Selevit Injectable

[DMK]

@Simkie

Would traumeel be an approved by the FEI med if it were labeled herbal rather than homeopathic? Or if the label gave actual amounts instead of dilution factor?

I do not believe that matters. What matters is what tests positive. Either traumeel leaves no discernable amounts after x hours (unlikely) or what it does leave is not on the list of prohibited substances.

USEF is different in that it has a helpful list of what is allowed and prohibited and goes out of its way to educate members. FEI has a very short list with w/d timeframes for some more commonly used drugs, but make no guarantee that your horse will be clean under that timeline. It also takes some sleuthing to find that list. They also have an extensive list of hell no not ever drugs and “acceptable” drugs where no timeline is given (my personal fave is Diclofenac cream, leaving me to wonder how long before an event should I stop using it on ME to avoid a positive test on my horse). Then there are substances that just aren’t on the list. I stopped buying Sore No. More years ago because… usef list. I never even thought to check and see whether those ingredients are on the FEI list, even though I know the lists are not the same.

[Aussie_2020]

Reminds me of The Memory of Water.

[Railbird]

Stands to reason that a production error with the people making the IV spiritual vibration water could be a serious issue. Selevit is at least an actual drug made by an actual drug manufacturer. Presumably the risk of anaphylaxis is known with that because it’s being monitored because it’s a real drug. FDA isn’t a huge fan of traumeel injecable: Medinatura Inc - 596269 - 06/11/2020 | FDA

[Ghazzu]

@Simkie

A lot of these ingredients have use in some way in allopathic medicine, right?

But you know what you’re getting when you pull the atropine off the shelf and there’s more oversight that what’s on the label is actually what’s in the bottle

Either allopathic or homeopathic, it depends on how robust the regulatory oversight is, doesn’t it?
Case in point would be the various compunding errors that make the news, or the shortages of various drugs due to recalls after reported adverse effects traceable back to the manufacturer.
If the regulatory authorities exercise due diligence, there should be no difference between allopathic or homeopathic injectables in terms of what’s in the bottle.
I’m not endorsing the stuff, I just think the Selevit was far more likely to be the issue that caused the reaction in this case.

[Ghazzu]

@TBROCKS

Adenosine? Adenosine in human medicine is a cardiac med given for arrythmia. Fun fact: it stops your heart momentarily when given IV push.

I said nothing at all about adenosine.
Not sure where that got introduced.
Fun fact: adenosine is the backbone of ATP, which is required for energy production.

[Ghazzu]

@Amberley

She meant Atropine. It’s a belladonna derivative and it’s used for various things. It dilates the eyes. It speeds up the heart etc.

And I wrote atropine.
No idea where the adenosine came from.
Another caveat wrt atropine–horses are quite sensitive to its effects, one of which is decreasing gut motility.
I always warn clients who are using atropine eye ointment to stop immediately if the horse appears to have any GI discomfort.

[fivestrideline]

@Ghazzu

No idea where the adenosine came from.

They were responding to post 30. Confusing, since the thread is QUITE long.

@Ghazzu

Trade name Selevit, so it isn’t the E-Se that I am familiar with, but more of a combination medication. The ingredients are, from what I can find:

Selevit 100ml Per ml: Selenium 0.15 mg, Tocopherol (vit E) 70 mg, Cyanocobalamin (vit B 12) 0.1 mg, Adenosine 5 monophosphoric acid (AMP) 5 mg
and the listed dose is 10-20 ml for horses.
.
I don’t believe it is FDA approved in the US. The manufacturer, Syva, appears to be in Spain.

[Ghazzu]

@fivestrideline

They were responding to post 30. Confusing, since the thread is QUITE long.

Ahh–thank you.
I was looking in all the posts with lists of homeopathic ingredients ad wondering where it was.
It actually contributes to the idea that the Selevit was the primary culprit in this shitshow.

[TBROCKS]

@Ghazzu

Selevit 100ml Per ml: Selenium 0.15 mg, Tocopherol (vit E) 70 mg, Cyanocobalamin (vit B 12) 0.1 mg, Adenosine 5 monophosphoric acid (AMP) 5 mg
and the listed dose is 10-20 ml for horses.

Am I confused?

[Ghazzu]

See above.
I hadn’t realized you were going so far back in the thread, since you didn’t reference the post in question.
My apologies.

[TBROCKS]

Ahh OK.

[Ghazzu]

Oh, and for the record, the only route of parenteral administration I’ve seen listed for AMP is intramuscular, with a strident warning that IV administration can be fatal.
So you’re definitely right there.

[EmilyM]

Not so fun fact: people use Adenosine on their horses to make them quiet at horse shows. Wish USEF would get on that.

I had someone (not a vet) recommend it for a horse of mine that gets amped up. I was like, yeah, not interested in messing with his heart. Yeesh

[2bayboys]

@EmilyM

Not so fun fact: people use Adenosine on their horses to make them quiet at horse shows. Wish USEF would get on that.

I had someone (not a vet) recommend it for a horse of mine that gets amped up. I was like, yeah, not interested in messing with his heart. Yeesh

Ohforgodssake. I’m assuming it would have to be obtained from a vet?

[EmilyM]

I imagine so

[Ghazzu]

You’d think so, but it took me under a minute to find it for order on the web.

[EmilyM]

Is it the equivalent of taking a beta blocker which I know people do for anxiety. Or does it work another way?

[Ghazzu]

@EmilyM

does it work another way?

It is a fairly potent vasodilator, so I’d guess the “calming” effect woould be via hypotension.

[skydy]

@Ghazzu

@EmilyM

does it work another way?

It is a fairly potent vasodilator, so I’d guess the “calming” effect woould be via hypotension.

[fourfillies]

In humans the effect is seconds. We give it fast push iv for select fast heart rhythms to momentarily reset the heart. By stopping conduction. No words for the sport we have become.