Secretariat movie, a dissapointment - Sorry but thats the way I feel

[mighty_mite]

[QUOTE=EponaRoan;5158003]
I remember reading an interview with Penny Chenery where she said that at one point when Sham was trying to go with Secretariat, she was actually rooting for him for a tiny bit because he was so game. I haven’t seen the movie yet, so can’t comment, but a moment like that would be nice to include if it is factual.

There’s a book out on Sham that I hadn’t known about:

http://www.amazon.com/SHAM-Superhorse-Revised-Mary-Walsh/dp/1593305060

Sham - In the Shadow of a Superhorse.[/QUOTE]

Many of you have probably seen the Secretariat statue at the KHP. Years ago when they were still trying to make everything happen and before Penny had her heart attack, I wanted to purchase a paver, but for my horse. I didn’t want to do it unless I cleared it with the people in charge of the statue. So I sent them an email telling them that I wanted to purchase a paver honoring my deceased horse, a former race horse. I was very surprised when Penny replied on my email herself. First she sent me her condolences on the death of my horse and then she went on to tell me that she was thrilled that I wanted to honor my horse with a paver at Secretariat’s statue. Then she said that someone actually purchased a paver for Sham and she was so happy about that because she just loved him and felt so bad that he always came in second to Big Red.

She was very gracious and I saved the email for my horse’s scrap book.

[HappyTalk]

While I admire Penny Chenery, she was not the only woman to operate a racing stable. What about Joan Payson Whitney (Greentree) and Liz Whitney Tippitt (Llangollen)?

I don’t buy the Women’s Lib aspect. She was already “liberated”. Penny went to graduate school for business after WW2. How many women did that back then?

[fooler]

@HappyTalk;5158229

While I admire Penny Chenery, she was not the only woman to operate a racing stable. What about Joan Payson Whitney (Greentree) and Liz Whitney Tippitt (Llangollen)?

I don’t buy the Women’s Lib aspect. She was already “liberated”. Penny went to graduate school for business after WW2. How many women did that back then?

That makes three women running racing stables out of how many. . . my guess is probably more than 100 at that time. And the two you mentioned both have Whitney in their name suggesting they were in the same family unit.

Many women attended college before and after WW2. The ‘problem’ is that “most” were unable to apply that education as they were expected to be ‘corporate wives and mothers.’ General attitude amongst most managers, predominately male, was that single women distracted the men in the office and married women would quit after the first baby. And when men and women had the same position, men made 30 to 40+ cents more per hour than women. A male manager told me this was correct as men had to support their families. Yeah, there were no widowed or divorced women trying to support their families - but that is another discussion all together.

[mighty_mite]

[QUOTE=fooler;5158400]
And when men and women had the same position, men made 30 to 40+ cents more per hour than women. A male manager told me this was correct as men had to support their families. Yeah, there were no widowed or divorced women trying to support their families - but that is another discussion all together.[/QUOTE]

And that 's different now how? Sorry couldn’t resist.

[DLee]

Just as an aside, when they were casting for extras here in Lexington they kept pleading for more men. It took me a bit to realize it wasn’t just a lack of men turning out for extras, it was the amount of men in the movie. Women were needed pretty much only for fans.

[ParadiseFarm]

[QUOTE=mighty mite;5158214]
Many of you have probably seen the Secretariat statue at the KHP. Years ago when they were still trying to make everything happen and before Penny had her heart attack, I wanted to purchase a paver, but for my horse. I didn’t want to do it unless I cleared it with the people in charge of the statue. So I sent them an email telling them that I wanted to purchase a paver honoring my deceased horse, a former race horse. I was very surprised when Penny replied on my email herself. First she sent me her condolences on the death of my horse and then she went on to tell me that she was thrilled that I wanted to honor my horse with a paver at Secretariat’s statue. Then she said that someone actually purchased a paver for Sham and she was so happy about that because she just loved him and felt so bad that he always came in second to Big Red.

She was very gracious and I saved the email for my horse’s scrap book.[/QUOTE]

What a wonderful memory of a very classy person.

And MightyMite, I must say, you are the kind of horse owner that I pray my babies end up with.

OK, sorry to go off topic…I haven’t seen the movie yet.

