” either, but they do have to have shown second level in USDF/USEF shows with three scores 60% or higher. Works out great since most schooling shows are Second level and under. The particular person hasn’t shown over training level and not in a USDF/USEF show at all. I guess I’m surprised that anyone could “judge” a schooling dressage show.
Is this a show run by a GMO, or just run by a barn?
Our GMO has minimum qualifications for our schooling show judges. L Graduate, or shown multiple horses to 4th level, I believe.
If it’s just a ‘barn show’ then yes, it may be a lower level judge. Once you know who that is, you can decide if they are knowledgeable to warrant showing.
[QUOTE=ShouldersBack;7443661]
The particular person hasn’t shown over training level and not in a USDF/USEF show at all. I guess I’m surprised that anyone could “judge” a schooling dressage show.[/QUOTE]
I personally wouldn’t waste my time. Riding the test in front of your current instructor will provide much more valuable and likely accurate feedback 
There are many judges in the area (licensed and L grads) which could be used. The question is how many people will support a SS without using those (and who is making money from the show). Perhaps you should offer to set up the show and get different judges.
[QUOTE=ShouldersBack;7443661]
Thanks for the feedback. L graduates aren’t “licensed” either, but they do have to have shown second level in USDF/USEF shows with three scores 60% or higher. Works out great since most schooling shows are Second level and under. The particular person hasn’t shown over training level and not in a USDF/USEF show at all. I guess I’m surprised that anyone could “judge” a schooling dressage show.[/QUOTE]
Have they Evented? I’d think someone who’s done any FEI-level eventing might well be able to judge the Intro/Training/scattered 1st tests you usually see at a dressage schooling show.
Our GMO uses L graduates at least, though I’ve done a few barn or PC shows that use professionals who’ve gone up to FEI-level but aren’t judges, and I’m perfectly fine with that. They’re well-qualified professionals whose options I put some weight in, even if they haven’t gone to judges’ training. Someone with no experience above Training? I’d probably save my money, unless it was a very green horse who just needed the experience of getting out and going somewhere.
[QUOTE=ShouldersBack;7443661]
Thanks for the feedback. L graduates aren’t “licensed” either, but they do have to have shown second level in USDF/USEF shows with three scores 60% or higher. Works out great since most schooling shows are Second level and under. The particular person hasn’t shown over training level and not in a USDF/USEF show at all. I guess I’m surprised that anyone could “judge” a schooling dressage show.[/QUOTE]
L Graduates haven’t just shown to 2nd level. 'They need references . They have to go through a fairly rigorous program of scribing a set amount of hours, 4 weekend long training sessions with a show at the end which they are judged on their judging. They have a oral exam and a pretty long written exam. It is an expensive and comprehensive program. So give your L Graduates a little more credit. They take their job seriously.
Where I first showed all our schooling shows were judged by “r” judges; they wouldn’t even think of having even an “L” judge!! Where I am now they use either “L” judges or riders who have their Silver or Gold medals.
Why the difference? Where I was there were lots and lots of local people who were “r” judges whereas here in OK there aren’t. So I guess it depends on the local “tradition”.
[QUOTE=lflowers;7443928]
L Graduates haven’t just shown to 2nd level. 'They need references . They have to go through a fairly rigorous program of scribing a set amount of hours, 4 weekend long training sessions with a show at the end which they are judged on their judging. They have a oral exam and a pretty long written exam. It is an expensive and comprehensive program. So give your L Graduates a little more credit. They take their job seriously.:)[/QUOTE]
Thank you, I was about to post this too! There is a huge jump between someone who has “show at 2nd level” and someone who has graduated from the L Program! It is a major educational and financial commitment. Three intensive weekends of education, three weekends of intensive testing, and lots of homework inbetween. Plus documented sitting and scribing hours.
I have ridden in a few schooling shows with non-qualified “judges” and was always disappointed. The feedback was not good, the comments were often irrelevant or even incorrect. OTOH, most of the L’s I’ve ridden under may be a little “soft” in scores, but the comments and placings were pretty much correct. Generally, I am looking more for experience for my young horses then I am looking for scores at a schooling show, but I do think schooling shows should strive for qualified officials!
[QUOTE=lflowers;7443928]
L Graduates haven’t just shown to 2nd level. 'They need references . They have to go through a fairly rigorous program of scribing a set amount of hours, 4 weekend long training sessions with a show at the end which they are judged on their judging. They have a oral exam and a pretty long written exam. It is an expensive and comprehensive program. So give your L Graduates a little more credit. They take their job seriously.:)[/QUOTE]
Agree with lflowers. My dressage trainer just completed the L program and she is a GP trainer/rider.
I’ve never seen a schooling show around here that didn’t use at least an L judge. Also 25 a class is about normal around here for a schooling show. I myself would probably not waste my time if they are not at least a L graduate. L judges maybe the lower tier but they go through a lot to get that letter by their name and that is respect in my book
Sounds quite odd but I have seen stranger.
Schooling shows are just that - schooling shows. No rules. So just save your money and pick another event with a more qualified judge.
I’ve been to a lot of schooling shows in my area and the L graduates are definitely not soft on scores! I looked them up and there’s everything from 40’s to 70’s at most of the shows. They aren’t afraid to give low scores when warranted and they give high scores when it’s deserved.
Many of the L graduates are people I know and they’ve all shown FEI level. I’m in a good area for horse sports so that probably explains the high level and quality of judge.
FYI, the proper term for some who has graduated from the “L” program is “L graduate”. It is incorrect to say “L judge”. The USDF is constantly trying to correct this terminology.
That would be me. I call them L graduates and L judges. May not be correct for sure but if they are judging me to me that’s a judge. But I know the term is graduate. Sorry for that. 
I don’t know about you but I go to a schooling show to school. Judges are mostly for window dressing.
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