Selling a young horse to the amateur market - how much under saddle education do people expect?

[Buckshot1]

I have a 3 year old gelding that I am training with a view to sell once he is started under saddle at 4. He’s cute, registered with his breed association, has good conformation, a quiet temperament, and a good brain - trainable but not so smart as to be tricky.

I can imagine him being a great pony club or pleasure horse when he’s grown up. He doesn’t have any qualities that scream ‘will be excellent at XYZ’ - he’s just a basic, fun little horse (currently 14.1hh & still growing). He’ll be priced in the low 4 figures, and markerted to the amateur crowd. The plan is get a month’s riding on him, including going out somewhere to see how he handles under saddle excursions (he’s been perfect so far on the ground in new places).

My question is this - how much under saddle experience and/or trainning would you expect for such a horse? My approach to raising babies is ‘better slow than sorry’ but since this horse is to be sold, I want to do everything that I can to ensure he has a good future and that includes making him as well trained as possible.

Would you expect any or all of the following to be ‘checked off’ before you bought such a horse? Should I wait to advertise him until he’s done some of these things?

• shown in hand
• shown under saddle (breed or hack classes)
• first dressage test (w/t)
• jumped under saddle
• taken on a off property trail ride
• ridden by other people
• participated in lessons and/or clinics under saddle

I would welcome everyone’s thoughts. He’s a nice little guy and I want to make him attractive to as wide a market as possible to up the odds of finding him a good home (and since he’s on the short side I feel that will already cut a lot of people out).

[joiedevie99]

For a jack of all trades, master of none sort of prospect at 4 y/o- I wouldn’t expect any of those things. I’d expect him to walk, trot and canter, steer, pick up both leads, and trot over a cross rail or 6" log. Temperament is most important - he needs to be non-spooky and honest. He needs to go on a basic 30 minute walk/trail ride around your property by himself, following another horse, and being followed by another horse.

[Buckshot1]

@joiedevie99 that’s encouraging to hear!

[Dutchmare433]

I’d want him WTC, steering, able to successfully trail ride/hack out and maybe pop over a log or something. I would want someone else to ride him to make sure he does ok with that before listing him for sale. (This would be more for my peace of mind in regards to potential buyers coming to sit on him than something that potential buyers will care that much about.)

[Buckshot1]

Good point @Dutchmare433 . I am sure I will be able to enlist a friend to be test jockey.

[Palm_Beach]

To honestly advertise a horse as amateur friendly, you’d need to put the horse in different scenarios to show he can handle things. Otherwise he’s just a nice green horse who’s never been off the property. A month’s riding will not get you there. An amateur horse handles stress and challenges without doing anything that will endanger an amateur rider. There is no reason you can’t haul around a young horse even if it’s not broke. I don’t think your horse is prepared to be labeled amateur friendly. You don’t know how he will behave at a show or even off the farm.

[MsM]

It also depends upon his breed. Is he a prospect for breed shows? People involved in different breeds can have very different expectations.
I think if he is good minded, he could easily be sold as amateur friendly for someone in a program with a trainer.
Maybe hope he stays small and can be shown as a pony! :lol:

[xQHDQ]

Can you advertise him as “amateur friendly but not for a beginner because green” or something along those lines? Some people mistake “amateur” with “beginner”.

[Mango20]

Personally, I wouldn’t care if he was shown in hand. If I was looking for a young horse for my moving up Pony Clubber, I’d want it to have left the property - maybe a schooling h/j or dressage show, a trail ride, and/or cross country schooling. I’d want to see him jumping at least a crossrail so I could judge his attitude and form, as much as you can for a greenie.

I actually did buy this horse for my Pony Clubber. I bought it with the intent that I would ride her for a year before the kid moved up. I think she had attended one schooling dressage show and one clinic, and we tried her out at a facility she was unfamiliar with. She was incredibly green at jumping and was not quite sure what to do with herself, but was very willing to give it a shot. She was kind to my 11 year old. I bought her because I liked her attitude. I’ve had her 5 years now and my instincts were right - she has become a fancy mover, and incredible jumper, and the kid is doing Training level eventing and upper level Pony Club ratings with her.

[hoopoe]

• shown in hand ~ NO
• shown under saddle (breed or hack classes) ~ perhaps
• first dressage test (w/t) ~ perhaps
• jumped under saddle ~ no
• taken on a off property trail ride ~ no
• ridden by other people ~ once for your information
• participated in lessons and/or clinics under saddle ~ no

I have many years experience and have started my own green horses twice.