[SmartAlex]

[QUOTE=mighty mite;5158214]
I was very surprised when Penny replied on my email herself. First she sent me her condolences on the death of my horse and then she went on to tell me that she was thrilled that I wanted to honor my horse with a paver at Secretariat’s statue. Then she said that someone actually purchased a paver for Sham and she was so happy about that because she just loved him and felt so bad that he always came in second to Big Red.[/QUOTE]

Class Shows

[poltroon]

[QUOTE=HappyTalk;5158229]
I don’t buy the Women’s Lib aspect. She was already “liberated”. Penny went to graduate school for business after WW2. How many women did that back then?[/QUOTE]

In 1973, banks would generally not issue a credit card to a married woman in her own name without her husband’s permission.

[WhiteCamry]

@Jumpin_Horses;5146318

I wonder how many here saw his Belmont in IRL?

I missed it.

I was 12, living in Merrick, NY, about a 30-45 minute drive from Belmont. The early June day was hot as August. With no a/c in the house :yes:, my father set up the portable tv on the back porch.

About an hour of tv time, plus a copy of Time magazine and five weeks of publicity since the KD, and I was as hyped up as a kid could be in the days of full-sugar cereals (but before high-fructose corn syrup.)

As soon as Big Red II stepped onto the track … blackout :eek:

Television brat that I was, I sat and cursed the fates (and LILCO :mad: in particular.) Radio child that he was, my father grabbed his Sony portable AM radio and tuned in CBS News (still today his fave station.) So, with no a/c, no tv and only radio to go by, it was just the way my father would have heard War Admiral, Whirlaway or Count Fleet.

That is, until we listened to Chic Anderson count 'em off.

:eek::eek::eek:

Once the race was officially won, I renewed with vigor my kvetchings at what I had been denied by an unjust Universe (and LILCO :mad: in particular.)

Later that evening we went over to a cousin’s and saw the rerun on the evening news.:eek::eek::eek:

@Jumpin_Horses;5146318

AND the horse I own now is a Secretariat G-Daughter. she actually auditioned for the part… but, alas, I dont think any of the horses in the movie were related… heck I think some of them arent even TBs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjdn7Nhq2No

yes, she also hams it up for the camera, and “runs from within” just for the fun of it

I just posted a comment on that Youtube page. She’s definitely a :).

[farmgirl88]

I saw the movie last night with my very non-horsey b/f and we both absolutely LOVED the movie…WOW! It wasn’t as technical as Seabiscuit was (keep in mind this movie was also made to stir up the imaginations and hopes of younf viewers too) but it was really, really well done. First off i’d like to say that Trolley Boy who is a OTTB stallion look-alike of Big Red is absolutely stunning and i was left in awe by the fact that he looked exactly like Secretariat. They did a great job finding horses who actually resembled him

My boyfriend was crying within 5 min into the movie. he’s not the sissy type and is a big, mechanic type guy…so seeing him cry from emotions stirred from a horse-movie was different. When we got home; he was googling information on Secretariat

I LOVED the movie and actually started to cry in the scenes of the Belmont because that perfromance is truly second to none.

[farmgirl88]

Jumpin __Horses-

SHE IS STUNNING!!! She wants to be a hunter with that canter! WOW! she certaintly looks like her “pops”!. same socks on the same legs, same red chestnut, and their conformation is eerily similar. Her chest is massive, she has great bone, the buffalo neck, short croup and compact but balanced bilt. She event gallops out like him, flat and low to the ground with tremendous grace from the shoulder. WOW!

What is her breeding, JC reg name?

[farmgirl88]

oh and Happy Days is not a “gospel” song. I loved the song and thought it was feel-good song to add inthe movie especially with all of the tragedy and sadness that surrounded the early part of the movie…very fitting.

[farmgirl88]

[QUOTE=danceronice;5146803]
Was Seabiscuit actually about the horse? No. It was about the trainer, the jockey, and the owner. Do I actually care what happened to Howard’s kid and his first marriage? Or that Red Pollard lost his vision in one eye? Not especially. Would I want to sit there for two hours watching a horse do things? No, I can go do that for free.

