about 13 years ago we did a refinance to go to lower rate and shorter term… it took going back 20 years looking for comparable sales of ranchland in the city then they just gave up saying the place was going to be looked as developable land with improvements. The barns ended up appraising at nearly three times the value as a garage or workshop rather than a Barn
2 Likes
We just had a hard time getting anyone to do it. They kept trying to point us to ag loans, and ag loan people wouldn’t touch it because it was in a residential area.
Finally we found hobby farm people and it worked, but it was a nightmare.
1 Like
Yes, this kind of thing can be really wild.
In California, we “resolved” the issue with Proposition 13, which bases the tax rate (and increases) on the purchase price of the property. So, if you bought a home for $100K in 1980, your property taxes are still based on that purchase price even in 2024, when the house is worth $1Mill. Which means, for a purchaser, the ongoing cost of property tax is relatively knowable over time, and the rug is not pulled out from underneath you.
But it raises a “fairness” issue when two houses, side by side, virtually identical in age, floorplan, and family utility are taxed at two completely different rates because of the date that they were purchased in the past. The one bought for $100K in 1980 is taxed at $100K value, while the neighbor house, bought for $1Mill in 2024 is taxed on that much higher value.
I’m not sure what the right answer is.
Different states have different schemes: our $200K house in Illinois is taxed much higher than our $1Mill house in California. Crazy.
2 Likes
Has anyone tried protesting tax appraisals? What did you do, how did it go?
2 Likes
Tax appraisals on all property have gone insane around here, even more in town than rural. Some properties have doubled the tax appraisal value of what they were even 6 years ago.
Before the pandemic, the tax appraisal locally was fairly reliably about 20% below fair market value for a residence in ready-for-market condition. Now tax values tend to be at or above what the property can be sold for, even in a market that has risen considerably over the last 5 years.
I can understand and even appreciate the county keeping property tax revenue up with rising market values. But during the last few years the numbers have been very skewed. I wonder if they are forecasting that the big jump in values during 2019-2022 will continue – that isn’t happening.
1 Like
We do, regularly, in Illinois. Tax Appeals are a freaking cottage industry there. Generally speaking, the taxes are based on the house valuation at the time (so sometimes we win, sometimes we lose) but the point is: if the value goes up, so do the property taxes, and some of those increases have been startling. In Illinois, more people are startled all at once than in California, with their different factoring.
1 Like
What factors do you include in your tax appeal?
Texas is a non-disclosure state, so unless you have the help of a licensed realtor with access to MLS to see actual sale numbers, it is hard to go by what comparable property actually sold for. That info isn’t public.
For those with access to MLS right now it’s fairly easy to prove that comparable property is selling for less than the tax appraised value.
I’ve heard of people using some decrepit conditions of their property to show that the true market value should be lower. I don’t know if that works. Other than that there are low tax values on some obviously rundown properties.
We’ve got tax dispute companies here as well. But for homeowners it is hard to find local help. The locally-based dispute companies work primarily with commercial and investors who own larger numbers of properties. Or homeowners with high-value properties, those are apparently more successful in disputes.
It’s more the nationally-based companies, who do blitz marketing, and take in a bundle of properties to the county tax authority and get them all lowered by some percentage. So the county doesn’t have to expend resources wrangling over each one.
every year, usually get a small reduction of the increased appraised value. We bought in the mid 1989s which has been the starting value, over the years the taxing district has worked the value up to more than four times the value.
There are many (nearly all) of our neighbors whose property tax bills are three, four, five times ours. They bought at much higher prices.
We are now surrounded by million dollar properties as we set humbly. Starting to feel like Jed Clampett, we have all the animals on open land in the middle of the city but we do not a cement pond
6 Likes
My husband just tried this. I had to be out of town, but I prepped him and had all the relevant materials in a folder, and had written out the contextual evidence out for the review board.
It, uh, didn’t go well, even with all that effort and evidence behind it. Left my husband jangled and angry. He hates injustice, large and small, and he felt like they didn’t even listen to him or bother to understand the quite valid reasoning we had laid out.
3 Likes
I protested my tax appraisals every year because my place has been here since the 1850s and was a wreck when I bought it and stuff they were taxing wasn’t even there anymore. So…decrepit conditions worked then. I"m not sure they do now but our county is kind of backwards so I was protesting when that was kind of still the case. I also have an ag exemption that is grandfathered but there’s no way in h-- I’m losing that. From old hog barns and structures on concrete slabs that were long gone, that’s what they taxed on. I made my appointment to protest and took pictures and printed out a presentation and took it with me. I know that they fly over with helicopters to verify. What WILL change a value is if you list the house for sale and they look at the pics from the realtors and there’s a wild difference in what you’ve claimed.
