Selevit Injectable

[Jealoushe]

thank you for this summary of events!

[Angela_Freda]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

The owner has noticeably not made a statement about the vets’ communications, except to say that treatments to the horse were supposed to be run by her or her vet. Apparently the treatments in question were not run by her. But were they run by her vet? It’s unclear.

Interesting.
If they agreed to or did run other treatments by her or her vet, but not this one for some reason… Yikes.

ETA
I understand some are relying on the idea that the owner signed the routine release.
Maybe she did.
Or maybe she revised it in writing or verbally.
We don’t know, none of us have seen it, have we?
So relying on what it usually says to suggest that’s what it outlined this time… Meh.
Sure, go with that, but with the caveat that we don’t actually know that to be the case. Yet.
.

@Mardi1

The owner said she had given the team explicit instructions that Chromatic was not to be given anything (meds) without her permission. Yes, she signed an agreement. IMHO team officials owed her the professional courtesy, and the respect as an owner, to notify her in advance of their plans. That’s what USEF officials agreed to.

edited to add: I don’t care if Pepe or KC are considered big name people or not on the international level. To float the idea that if either one had better name recognition which would have made them untouchable, adds insult to injury.

Exactly

[enjoytheride]

@Rel6

But with someone who has their first horse competing at this level, where their name or relationship isn’t as valued or doesn’t carry as much weight - you can see how they have a lot less power in that situation, especially in light of the signed loan agreement.

No on would want to risk McLain or Kent or Laura saying “screw this, I’m never loaning a horse for international competition again.” But with someone who doesn’t consistently send horses to that level - not a concern.

This statement, and anyone being concerned about the number of injections this horse received being called “pearl clutchers” says all we need to hear about how this level of the sport views the rest of the world. Also the further implications that the owner is lying about communications with the vet or what injections the horse received because other people on the internet say they are lying so they must be true is another issue. Now the USEF has to deal with a nobody owner making a stink on Facebook because their horse is dead.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@enjoytheride

Also the further implications that the owner is lying about communications with the vet or what injections the horse received because other people on the internet say they are lying so they must be true is another issue.

That is not what has been said on this thread.

Both the owner and USEF have made multiple public statements, and there are still many aspects of this situation that do not make a lot of sense, and other aspects that no one has spoken to yet (was there communication between vets? was the horse given a recovery treatment after round one? did the team vet get permission from owners/riders/management team of the other two horses who were given selevit after round 2?) There are many things no one is speaking about publicly right now, and multiple key people who aren’t speaking publicly. The owner had made statements about the US Team vet… and he has essentially been accused of malpractice and killing a horse. But he has not yet had a chance to give his side of the situation… maybe everyone should just pause and let it play out.

There are multiple things going on with this… off label use of selevit, using intense multi medication regimens to “help” horses in an FEI competition situation that involves jumping multiple rounds over multiple days, and the whole aspect of owners signing an agreement to loan their horse to the Team and give over all care and custody decisions in the process.

All I’m saying is MAYBE everyone should slow down slightly, and consider that there may be things about the situation the public is unaware of. It sure seems like the off label selevit was a tragic error - it certainly has killed other horses in high profile incidents. It sure seems like the USEF communications response certainly has been less than optimal - that shouldn’t surprise anyone. And it’s certain that the owner and groom loved the horse and are grieving. But beyond that… a lot is unknown. It’s a serious situation involving the death of a 7 figure horse on the world stage, and someone’s professional career as a practicing team veterinarian at the highest level. Maybe it’s wise to just consider there are aspects of the situation that are unknown just yet, and not rush to judgement. Let the legal process play out (if the owner pursues legal action).

[Annie10]

@Mardi1

@Annie10

They don’t have to cal the owner, the regular vet , the man in the moon or anyone else. And what Pepe does or did isn’t relevant to any of it .
The “team ” and their vets had authority via a signed release from the owner of that horse to do whatever they wanted to with that horse whenever they wanted to do it.

