Sempatico M /Red Wine -Color?

I have a Sempatico M mare bay Tobiano non homozygous and I want color or at least chrome.

wish list:
Ammy Temperament
Hunter Movement
Bay
Flashy White Markings

Mare super sweet and Quiet, mare is ok mover.

I have read all of the threads on color suppression. Red Wine I believe was tested positive for Sabino. If I cross sabino and Tobiano what are my chances of color suppression ? Is lethal white possible?

stallions I like
Westporte
Red Wine
Balta Czar

What are your thoughts, which if any, would be best choice? Any additions?

Can’t comment on the lethal white but the couple of Red Wines (different dams) in our barn are very dark bay/near black and have gotten a lot of white in their coats now that they are 6 and 7. And, though I know a lot of folks love their Red Wines neither of ours are anywhere close to Ammy friendly. Both are quirky and tough. They are both definitely bay with pretty flashy white. Both are above average but not rock star movers.

Horse must be frame to be lethal white. You are safe there because RW doesn’t carry LW

Sabino (SB1) doesn’t exist in WB, TB or Arab. Red Wine is likely a White Spotting pattern (Formally dominant white)(W+number)

He could be W20 which is known to be a color booster so if you did get Tobiano + W you might get more white if tobiano was passed down with W.

I can’t say who is best choice but there are plenty of Hunter stallions that carry W without supporting an iffy (at best) owner

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If you are looking for color, Pallido Blu is homozygous for tobiano.

Nootka
Do you have any recommendations ?
I was told Westporte suppresses color? What do you think of Amayzing ?

Enyo44
While Pallido Blu is lovely, he is not the type I am looking for.

I could see why he may suppress it. He looks suppressed himself. What about the other stallion they stand [B]Centre Pointe?

I will think on it a bit and get back with you. Do you have a link to her whole pedigree and a picture?[/B]

http://www.lazyjsporthorses.co![](/ljs-semply-amayzing.html

and/or

https://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ljs+sashimi

[IMG]https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/core/blob:https://www.chronofhorse.com/b776c111-2e2c-4466-bafe-43ae46a35bee)

I have 2 mares

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹W20 has an additive effect when added to tobiano. It increases the amount of white, but only if the foal inherits both W20 plus Tobiano. You could also get just Tobiano, or just w20, or neither.

W20 by itself tends to throw a blaze with white legs (or even just white socks). W20 expression increases the most in combination with Overo. It has minimal impact on Tobiano. It just adds slightly more white.

https://colorgenetics.info/equine/gallery/white-patterns/white-spotting-formerly-dominant-white/w20

I like Parcival.

Redbuds Blue Moon (Connemara) has a single copy of W20. It would be more ideal to find a stallion homozygous for W20.

I have 2 Sempatico mares but I only plan to breed one time for myself.

one mare is
http://mpattyn.homestead.com/LJS-Sashimi.html

and the other
http://www.lazyjsporthorses.com/ljs-semply-amayzing.html

What do you think about Aprio?

There are a lot of Apiro’s out there in hunterland right now. Mostly bay, some with white (nothing crazy). The one’s I’ve known up close, including two Apiro/TBx’s are good minded amateur type horses and better than average movers. If you are considering Apiro consider Arko too (both are Argentinus). Which is a better match will depend on your mare.

I suggest contacting Avalon Equine as they now own and stand Sempatico and have experience with most if not all of the stallions you mentioned. And no to Redwine for reasons stated above.

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Isn’t your beautiful filly by Red Wine? I have to say your pictures are what brought him to my attention, she is stunning. Jill aside, do you have any reason you would not recommend him?

Can anyone comment on Bliss? His bloodlines are very nice too and bottom and he is a freakishly good mover.

I have two by Bliss. Both dams had some white, but both foals came out with 4 socks or stockings, and blazes. Both are very mice movers, even the one who’s mom was average at best. Both are super Ammy friendly, pocket pony types. Neither are much more than backed at this point though, but so far have been easy to bring along.

I love Apiro! I have a nice adult hunter by him, and a foal due any day. Some of his offspring have lots of white, others not so much. My mare has just one sock and a stripe.

Yes she is by Redwine (one word) and there is no Jill aside for me. She is more than enough reason to never give him a single glance ever again. That and the EVA thing add up to hell to the no.

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white suppression - that is much less about an individual horse, and is much more about the color.

Extension as E tends to suppress white, so black suppresses it more than brown which is more than bay, and chestnut is the most expressive, all else equal (because Extension is e).

That said, some horses do suppress white, regularly producing chestnuts that should theoretically loud(er), but were minimal to solid.

And likewise, there are some bay/brow/black horses who have and produce lots of white - Popeye K for example.

So your best options are the black-based stallions with chrome who are known to produce it - PK, Amazing, Bliss MF (thought there’s controversy there too, so do the research and decide), the general Balta’Czar/Alla’Czar line.

For sure the Parcival babies who are red-based almost all have lots of white. I’ve seen quite a few black-based ones as well, but most of them also have dams who are (obviously) black-based and also with lots of white. Meaning, I don’t know how much white the black-based foals tend to get when from black-based dams with little to no white.

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I love Popeye K but heard his babies are quirky and not the best movers.

Aprio babies nice but I don’t think he will throw the white I think I am understanding I need the e or black gene.
ElementFarm-I would love to see pics of your Bliss vs Aprio babies!

Amayzing is quite nice, not sure if he improves movement. My mares are both average hunter movers. The one mare threw a pretty moving foal while at LJS by DeCaprio, chestnut with only one small ankle sock and a star. I believe there is YouTube video under LJS Nirvana.

Definitely wasn’t suggesting him, just using him as an example of a black-based horse with, and who throws, lots of chrome :slight_smile:

Aprio babies nice but I don’t think he will throw the white I think I am understanding I need the e or black gene.

Not sure what this means :confused: :lol:

If you’ve got a chrome-y black-based stallion, who also tends to throw chrome on black-based foals, then if he produces a red-based foal, the odds are almost guaranteed you’ll get lots of chrome because there will be that much less white suppression.

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Thank you JB
I thought by black based you meant Homozygous for black bay. For example Bliss is listed as homozygous black bay, genetically EE.

I have taken in a lot in a short time so my head spinning I may have this all wrong.

Aprio has chestnut kids meaning he is Ee or not black based?

Don’t know how to make blue smiley with ?? Overhead but that is definitely me!