Net net is that it helped me a lot, and when I passed 65 and there was a downturn, mhy taxes went down so that “worked”.
2 Likes
Let him know that one internet stranger (me) is on his side. So sorry he had to experience that. Ignoring property owners is wrong.
4 Likes
That’s so odd I had to test it on Realtor.com
I never realized that information wasn’t public in some states. I can see all the final sales prices for houses I’ve looked at in NY on Realtor.
How annoying!
2 Likes
Can you see anything on your county auditor’s website? You need an address or an owner’s name, but I can see a lot.
My state is a non-disclosure state too and that makes Zillow a menace since they are mostly guessing for their zestimates. I can see closing prices since I am licensed but the general public can’t. The closest they could get is to look up a recorded mortgage on our county website but that doesn’t work for cash purchases or cash/financed purchases. Our property tax value is well below market value and only allowed to increase by a certain percentage a year though we’ve had a lot of property tax value increase drama lately. In order to challenge one’s property taxes here you have to file a complaint within a month time window right after taxes are issued and then go through a process that might or might not go in one’s favor. It’s done at the state level which made it lots of fun working in the Treasurer’s Dept and everyone wanting to complain straight to us about their taxes which were utterly out of our control but we were trapped at the front desk where the taxes are paid.
I wonder who is served by such lack-of-transparency?
When Zillow agents report sales we have the option to put in the sale price but ask the buyer if they want it disclosed. None of them have ever wanted it. There is certainly a RE angle b/c I can see that crazy priced properties are not closing for the list price so it does make a buyer’s agent a handy resource though not necessary. Honestly I think it has more to do with my state’s values on privacy, individual rights etc since it’s decreed by the state and not NAR or our MLS.
1 Like
In reality, I’ve found that the recorded mortgage is little or no help. Only the amount of the mortgage is in those documents. The down payment amount is not, and the purchase price is the down payment plus the mortgage. Did the buyer put down 10%, 20%, 50%? There is no knowing the actual purchase price. That’s in the HUD statement for the buyer & seller, but the HUD statement is not part of the records on file.
Zillow and the county appraisal record (public) used to be reasonably reliably at 20% below fair market value for a market-ready house. So it was possible to assess several comparables and come up with a fairly good market estimate without the MLS.
Zillow and the county appraisal are now all over the place and no longer of much help.
One thing the MLS and the public records do not show are special conditions of the property that may have affected the price. Unless you see phrases such as “fixer upper” or “investor special”. One of the values of realtors is being able to contact the realtor representing the seller and get some information. Usually lowering the price for disrepair or conditions below what comparable properties have (no garage, for instance). But (rarely) someone paid more because of a unique feature they especially wanted, such as an extra large yard for an extra large family, a fenced yard where fenced yards are rare, or a specific lot location that doesn’t have a neighbor, something like that.
1 Like
I am so sorry. I think it is worse when it is a decision that is made for you and not one you want to make.
This is something most of us will face eventually. I think it just takes time to adjust to it and you have every right to whine, complain and be sad.
Letting the horses go is really the hardest thing. I really love having 100% control over how my horses are kept, fed housed etc… and that is a real hard thing to give up when you love doing it. I was a happy boarder before I married so I know it can be done when you find the right barn( sounds like you have).
I am sure it will all work out in the end but the journey getting there will be difficult. I wish you luck on selling and that your body will heal to where you can fully enjoy the horse you will have left.
2 Likes
I’m surprised by the nondisclosure of the sale prices. In my county the sale prices are included with the property information on the county website. They put a copy of property transfer on the website that includes buyer, seller, addresses of both and sale price.
1 Like
That’s what I meant by cash/financed sales. One recent one here I know they closed for 650 but the mortgage was only 500K. Cash sales are not recorded other than the deed. My state usually does property disclosures as part of the listing so that is where the booby traps are disclosed, in theory. Not for rentals or “never lived in” inheritated properties, etc, which often show up as “as is” but in my world that is code for we don’t want to put any money into it, make an offer. Owner disclosures are not required here though so a few agents just don’t do them and let the inspections tell the tale. Those usually use the inspection results as a bargaining chip and pull the price down. Here people will pay stupid money to be on a river or creek and that often comes right around. I live in a strange place where our properties are often fairly neglected but we’re in a desirable area so buyers and sellers are bonking off each other a lot. lol