Movies are about the people around horses because horses don’t talk. They don’t have human motivations. They don’t have conflict because they’re HORSES. Movies are built around conflict.[/QUOTE]

well you SHOULD care about red Pollard’s lack of vision in one eye and what happened to Howard’s son before he got into horse racing. it all plays a key role in the entire story and Seabiscuit wouldn’t have been Seabiscuit without the stories, and trials and tribulations of those who owned, raced, and trained him to his wins.

You all are sittinghere complainging that you were execting to see 'pretty horse sgalloping around a track" and how the movie was all about the life of the Chenery’s. Well i hate to break it to you but Secretariat wouldnt have been Secretariat if it wasn’t for the colorful people who lit up his life and did their best to make him something. if you wanted to movie to be strictly about Secretariat than you would’ve gotten exactly what you say you didnt want…pretty horses galloping around the track and flying like pretty little butterflies…puhleeeze

[WhiteCamry]

Me, I’ll wait until it’s run ad nauseam on cable, the way Seabiscuit and Hidalgo were. I knew that many a liberty would be taken when I heard John Malkovich was cast as Lucien Laurin. He’s one of the best actors around but I would have cast Mickey Rooney (aged as he is) if he could do a Quebecois accent.

About the leaving out of Riva Ridge from the movie: the producers of Seabiscuit did the same with Kayak II. For that matter, so did Lauren Hillenbrand from her book.

Who was Kayak II, some of you ask? Charles S. Howard imported him from Argentina and ran him in, and won, the 1939 Santa Anita Handicap, the year Seabiscuit was out with a bum leg.

For the 1940 SAH, Howard entered both the now-healed Seabiscuit and Kayak II. Some time before the race he announced that he "declared for" Seabiscuit, meaning that if both his horses were in front at the sixteenth pole then jockey Buddy Haas was to ease up K2 and let Red Pollard win on Sb.

I can’t understand why Hillenbrand left this out of her book but, given the sort of movie the producers wanted to market - simplistic, popcorn & soda fare - then I could see them leaving it out of the movie.

I would rather have made Seabiscuit AND Secretariat in an HBO, multi-episode format, or maybe a Ken Burns documentary, with each episode concentrating on one chapter of the story. But first things first: I’ll go and win a multi-state lottery, then I’ll consider what movies to produce.

[WhiteCamry]

@HappyTalk;5158229

While I admire Penny Chenery, she was not the only woman to operate a racing stable. What about Joan Payson Whitney (Greentree) and Liz Whitney Tippitt (Llangollen)?

[LIST=1]

Joan Whitney Payson owned Greentree Stables. And Manhasset Stables.

And let's not forget Marion duPont Somerville Scott (Montpelier).[/LIST]

[HappyTalk]

[QUOTE=fooler;5158400]
That makes three women running racing stables out of how many. . . my guess is probably more than 100 at that time. And the two you mentioned both have Whitney in their name suggesting they were in the same family unit.

Many women attended college before and after WW2. The ‘problem’ is that “most” were unable to apply that education as they were expected to be ‘corporate wives and mothers.’ General attitude amongst most managers, predominately male, was that single women distracted the men in the office and married women would quit after the first baby. And when men and women had the same position, men made 30 to 40+ cents more per hour than women. A male manager told me this was correct as men had to support their families. Yeah, there were no widowed or divorced women trying to support their families - but that is another discussion all together.[/QUOTE]

According to my source, Penny was always on the Board of Directors for Meadow Stud. It was decided that she would take on the management of the Meadow Stud because her brother, Dr. Hollis Chenery was the chief economist of the World Bank and her sister operated a secretarial and book editing business in Tucson. Penny was the obvious choice. Just because she opted to have children did not make her “unliberated”.

[HappyTalk]

[QUOTE=WhiteCamry;5160042]
[LIST=1]

Joan Whitney Payson owned Greentree Stables. And Manhasset Stables.

And let's not forget Marion duPont Somerville Scott (Montpelier).[/LIST][/QUOTE]

Josephine Abercrombie, Pin Oak Stud

[Sandy_M]

[QUOTE=farmgirl88;5159957]
well you SHOULD care about red Pollard’s lack of vision in one eye and what happened to Howard’s son before he got into horse racing. it all plays a key role in the entire story and Seabiscuit wouldn’t have been Seabiscuit without the stories, and trials and tribulations of those who owned, raced, and trained him to his wins.

