I am not angry that there is SafeSport, just that there is not an equivalent training that is required to protect horses. I am not saying that people don’t get abused, and I 100 percent support protecting kids. However, more horses are abused than people. We need to do way better at protecting them.
7 Likes
Wouldn’t obesity be is own sedation? I mean, caring all that extra weight is hard. Ask me how I know!
8 Likes
Bless your heart, NotOk. I know hunters. But carry on with your complaining while holding your hands over your ears. Seems to be the way these days. The rest of us will continue to get our hands dirty, working to effectuate change, and not going on social media of other disciplines about which we know little, to excoriate what we believe is their behavior.
22 Likes
The rest of you have not effected change. For USEF I get silence and from here with a couple of exceptions just a ton of excuses. I showed HJ for 20 years. I have close relatives still competing. If anything, the abuse has only gotten worse with the influx of way more $$$ and a smaller percentage of participants who are real horse-people. You can insult me with your “bless your heart” and whatever else, I will keep on.
7 Likes
I suspected this was about money. I think we can agree that it’s an increasingly pay-to-play sport and money usually wins. I do not agree that we all, as hunters, are somehow guilty of the sins of only some, and berating all of us is counterproductive.
At the very least, respect that some of us are out there playing by the rules, trying to enjoy our sport, and encouraging others to do the same.
19 Likes
How much money do you have to spend on SafeSport?
1 Like
Fair enough. Not all are guilty. And I will add that I see some incredible riding and some incredibly managed horses at HJ shows. The best have gotten way better and the worse way worse. However, the overall culture in the HJ world is way too permissive of abuse.
Also, I am 100 percent for these changes I propose for dressage too and any other USEF discipline. Dressage judges rarely whistle out lame horses and some players are abusing drugs.
3 Likes
I don’t claim to know the start up and annual operating cost of instituting SafeSport for USEF, but you can bet the cost is past on to the membership through dues etc.
Ahhhhh, I love that we are finding common ground. It’s the start to a great day. I’ll hug my horses and think of you, and we will keep trying to do our best and push for rules that encourage it.
1 Like
One of the zones I showed in as a junior did have a limit on the number of over fences classes that could be done by the same horse…I can’t recall if it was per day or per show. But I do remember that if you were a one horse person trying to do a hunter division and some medals and maybe an age group equitation, the rules precluded you from doing all of those classes—I remember having to pick and choose which eq I was going to try to qualify for because I couldn’t do them all. And I didn’t do any warmup classes, and my horse didn’t do any pro divisions. That rule went away at some point, but the zones or USEF could bring that back.
13 Likes
Yes!! I’d love to see this!! I think that USEF should substantiate their concerns by implementing these rules. The only ones gaining from this practice are the shows.
I think parent and (new) owner education is so important here. There is a culture of implicit trust in trainers, and that is resulting in parents especially just blindly paying bills - to shows, to trainers, to vets. If parents and owners were educated about longevity - that a horse only has so many jumps in it and should not do 20 classes so the pro, the kid, the neighbor, everyone can jump around, maybe we’d see less of this shameful behavior.
9 Likes
How do you figure the worse have gotten worse? I think the sport has cleaned up a ton since the days of massive use of dex and other designer drugs. But you wouldn’t know anything about this because you admittedly do not show h/j and focus on dressage so are not there to witness it. Only to complain vociferously online and make suggestions that if you had actually shown h/j at any point in the last 20 years, would know are complete non-starters for logistical reasons if nothing else. But carry on.
20 Likes
The shows gain but also the trainers gain. The more classes, the more money they make.
I do think there should be a limit to the number of classes.
6 Likes
Have you seen the state of Equine specific veterinary practices lately? The number of graduating veterinary students who go into equine medicine is alarmingly low. It sounds like what you would like to propose is a vet at every ring to do a “soundness check” of every horse before it goes in for every class. That would be impossible with the number of rings at some shows. Even if they shared a warmup ring between two show rings, you could still be looking at anywhere from 5 - 10+ vets employed by the horse show. And they would have to be certified vets, not vet techs, because heaven forbid a vet tech tells someone their horse is lame and the owner goes after them because they don’t have the same degree that a licensed DVM has.
