Ah, see this is what I’ve been missing. I thought homeopathy was defined by it’s lack of “stuff” and dilution down to nothing. What makes something homeopathic vs herbal, then? Just how the manufacturer defines it…?
This is mentioned in that pdf I linked above, too, and it made me laugh 
There is disagreement amongst homeopathic practitioners on this subject.
PLOS had a piece on it.
Man, that just makes IV use of stuff like this even scarier. People are going into it thinking it’s saline with ~~vibrations~~ and they’re injecting belladonna. Tiny amounts, but still. Eeek.
That is terrifying!
Nobody is arguing that horses should not be getting legend or adequan. The argument is that this concoction has no scientific merit at this point. Maybe it works but there have been no scientific, peer reviewed studies that show that injections of legend and/or adequan at this frequency is actually beneficial. Not to mention the other substances in the shot that have even less testing/ research. Vets should emulate doctors and “First do no harm”. I don’t have horses anywhere that valuable but I would be up in arms if they were getting some voodoo IV concoction with no proven merit. If it actually does help the horse then create studies and test the hypothesis before administering it because of some anecdotal (I suppose) evidence.
Atropine is a belladonna derivative used with some frequency in allopathic medicine.
A lot of these ingredients have use in some way in allopathic medicine, right?
But you know what you’re getting when you pull the atropine off the shelf and there’s more oversight that what’s on the label is actually what’s in the bottle 
I think a lot of people think about homeopathy the way I (and @Amberley) did–that it’s saline and woo. I’m surprised that there’s so much overlap between homeopathy and herbal medicine, and don’t think the homeopathy guys make that clear at all. Just the ingredient list on the traumeel is a great example–the dilution factor is not at all transparent unless one gets curious & digs into what it means.
Would traumeel be an approved by the FEI med if it were labeled herbal rather than homeopathic? Or if the label gave actual amounts instead of dilution factor?
Adenosine? Adenosine in human medicine is a cardiac med given for arrythmia. Fun fact: it stops your heart momentarily when given IV push.
I do not believe that matters. What matters is what tests positive. Either traumeel leaves no discernable amounts after x hours (unlikely) or what it does leave is not on the list of prohibited substances.
USEF is different in that it has a helpful list of what is allowed and prohibited and goes out of its way to educate members. FEI has a very short list with w/d timeframes for some more commonly used drugs, but make no guarantee that your horse will be clean under that timeline. It also takes some sleuthing to find that list. They also have an extensive list of hell no not ever drugs and “acceptable” drugs where no timeline is given (my personal fave is Diclofenac cream, leaving me to wonder how long before an event should I stop using it on ME to avoid a positive test on my horse). Then there are substances that just aren’t on the list. I stopped buying Sore No. More years ago because… usef list. I never even thought to check and see whether those ingredients are on the FEI list, even though I know the lists are not the same.
Reminds me of The Memory of Water.
Stands to reason that a production error with the people making the IV spiritual vibration water could be a serious issue. Selevit is at least an actual drug made by an actual drug manufacturer. Presumably the risk of anaphylaxis is known with that because it’s being monitored because it’s a real drug. FDA isn’t a huge fan of traumeel injecable: Medinatura Inc - 596269 - 06/11/2020 | FDA
Either allopathic or homeopathic, it depends on how robust the regulatory oversight is, doesn’t it?
Case in point would be the various compunding errors that make the news, or the shortages of various drugs due to recalls after reported adverse effects traceable back to the manufacturer.
If the regulatory authorities exercise due diligence, there should be no difference between allopathic or homeopathic injectables in terms of what’s in the bottle.
I’m not endorsing the stuff, I just think the Selevit was far more likely to be the issue that caused the reaction in this case.
I said nothing at all about adenosine.
Not sure where that got introduced.
Fun fact: adenosine is the backbone of ATP, which is required for energy production.
And I wrote atropine.
No idea where the adenosine came from.
Another caveat wrt atropine–horses are quite sensitive to its effects, one of which is decreasing gut motility.
I always warn clients who are using atropine eye ointment to stop immediately if the horse appears to have any GI discomfort.
They were responding to post 30. Confusing, since the thread is QUITE long.
Ahh–thank you.
I was looking in all the posts with lists of homeopathic ingredients ad wondering where it was.
It actually contributes to the idea that the Selevit was the primary culprit in this shitshow.
Am I confused?
See above.
I hadn’t realized you were going so far back in the thread, since you didn’t reference the post in question.
My apologies.
Ahh OK.
Oh, and for the record, the only route of parenteral administration I’ve seen listed for AMP is intramuscular, with a strident warning that IV administration can be fatal.
So you’re definitely right there.
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