The rated shows I’ve shown in around here at training level at the time and was about 4 years ago I paid almost 300 for 2 classes and a stall. The stall was for one noght even though we went home. Couldn’t get a day stall. So if I did go for three days I’d be well at the 600 mark if not a little more. The reason I did one day was because I could only afford one day at the time and I wasn’t trying to qualify for anything. It was just to see how I compared there to schooling shows. With my new guy now I’m hoping to do some rated by the end of this show season. Fingers crossed.
[QUOTE=ShouldersBack;7449527]
Furthermore, it isn’t about whether I approve of the judge or not, it’s about someone with no credentials to speak of being hired as a judge. It just doesn’t seem right that just anyone can do it, there is quite a bit of technicalities involved.[/QUOTE]
It’s not really any different than, say, a neighborhood group deciding to put on a football game and having Neighbor Ned be the umpire. Neighbor Ned may not have the knowledge of an NFL umpire or even an umpire for the organized city recreational league, but hey – it’s a fun afternoon out for people who want to go and aren’t too worried about Neighbor Ned’s knowledge (or lack thereof) of the rules.
Just because it’s not the show venue/level of judging that you want does not make it wrong or valueless to others, who may be looking for a different type of experience. It’s the beauty of sports – there’s something available for people at all levels of intensity.
[QUOTE=Halt Near X;7449623]
It’s not really any different than, say, a neighborhood group deciding to put on a football game and having Neighbor Ned be the umpire. Neighbor Ned may not have the knowledge of an NFL umpire or even an umpire for the organized city recreational league, but hey – it’s a fun afternoon out for people who want to go and aren’t too worried about Neighbor Ned’s knowledge (or lack thereof) of the rules.
Just because it’s not the show venue/level of judging that you want does not make it wrong or valueless to others, who may be looking for a different type of experience. It’s the beauty of sports – there’s something available for people at all levels of intensity.[/QUOTE]
Your analogy is a bit flawed, unless the neighborhood football team is requiring a $25 fee per game to play. In which case, I think that may change the dynamic a bit and I bet that players might care if Neighbor Ned has ever umpired, or even played football in high school.
Local ABC Sport Club competitions, then. In all the places I’ve grown up/lived (and I have moved a lot in my life) there have always been local little independent whatevers putting on games and events with qualified or not qualified judges/umpires/powers that be for some nominal fee.
[QUOTE=ShouldersBack;7449527]
I’m not going to enter the show, I stated that on page one.
I already ride with an experienced trainer, who is also an L graduate in addition to FEI level competitor; and I go to SS because I can’t afford the big shows and for the observations/suggestions from someone as experienced, or more so, as my instructor (who also judges at SS). Sometimes its good to get insight and observations from other trainers/judges.
Furthermore, it isn’t about whether I approve of the judge or not, it’s about someone with no credentials to speak of being hired as a judge. It just doesn’t seem right that just anyone can do it, there is quite a bit of technicalities involved.[/QUOTE]
So, what credentials/experience does the judge in question have ? One assumes that the organizer did not just get somebody off the street.
Let’s imagine a scenario where Nick P. is judging our local schooling show. After all, he’s a GP rider, right?
Aghhhh no. Lol. And that’s the problem with not knowing the judge if not at least a L graduate. I would show under someone if I needed to get my boy out but if I’m going for scores and feedback then no
[QUOTE=schwung;7449866]
Let’s imagine a scenario where Nick P. is judging our local schooling show. After all, he’s a GP rider, right?[/QUOTE]
Then his fans would jump all over the chance to show under him. COTH and Facebook would explode from the snark. People who had never heard of him might attend the show and would be turned off and/or impressed by him. Regardless, he’d arguably do less harm on a rider-by-rider basis during the five minutes they were in the ring with him than if they took a clinic or took lessons with him.
At the end of the day, the world would still be spinning.
[QUOTE=Equibrit;7449826]
So, what credentials/experience does the judge in question have ? One assumes that the organizer did not just get somebody off the street.[/QUOTE]
As previously stated a few times; this person has no show record and is not an L graduate, licensed judge, or active competitor. A google search turns up nothing; no training site, no rated show record (but did show at a SS in Intro A last year), no mention of any upper level experience that one would expect a judge would have.
If this was a no charge, go get the opinion of another amateur rider, type thing that would be different. But this is a show that is taking money from people.
If I were paying Neighbor Ned to umpire the game, he should at least know the rules and have played a bit in the past. If Neighbor Ned had no experience or knowledge of the game yet wanted to play umpire and collect a fee to do so I would consider him to have a narcissistic personality disorder.