The owner said she had given the team explicit instructions that Chromatic was not to be given anything (meds) without her permission. Yes, she signed an agreement. IMHO team officials owed her the professional courtesy, and the respect as an owner, to notify her in advance of their plans. That’s what USEF officials agreed to.

edited to add: I don’t care if Pepe or KC are considered big name people or not on the international level. To float the idea that if either one had better name recognition which would have made them untouchable, adds insult to injury.

I’m not saying I don’t agree with you. I’m saying she signed a release that said they can do whatever they want without contacting jack squat. And that’s exactly what they did.
The release doesn’t say “but as a courtesy we will first consult with you, your groom and your vet before we do anything with this horse”

This is an abject lesson to not only be very careful
About everything that you (g) sign and ensure that you read it carefully and fully understand what it says.

[OutsidersOpinion]

I never said there was one, my point as stated by others above, was that the Groom did get a phone call by someone to go to the Team Vet for treatment. He clearly had a bad feeling as he called the owner and was worried (her words not mine) and I’m wondering if other grooms of more high profile riders who compete at that level more frequently get those phone calls too.

I highly suspect they don’t, and its actually reversed, the groom/manager/personal vet is telling them Team vet what to give.

[Annie10]

@Midge

The owner said she did not know he was getting this. There has been no statement by USEF saying their vet had owner permission to give the injections.

She signed the release giving them permission

[Midge]

That was in response to someone who said, “maybe the owner said to go ahead.”

[Annie10]

Ah I see.
I just can’t even imagine all the blood sweat and tears and of course $$ that went into producing a horse to that level for it end this way.
I have a homebred , a few actually, and while they are nice horses and I have a ton of all of the above invested, none of mine will ever go to the World Cup. But I know how I would feel to lose one of them so tragically.

[enjoytheride]

But is what is being implied on Facebook, and continues to be implied with a recent video, (and thus being discussed here) by someone who was not there in person and stated that their information came from friends of theirs who overheard parts of phone conversations in the barn aisles. I agree that many things are unknown and likely to remain unknown, but I do not see a reason to believe to someone who go their information through a game of telephone over the owner at this point. In addition, the USEF’s original and follow up statements do not give me reason to believe them either. I certainly don’t believe the vet went “rogue” either, nor do I know where that came from. I would assume a team vet discusses what will be done with a horse with SOMEONE.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I can appreciate where you are coming from.

I definitely don’t think USEF is being forthright.

I think we agree more than disagree about most of this situation.

As I said earlier, the only thing I know for sure is that people are sincerely grieving the very sad loss of this horse, and that IV selevit seems like a seriously risky choice. Very sad

[Annie10]

usef is absolutely not being forthright. Why should they be? I imagine they are getting ready for the lawsuit for either or both the horse owner and the insurance company. there are a lot of moving parts here and I expect this will get pretty ugly and remain so for some time. Also, I wonder how it may affect the Team getting horses in the future now that this is coming out.

[horsegurl]

Blockquote

@MHM

Wasn’t the owner there for the World Cup final?

If so, any idea that she was unreachable by phone because of the time difference or anything like that would go right out the window.

@MHM I am rejoining this thread a bit late, so if you already got info, please forgive the repeat. Owner was right there. The horse was under “conservancy” of USEF/USET, and they had all the control to make any and all choices for the horse–per written contract for a “team” event. So they could, and did, administer whatever to him as they felt necessary. No consultation with the owner was required. Yes, she was there.

[horsegurl]

@Amberley @Virginia_Horse_Mom @enjoytheride–
Dang, I’d like to see that who wrote that now removed post. IF KMSFH, I wouldn’t believe a thing she says. Also, this same type of wording is used by an anonymous poster on Horseshowdiva. Chromatic jumped big classes in a consistent jumper schedule the past year or more. He qualified for WC at Vegas in the fall of 2023, he was second at Thermal in–I believe March-- a 1.45m Welcome Stake. Not trying to prove anything to you all…just saying he’s been competing regularly, and I’m not sure what this poster has against the program, KC, Jill, Rudy??? Or maybe just jealousy. She/he…but I suspect SHE, is completely unhinged!!! IMHO.