I wouldn’t expect all of the above.

WTC of course, clip bathe load and haul, would be nice bonus. Going to an event venue would be a huge bonus

[AltersAreUs]

As someone who used to sell green horses to the 4-H and Pony Club crowd, I normally put the following on my prospects:

• WTC, both leads as least somewhat organized.
• Hack around the property, alone and with others
• Hack off the property with others
• One or two “schooling” shows to see how he handled the fuss. This could be anything from the local 4-H fun show (egg & spoon, here we come) to a training level dressage test.

Other than that, I always made sure my jack of all trades horses had solid manners - great on the ground, good loading, could stand a the mounting block like a statue, no quirks about their feet or bridling. Just a generally an easy horse to have fun with.

[findeight]

I, personally, would not use the terms “Ammy friendly” and ’ Green" in an ad aimed at the general public. IME long experience, it’s an oxymoron and will attract more morons then suitable buyers.

Educated buyers will expect Green to be going well on the flat and easy going in temperament. Uneducated buyers want it ready for the Olympics ridden by their 6 year old next year.

I would say " well started in basics, easy going, ready for advanced rider and training for your needs". You don’t want to say anything that will give the impression he’s suitable for an inexperienced rider, just stick to what he needs and what’s safe. You’ll get them anyway but not because the ad hints he’s something he’s not.

[PNWjumper]

If you take it slow, everyone you come across will tell you that they wanted you to do all the things above.

If you do all of the things above, people will say that you’ve over done it.

Murphy’s Law of horse sale! :lol:

But in all seriousness, I’ve sold a 4yo each year for several years now. IMO, it’s one of the hardest ages to sell. People have no vision, so they need you to have already done whatever they’re considering the horse for. But that obviously has limits with a horse that age.

I wouldn’t bother with showing in hand. That might be my h/j show background talking, so take it for what it’s worth, but once you have a horse under saddle I don’t think the showing in hand is important to have already done. But showing under saddle (doesn’t matter if it’s breed/hack/dressage or other) is a good way to prove to people that the horse can manage themselves away from home. Jumping under saddle is nice, but not necessary as a late 3/early 4yo (unless you’re selling it specifically as a jumping horse). I personally don’t care if the horse has been on off-property trail rides. A short hack around the neighborhood is fine to me. Being ridden by other people…well that happens in the trial process anyway, so again not all that necessary. And I would assume that any horse has participated in lessons or clinics in some way or another.

If the horse is calm and has a nice temperament, showcasing those traits is what you’re looking to do. So video tape anything and everything the horse does where he handles himself well. I don’t think the “how” matters as much as the illustration that the horse has a great brain and temperament.

[Scribbler]

I’d add its superfluous to say ammie out loud in an ad like this.

I tend to see “ammie friendly” in sales ads for performance horses, specifically jumper and dressage, where the horse has talent and flash. And there ammie friendly does not mean beginner and no one will assume that. It means that a competent amateur rider already riding that level can get on the horse and do 4th level dressage or jump 3 foot 6 and not die. Horse has talent but is not a scary pro ride that explodes if not kept between hand and leg, or something like that.

It’s only really meaningful on horses that have enough performance ability that an ammie might worry they are “too much horse” for them.

For the horse described by OP, the only final users will be ammies. Even if a pro buys him for a project or lesson horse, he’s going to be ridden by ammies.

The real question with the trainer is: is he beginner safe or child safe?

I think with limited time, do things that will generalize, by which I mean getting him off the property or at least out of the arena multiple times is more important than actually going in a show class he is unlikely to win. Maybe take him to a show to hang out and see how he reacts.

Maybe put some competent kids on him to see if he still responds to shorter legs and lighter weight.

Some horses honestly are just good calm troopers from day one. But even they might have a few skitters at the start.

[TequilaMockingbird]

WTC, steering, a good whoa, good ground manners and a good brain (good for a 3 year old) are all I would expect from a 3 year old that would be good for an amateur mount. It would be a definite plus if the horse has had experience off the property on a few short trail rides.

I wouldn’t consider most 3 year olds to be beginner safe. They certainly exist but as a seller I wouldn’t feel comfortable selling a 3 year old to a beginner unless they were under the constant supervision of a trainer and receiving regular professional assistance.

A beginner can teach even a good egg some really bad habits and they’re not equipped to fix behavior that can become dangerous.

