So, we were talking in the barn the other day and trying to come up with an estimate of how many horses have Secretariat in their bloodlines. Its seems impossible to determine but does anyone want to take a guess?
He’s probably in most US breds given the success of his best grandsons, Storm Cat and AP Indy. There are others, like Dehere and Gone West, but I think SC and AP have had the bigger genetic impact. Secretariat didn’t have a lot of success with direct sons, but was superbly successful when he came through the damline.
Both of those stallions (AP, SC) have tons of successful sons that have spread across the globe - Giant’s Causeway has made his way through non-US books like IRE/GB.
Lots of very commercial stallions with Secretariat at least twice if not three or four times. Munnings (Speightstown) comes to mind.
I think I’d be surprised if a US-bred horse didn’t have him in their pedigree, at this point. It’s not common, but it’s not exactly rare either.
thanks, that’s a super helpful perspective
There is data on this, loosely. I can try to pull it up for you this weekend when I have more time.
But in a nutshell: Secretariat’s “youngest” offspring would be 31 this year. So there are no active sons or daughters still breeding.
Secretariat didn’t leave us a lot of successful sons to carry on his sire line. There is no grandson carrying on his sire line with any success (again, this weekend when I have more time I can try to see what, if anything, is active).
Secretariat has had a HUGE impact on pedigrees through his daughters. Two of the most successful sires of the late 20th/early 21st century were Storm Cat and AP Indy-- both have Secretariat as their broodmare sire. Storm Cat still has 45 active sons in North America; AP Indy has 36 active sons in North America, and that’s not counting his incredibly successful grandsons.
Then you have many, many successful broodmares by him contributing to pedigrees of horses who didn’t go on to become top sires.
So bottom line: Secretariat blood is alive and well in the TB today.
thanks for both. Texarcana, don’t spend time on this, it was just one of those things we were batting around. I just did a query of my retired OTTB to see if he had Secretariat, and he doesn’t anywhere but he does have Seattle Slew, Bold Ruler and War Admiral as notable names among others.
If you want fun facts on your TBs pedigree, I know both @beowulf or myself would be happy to share.
That would be awesome. Punctuate, 2000 Slewicide/Wild Western Woman (that name is so great…)
Anything you can tell me would be fun to know…
Seeing that a Secretariat granddaughter competed ib the Atlanta olympics I believe, I expect his bloodline drifted intp sporthorse breeding as well.
Back in the late '70’s I worked for Tommy Root at Mockingbird Farm in Ocala. We had the first Secretariat colt in training. He was big and red and a total klutz. Don’t know if he ever found his legs in the right corner at the right time - I didn’t last long at that farm - but it’s so interested to see those bloodlines in sport horses as well.
Just a fun fact. I am in Australia and Secretariat is back in my boy’s bloodline.
So I’m sorry if I repeat what you already know:
Your horse is by Slewacide, a Seattle Slew son whose biggest claim to fame is probably the fact that he was the broodmare sire (dam sire) of Kentucky Derby winner Funny Cide. Something unusual for a sire, especially for one with a pretty long breeding career, is that Slewacide didn’t have a succsesful race record-- he raced once and I can only assume he was injured and ended up retiring on a farm in OK where he stook his entire career. Slewacide actually turned out to be a pretty good sire, especially considering he wasn’t breeding the best mares in OK. He had a major G1 winner in his first crop of foals and went on to be the leading OK sire for a long time.
Your horse is full brother to a pretty good stakes winner named Wild Wild West who won over $300K running in Iowa, Alberta, etc. That’s not an easy task, as those races don’t win you a lot of money.
Bold Ego was not a name I was familiar with; he spent most of his stud career out west. But he was a promising 2 & 3 year old and actually ran in all 3 legs of the Triple Crown in 1981 (didn’t hit the board in any of them, but it’s not easy to get there). He won the G1 Arkansas Stakes, which is a prestigious Kentucky Derby prep race, along with quite a few other stakes races.
Buckpasser was a leading racehorse and leading sire in his day. His big claim to fame is almost never finished worse than third and had an unprecedented streak of winning 15 stakes races in a row, including highly prestigious races like the Travers Stakes, Met Mile, and Jockey Club Gold Cup. He then went on to be a leading sire, and ultimately a leading broodmare sire.
Nodouble was a horse who proved himself on the racetrack, winning a lot of the same prestigious stakes races mentioned above. He then went on to be another leading sire and broodmare sire. The Australian Star Kingdom line he’s from is an incredibly prolific line for jumpers and upper level eventers, too.
I tend to stop at the 3rd generation… I’m kind of rambling on at this point…
That is SUPER cool information. Thank you. I don’t know a lot about tb stuff so I love hearing about his blood lines
I had a Secretariat grandson out of an unremarkable line really. By Grey Legion out of Robyn Banks, who was by No Robbery. Name of Robn Run. He was in my opinion an absolutely classic Thoroughbred. I had him 25 years, lost him when he was 33. He was an iron horse and essentially flawless in conformation. I never really did him justice as a rider and we battled Lyme disease for years so there was all that potential as an eventer that never got explored.