[horsegurl]

@enjoytheride

that their information came from friends of theirs who overheard parts of phone conversations in the barn aisles. I agree that many things are unknown and likely to remain unknown, but I do not see a reason to believe to someone who go their information through a game of telephone over the owner at this point.

…yeah…more BS. There isn’t a gathering of “friends” on the aisles, or in stabling, at a tightly secure FEI event!!! Unless this person’s “friend” was associated with the other team members as an owner or groom or rider–very few have security clearance to be in FEI stabling. Such BS from one or two people spreading it.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I just think it’s a really sad situation, with a lot of moving parts and people involved, and a lot of unclear or unknown information. Probably wise not to rush to judgement.

Maybe just let the legal process play out. And… if nothing else… hopefully everyone who has followed this thread has learned something about the dangers of injecting meds containing selenium, and will be extra cautious about that after learning of this situation, and hopefully that saves other horses from a sad fate at some future point in time.

[SonnysMom]

I could see maybe she questioned the wording and was verbally told they need to have that wording for emergency care or in case they can’t contact her for permission. But since you and your vet want to be involved on routine non-urgent care of course we will abide by your wishes. Pat on the back little inexperienced little lady. (Subtext be a good little non-involved owner and shut up). IF there was a conversation like that in hindsight maybe she should not have been as trusting and required an amendment to the loan agreement. But hindsight is sometimes 20/20.
I have not read or heard anything to suggest a conversation like this took place but it is easy to see how she may have been told this is boilerplate loan agreement and everyone signs it. It is just in case of an emergency to provide the best care for your horse.

[horsegurl]

Yes, I agree with you. Us–the public–will never know the whole truth anyway. And I think there will be major adjustments to how USEF, and the horse owners, will handle things at international events moving forward. I do believe there is one person telling tall tales, so far off base, should not be taken with a fraction of truth!!

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I understand your position on that one person’s comments.

Here is a comment from an entirely different person regarding the horse’s soundness. I watched videos of him… both in late 2023, and of his first round at Riyadh. Her comment about the horse traveling differently across the ground resonated with me. Obviously anaphylaxis from selevit still seems like the most likely cause of death… but I think there must have been a lot more to the veterinary management of this horse than either the owner or USEF have covered in their public statements. And that makes me think the rush to judgement concerning the team vet who was onsite with the horse MIGHT be unfair. I don’t know… but it seems like it’s a more complicated situation than outsiders probably can appreciate.

If one reviews the WC Finals videos and videos of prior competitions, it is clear the horse was traveling different across the ground…not lame in any one limb, but maybe stiff/sore in back and/or hind end. Compare the videos and decide for yourself. This maybe the cause of the treatments he received. A jumper needs superior fitness and energy to jump that high/wide for several days in a row sometimes doing multiple rounds in a day. Many top horses have gotten extremely tired and/or sore at the WC Finals in the past. Perhaps the approach to this venue ought to be re-thought??? Certainly a fitness program needs to be instituted for jumpers going to the current multi - day format of WC Finals …not unlike preparing for XC in eventing. Maybe this horse would receive less than a cornucopia of meds if he was coping better with the halfway around the world travel and then jumping three big rounds. Just a thought. This said, anaphylaxis is most likely cause of death given timing of death after administration, and the product’s known risk.

[Mardi1]

@horsegurl

So they could, and did, administer whatever to him as they felt necessary. No consultation with the owner was required.

No consultation with the owner was required, however, it was requested, and as far as we know, USEF officials agreed. I understand that still doesn’t make it definite that they would notify the owner.