[QUOTE=ShouldersBack;7450036]
If I were paying Neighbor Ned to umpire the game, he should at least know the rules and have played a bit in the past. If Neighbor Ned had no experience or knowledge of the game yet wanted to play umpire and collect a fee to do so I would consider him to have a narcissistic personality disorder.[/QUOTE]
How do you know this person ISN’T an event rider…who is just as experienced with dressage as a straight dressage person? Do you KNOW who the judge is? Just because someone isn’t a liscensed judge doesn’t mean they will not do a perfectly fine job at a schooling show.
I would be surpised if they didn’t know something…you just may not know them.
And again…for many of us…we wouldn’t and DON’t care…as when I go to a schooling show…I’m not going for the judging. I’m going to school in the competition setting. So I really could care less if it is someone’s mom who knows nothing…I’m still happy to pay the show management for the class and organizing things so I can go practice taking my horse somewhere strange, warming up, going into the ring and doing a test.
[QUOTE=ShouldersBack;7450036]
If I were paying Neighbor Ned to umpire the game, he should at least know the rules and have played a bit in the past. If Neighbor Ned had no experience or knowledge of the game yet wanted to play umpire and collect a fee to do so I would consider him to have a narcissistic personality disorder.[/QUOTE]
I think you should just take your concern to the organizer and ask for a clarification for using this judge. She might be very qualified. She might be the only one willing to judge on that particular weekend. A simple communication is all it takes. Complaining about it on this forum is useless because nobody knows who this judge is, and nobody can say your concern is valid or not. As mentioned, you want guaranteed a licensed judge, go to rated shows; schooling shows have their own rules. I personally think it is unlikely that a show organizer will just hire some someone who is as unqualified as you described (no show, no training, basically no dressage experience).
[QUOTE=Gloria;7450111]
I think you should just take your concern to the organizer and ask for a clarification for using this judge. She might be very qualified. She might be the only one willing to judge on that particular weekend. A simple communication is all it takes. Complaining about it on this forum is useless because nobody knows who this judge is, and nobody can say your concern is valid or not. As mentioned, you want guaranteed a licensed judge, go to rated shows; schooling shows have their own rules. I personally think it is unlikely that a show organizer will just hire some someone who is as unqualified as you described (no show, no training, basically no dressage experience).[/QUOTE]
I didn’t think the OP was complaining, just asking a question as to what the rules were. So now she knows that there are no rules governing the qualifications for judging dressage at a schooling show. Then the question morphed from there into “would you go to a dressage show that was judged by a non-L Graduate or licensed judge”? Consensus on that varied wildly based on why the person is going to a schooling show to begin with.
Around here, schooling shows are still pretty organized events, and there are only a few venues that host them. I don’t know of any barns that have their own barn shows that include dressage, so perhaps it would help when I explain that the 3-4 venues that I can think of that have dressage schooling shows, all have a series (4-5 shows per year) and offer high points and year-end awards. For many, they are the only dressage shows in financial reach.
I think I know who the OP is referring to, she is not an eventer.
Thanks MaisieMae. I also am an “L” graduate with distinction who graduated from the program 21 years ago. I have also show upper levels. I still am learning to be a better judge and scribe for rated judges when I can. You are right on with your comments.
[QUOTE=MaisieMae;7449063]
Full disclosure: I am an “L” graduate with distinction who has been judging for 10 years. Have shown thru PSG.
If you are selecting a schooling show based just on the quality of the assessment you will be getting for your ride, choose to show where you will be judged by an “L” graduate or licensed official. At this point you cannot become a licensed official in the US without having gone through the “L” program and graduating with distinction. This means many hours of learning a methodology for assessing and judging horses. Anyone who has gone thru the “L” Program and become a graduate has done quite a bit of study and hard work to learn a technique and method by which to judge.
While being a Silver or Gold Medalist means you have shown and attained a certain level of expertise in riding and showing, it does not necessarily mean that you have a methodology for arriving at scores. I am not saying that a Silver or Gold Medal rider doesn’t have some logical method for arriving at scores. What I am saying is that you have no way of knowing what that method might be, and if it is in any way in line with how a licensed official would arrive at a score.
If you show for an “L” graduate you can at least be sure that they have been trained in a methodology. That being said, there are all kinds of reasons for showing at a Schooling Show. If it’s just to get out and you don’t care about the judging or score the judge’s credentials may not matter to you.[/QUOTE]
I use schooling shows for mileage. If the person judging my test is not someone whose opinion I respect, nothing lost. I am just basically paying an arena fee. If I value the judges opinion and respect them as a judge, trainer, rider, etc. then it a is a bonus!
Got you, schwung. Thank you for the clarification.
Discussing away… I don’t go to schooling shows much, but that is because our rated shows are very reasonable, costing about the same or even less than what are mentioned for some of schooling shows.