Whether it was the Secretariat or the other, now somewhat obscure lines in his pedigree that made him what he was, I don’t know. But he made me fall in love with thoroughbreds and also made me never want another, I can’t replace him.
A last picture of him taken shortly before he died.
Thoroughbreds are truly remarkable, what a lovely tribute to your horse
Something I remembered that you may care to know:
I worked for a sport horse breeder who had a very nice TB mare by Tour D’Or, a Secretariat grandson and probably one of the last sons from the line to have any success as a racing sire.
Anyway… the mare received approval from several WB registries. The European inspectors would always go gaga over Secretariat in her third generation. They had endless good things to say about the influence of Secretariat (to the point where I often wondered, “are you even looking at the mare or just the pedigree?” Ha!). Germany did stand one of Secretariat’s sons after all: General Assembly. They really valued that horse from what I understand.
Best I remember, Bold Ego was a real speed horse.
Slewacide was at Lazy E which was a pretty big deal farm in OK at the time, and sired a couple of grade 1 winners.
Dantina (third dam) was a SW from a good English family and produced multiple G2 winner and decent sire Pass the Tab, multiple G1-placed multiple SW Tomorrow’s Child (dam of G2 SW Tomorrows Cat), and SW Italian Ruler.
Link to Keeneland 2011 catalog page where Dantina is second dam: 1830.pdf (keeneland.com)
Back to Secretariat, I was around a few in the mid 80s and the colts were mostly big, sweet, lazy and very good looking horses. The fillies were a bit sharper temperaments but attractive and easy enough to work with.
Medina Spirit, this years Kentucky Derby winner, has Secretariat through AP Indy and Storm Cat on the top and from Gone West on his Dam’s side.
Your horse; https://www.pedigreequery.com/punctuate2 If you click on the blue highlighted names in his pedigree and click the exclamation point in the heading you will often find information about them. If there is also a square with a little horse in it in the heading, clicking on that will get you a photo.
My mother spent her waning years at a lovely assisted living facility on Cape Cod. Great food, low staff turnover, wonderful personalized care. Staff is not permitted to address residents by their first name. Mrs. W, Dr. S, respects the resident; first names can become too casual. I was Mrs. W’s daughter. I knew I had been there quite a bit when I asked for hot tea. The server brought it out and asked if I wanted the milk. I forgot to ask so he pulled it off the tray and put it on the table. It was the server who stopped to chat at the end of lunch. You’re a horse person, right? I never talked with mom about it. She must have seen the license plate which is WLK TROT.
What a fascinating conversation with someone with extensive experience mostly in dressage. She didn’t own her own horse because her cousin had a large farm nearby. She could ride there. She talked about her cousin’s horse when she was a kid. She said she rarely reveals her cousin’s horse’s name because it was like being chased by paparazzi. She made me promise I wouldn’t reveal it while I was there. She told me Ron was her best friend when she was a kid, and whispered her cousin’s horse’s name: Secretariat. She never got on him, but she and Ron (Turcotte) had lots of fun together.
On another topic…
pedigreequery.com is one half of allbreedpedigree.com. The TB was split off from the rest of the breeds because the databases were getting so huge. We’re talking about millions of horses. Years ago someone tried to claim it was bogus because it was entered by hand.
You can look up a horse in either side get some information free. Subscriptions aren’t particularly expensive and you can get quite a bit of interesting info. Someone told me about it years ago. I had my Paint gelding’s papers so I put him in. It connected with quite a bit of his pedigree. I got a 12-generation pedigree from a woman on eBay who informed me my horse is loaded with TB and she didn’t have all of the stud books so she needed to call in a favor.
When I finished entering everything I was amazed at what the reports told me. I ran the photo report, a few dozen of his ancestors. I know he has one full sibling. HYPP status is available for some horses, his sire is n/H His sire had well over 200 APHA points. I have line breeding with King6, inbreeding with Old Sorrel and Man o’ War. The whopper is the report that lists the genetic influence of every horse in his pedigree, which is in the hundreds. That scratches the surface.
There is one report that I am not shy about. Mr Eternal Fun is the best bred horse in the state of Maine. They used to have the tail-male report but it disappeared several years ago. It lists all of the sires at the top of the pedigree for each generation. His sire is Eternal Rascal and it ends with Darley Arabian. I ran the tail-male for his dam, Double the Fun. Her sire is Chief Double Agent and he goes back to Godolphin Arabian. Love it!
The database been out there for at least 20 years. AQHA and APHA owners will hit the jackpot. I don’t know what other breeds are there. I’m lucky because there aren’t many gaps, like a foundation QH line petering out when Joe Schmoe bred his unidentified stallion to the grade mare down the road.
I forgot about that site! I entered my AQHA and found he, like my OTTB, has Bold Ego inhis blood line. A fun coincidence