[SnicklefritzG]

Showing in-hand is more useful when trying to sell a yearling or two year old who is too young to have been started under saddle. Neither of my babies are for sale, but if they were I could cite their in-hand experience on the ad. It basically shows that they know how to go off the property, deal with a busy show environment, behave both for pros and ammys alike, and get good scores.

If a horse is 3 or 4 and under saddle, then you wouldn’t need that background at the price level you are targeting.

[GraceLikeRain]

In that price range a short video showing the horse loading up, unloading at a new place, and hacking around safely would sell me very quickly. The primary video needs to be a high quality WTC of course but I think that second video speaks volumes about an ammie safe mind.

At 4 I don’t care if they are super wiggly or green but a sane mind in a new place and the ability to be safely transported is a critical piece. As an AA if I run into trouble I need to know I can load up a horse and transport it to a trainer with more resources to work through the problem.

[OneTwoMany]

@-Buckshot-

I have a 3 year old gelding that I am training with a view to sell once he is started under saddle at 4. He’s cute, registered with his breed association, has good conformation, a quiet temperament, and a good brain - trainable but not so smart as to be tricky.

I can imagine him being a great pony club or pleasure horse when he’s grown up. He doesn’t have any qualities that scream ‘will be excellent at XYZ’ - he’s just a basic, fun little horse (currently 14.1hh & still growing). He’ll be priced in the low 4 figures, and markerted to the amateur crowd. The plan is get a month’s riding on him, including going out somewhere to see how he handles under saddle excursions (he’s been perfect so far on the ground in new places).

My question is this - how much under saddle experience and/or trainning would you expect for such a horse? My approach to raising babies is ‘better slow than sorry’ but since this horse is to be sold, I want to do everything that I can to ensure he has a good future and that includes making him as well trained as possible.

Would you expect any or all of the following to be ‘checked off’ before you bought such a horse? Should I wait to advertise him until he’s done some of these things?

• shown in hand
• shown under saddle (breed or hack classes)
• first dressage test (w/t)
• jumped under saddle
• taken on a off property trail ride
• ridden by other people
• participated in lessons and/or clinics under saddle

I would welcome everyone’s thoughts. He’s a nice little guy and I want to make him attractive to as wide a market as possible to up the odds of finding him a good home (and since he’s on the short side I feel that will already cut a lot of people out).

In H/J land a horse with only one month of training is not suitable for an amateur. Unless that amateur is very experienced. The definition of an amateur is someone 18 or older who is not a pro. That encompasses a broad swath of people. If you only plan to put 30 days of u/s work on this horse you’d be better off marketing it as suitable for a pro or experienced ammie who is looking for a project horse.

If you are marketing him to the H/J crowd, showing in hand doesn’t add a lot of value. Personally, I wouldn’t bother. Taking him off property to see how he handles new situations under saddle is useful and relevant. Having multiple riders take him for a spin is useful, but I don’t know how practical that might be with only 30 days u/s.

In many circles a three year old is green broke to WTC for 90 days and turned out to grow up and restarted as a four-year old.

Producing a horse that is a true ammie horse usually takes years of training. I think you would be well advised to market him to a group with more experience.

ETA: In the low 4 figure price range you will get all sorts of oddballs with unrealistic expectations. Folks will want to know if he has his changes, can jump a 3’ course, if he is suitable for a WT student, etc. You’ll get all kinds. Try to lean on a trainer friend to help you navigate through the craziness.

[Scribbler]

I’m guessing this is a stock horse pony with a good mind. Some stock horse types that are naturally calm train up much faster and get ridden earlier than English horses.

30 days training on a QH to go w t c is not unheard of. Lots of trail horses can be well broke to trails but essentially green broke to arena work all their lives. Safe to ride but not balanced on circles, no flying lead change, no adjustment within gaits.

30 days training on a warmblood or even OTTB would barely scratch the surface, and you wouldn’t want to start regular jumping until they are 4 or 5. In addition to being hotter and generally less forgiving of rider error, a jumper would need much more flatwork foundation including muscle and balance that develops over time.

[Red_Barn]

Gotta be a Western horse, right?

If the horse is slated to do some “English” sort of thing, I’d want to see a three year old that’s a nice prospect - that is, a horse that’s sound, has nice gaits and good conformation for my sport of choice, has pleasant ground manners, is smart and reasonably attractive, is good on the longe, has a cheerful attitude, and so on.

If I’m buying a three year old (and I’ve bought several) I want to bring him along myself. The last thing I want to hear is that he’s already been jumping for a year!