Sure there could be improvements in any aspect of this sport, but the way that you are going about your crusade is ineffective in the extreme. If you want better feedback, perhaps you could draft a well written document and then present that to whomever you want to discuss the issue with. That could be anyone from a USEF official to the people of this message board. But coming in with your first post (or an alter) being a poorly structured rant about and attack on the state of the sport that most of us participate in is not a great way to get a positive discussion started.
21 Likes
I mean I have been to many many shows in the last 20 years and seen the large influx of people who should t be off a lunge line showing over fences. 3’ used to be the low. Lol. I am not saying there weren’t bad riders before, but there has been an explosion as of late. There are also more top horses, more top programs and more top riders. It is not a secret that there are a lot of people in the low arenas that would not survive if the starting point was 3’.
3 Likes
Just on the subject of drug testing…I have been to 3 dressage shows this year. I was tested at one and my trainer at 2! I think if anything they are doing MUCH more testing in the dressage world.
Of course our tests were clean. The vet said they rarely get violations at dressage shows. I just found it odd because I’ve never been tested before last year, when I also got tested once. Are people not getting tested at HJ shows? Or do we just have terrible luck? (Though it isn’t really a problem, I welcome testing to keep our sport clean.)
4 Likes
Yes, they are getting tested at H/J shows. Yes, the vast majority of tests are clean at H/J shows. Yes, a few get caught every single year…at H/J, D, breed and discipline shows. Could it all be ‘better’? Absolutely.
Is it better than it was 30 years ago, when I started in this H/J world? I can say yes, yes it is. There are so many ways to keep our athletes healthy and sound now versus 1993! I saw horses who were ‘off’ back then. Lunged to death, hacked after lunged, jumped far too many fences/classes. Is it better today? I say yes. You know, I’d rather a spicy hunter got a tube of Perfect Prep rather than a 45 minute lunge and a 30 minute hack every single day. Does that make me a bad horseperson? I think not. I’m sure our superstart OP will disagree with me.
Your solutions are impractical, as many have pointed out. USEF/USHJA could do better in policing for lameness and over use. Every single year, they hold Town Halls, and anyone can propose rule changes. Have you proposed actual rule changes or have you just hopped on your high horse and complained?
I’ve taken a stroll through the dressage world and the eventing world…it ain’t much better, NotOk. There are many skeletons and drugs and bad practices and sore horses showing there too. Not sure you should continue to cast stones, what with living in your glass house there on dressage lane.
25 Likes
this - there is a person in my area that continually complains that EC doesn’t allow bitless for dressage, but when you say “put in a rule change, it may not go thru this time but it will start discussion and you have to start somewhere” - crickets
11 Likes
Excuse me while I recover from my fit of laughter at the impracticality of this concept. We send veterinarians (not trainers, not judges, not riders: DOCTORS) to school for 8 years. Then many of them go on to do 1-2 years of internship and 3 years of residency training, and even then they usually need additional diagnostic testing, in the form of nerve blocks, radiographs, scintigraphy, ultrasound, etc. etc. to accurately diagnose lameness. And yet you think PARENTS, many of whom can’t tell a halter from a bridle, should be required to pass a class on lameness diagnosis?
How do I get whatever drugs you’re on? Because it must be nice to live in your reality.
41 Likes
Random question — How often are COTHers being tested? I find it a little concerning if testers are being sent to dressage shows where everyone is negative, but not the HJ shows.
One of the times I was tested was at Lamplight, same weekend as a HJ show that wasn’t being tested. That was weird. The dressage barn sharps containers are empty, the HJ ones are full. Why do that? I don’t mind being tested at ALL, but I do mind them testing the less likely culprits when it is just as easy and same expense to test the higher offenders.
5 Likes