You all are sittinghere complainging that you were execting to see 'pretty horse sgalloping around a track" and how the movie was all about the life of the Chenery’s. Well i hate to break it to you but Secretariat wouldnt have been Secretariat if it wasn’t for the colorful people who lit up his life and did their best to make him something. if you wanted to movie to be strictly about Secretariat than you would’ve gotten exactly what you say you didnt want…pretty horses galloping around the track and flying like pretty little butterflies…puhleeeze[/QUOTE]

But the way those people in Secretariat’s life were portrayed was very inaccuratey - not just a little off, or a little romanticized, but a LOT off. Tweedy/Chenery was not present at Secretariat’s birth. There was no major money worry - the Chenery estate had issues, but nothing that made Secretariat’s success desperately needed. How poor can you be with a previous year’s winner of two of the triple crown races and still maintaining a racing stable, not to mention that any debt would be the estate’s, not Chenery’s. The portrayal of Sham and his connections as “evil.” The implication that Hancock tried to cheat Penney Tweedy; the performance part of the syndication was a fertility issue, not a racing issue, though obviously his value increased the more successful he was. Sorry, waaaaay too many liberties with the truth. Even the “connection” with Secretariat. Even Penny Chenery admits she “loved” Riva Ridge more and at times resented Secretariat’s success as it eclipsed Riva.

Still, I think one of the most egregious WTF moments is in Hidalgo. The horse is collapsed, so far gone that his rider is about to put him out of his misery, then the horse jumps up and they gallop off together to win the race? What? Hidalgo just fainted, perhaps, and after a little “rest” in unconsciousness was good to go?!?!?! (Putting aside the fact that the “based on a true story” was totally UNTRUE. Race never happened. Guy didn’t do half the things he promoted himself as having done.)

[monicabee]

I’d like to write a story someday about Marion duPont Somerville Scott – the little girl who built a racecourse on her front lawn when she grew up. I don’t know if she would be a heroine in today’s taste, since she also liked cockfighting.

I haven’t thought about her for a while. My horse was started for racing on the Montpelier Estate. Driving in one foggy morning and hearing galloping horses on the track was a real treat. I was there just before they tore out her “red room” with all its win photos (including Battleship, her steeplechaser who won the Grand National in 1938 and was a national celebrity on his return to the US) and trophies as part of restoring the house back to the days of James and Dolly Madison.

She was rather a private person, I gather. She would not have cared at all for some of the stories the docents were telling. She supported the idea of restoring the mansion to its original form. There is a better memorial to her anyway - the Montpelier Hunt Races in November.

I must admit to being nervous about seeing the Secretariat movie for fear of disappointment - but good for them for making it while his contemporaries are still alive to remember him!

[Jumpin_Horses]

[QUOTE=far![](girl88;5159926]
Jumpin __Horses-

SHE IS STUNNING!!! She wants to be a hunter with that canter! WOW! she certaintly looks like her “pops”!. same socks on the same legs, same red chestnut, and their conformation is eerily similar. Her chest is massive, she has great bone, the buffalo neck, short croup and compact but balanced bilt. She event gallops out like him, flat and low to the ground with tremendous grace from the shoulder. WOW!

What is her breeding, JC reg name?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=WhiteCamry;5159813]I missed it.
I just posted a comment on that Youtube page. She’s definitely a :).[/QUOTE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjdn7Nhq2No

THANKS you guys! Im rather partial to her…

her daddy was War Secretary (Secretariat). I fell madly, crazy in love with her the first day I saw her picture on the internet. after 6 years, I still love her more and more everyday. (sorry if that offends anyone, or makes me out to look like a kook )

actually even the horse I had as a kid was a Secretariat “look alike” (he wasnt related though), HIS daughter looked like him too. LOL! this was the horse I played “Secretariat” on as a kid. My sister’s morgan was “Sham” or “Riva” and I always beat her :lol:

do you see how long Ive LOVED this horse?

[IMG]http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g305/BearFooteFarm/Willy2.jpg)