This Warwick Schiller episode may be of interest, it talks about how to work on striking a balance between sensitive/reactive and calm/lazy to try to move toward sensitive/calm. Basically you alternate between working on the two (“working” on the calm may just be stand still a few moments until you get relaxed body language, or low energy behaviors like dropping the head with poll pressure), the same way you might work on gait transitions. https://youtu.be/QUH4yPFWcLA
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I did something like that yesterday, literally cantering around with the reins in one hand and slicing the whip through the air with gusto and a nice loud whistling noise. I tried to do this before actually making contact.I felt like a jockey urging my horse down the stretch, waving that whip around and then when needed making contact. It was…unorthodox to say the least, but he kept cantering forward without me needing to nag him with my leg, and had his ears up and was just as happy as could be.
This horse doesn’t scoot from a whip. He learned to lunge as a yearling and I could literally crack him a good one several times across the rump with the whip and all he’d do was keep going instead of stopping. No running. No scooting. No overreaction of any kind. He’s not scared of whip sounds or even getting a truly good swat with one. It’ll wake him up and he understands that it means to go, but he’s not bothered by it in the least. Which is why, when people suggest lightly tapping to get a response, I’m just not sure I’m being clear about how truly chilled and unconcerned this horse is about a whip.
I think yesterday’s happy ride came for two reasons: (1) I let him have his face and stayed completely out of his mouth. I made sure I wasn’t hindering his offers to go forward. He’s pretty balanced and rhythmic, so this was no problem for him. He doesn’t need my interference at all to be comfortable and balanced going around. (2) I wasn’t afraid to really “light him up” with the whip when he wasn’t responding to leg aids or lighter whip aids. I could escalate it right on up quickly enough that he was like, “Oh! Yes, ma’am!” and move forward. And after that I could just cluck and wave the whip a little and he would respond.
And I truly think he appreciated not having my spur dug into his side every other stride too, especially while I was hanging on his mouth trying to cram him into a “dressage” frame. He’s such a stoic horse and had gotten so used to that way of being ridden that he never complained. Bless his heart. He’s probably so happy I found my brain, LOL.
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Just 4 minutes into the video and I’m going, “Yes! Yes!”…thank you for sharing this! Going to finish watching now!
Sure, you never want to give the horse more than it can handle, but the issue I’m talking about goes right to the basics. And I am massively guilty of doing exactly what CanteringCarrot is talking about. For example: I squeeze my horse to ask him to walk. He shifts his weight forward and slowly starts to take a step, so I squeeze again (“Come on…”) and he finishes that first step and starts to give the second step…and I squeeze again (“Keep going…”)…and he finishes that step and starts the third step…and I jab him with the spur (“Let’s go, buddy…”)…and he finishes the third step…and so one. Literally nagging him EVERY step when he starts to walk.
This is how I broke this horse. Pushing him around the field with my leg, heel, spur, whatever. So that, at times I literally have to be actively asking him to move with every step or stride or else he’ll stop. Seriously. All I had to do to get him to stop was stop kicking, squeezing, urging, spurring. As soon as my urging stopped, so did he.
Now, he’s better than that now (most of the time), and we go out for little hacks around the farm and he happily walks on, but I find that it’s become a habit of MINE to continue “checking in” and nagging him a little with my leg and spur basically always nagging him: “Hey, move a little more. Hey, are you stopping? Keep going. Hey, stop crawling like a snail, let’s go. Hey, listen to me. Are you listening? I’m up here. Hello. Move…move more…keep going…”
Is it any wonder he learned to tune me out? LOL. I never taught him that once I’ve asked it’s his responsibility to keep going. I taught him that even when he complied with my request, I was still going to keep asking and asking and asking.
I do it at all three gaits with him. Or it least I used to! I’m stopping as of yesterday! He’s perfectly capable of carrying me around and being responsible for the forward movement part of our partnership, as he showed me yesterday. And actually quite happy to do it. I just had to tell him what I wanted and (most importantly) ALLOW him to do it.
It’s as much about retraining MYSELF to leave him alone and allow him to make the mistakes that I can correct so that he can learn. He knows what pressure is. He’s just never been given adequate release from that pressure to learn how to hold up his end of the partnership.
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A way to explain that is. When you ask for halt and the horse halts you do not keep asking for halr because they are doing it.
In the beginning you do this with all the gaits. If you ask for walk and they walk you praise. You only react if they stop walking. Rinse and repeat for trot. Rinse and repeat for canter and it is started on the lunge.
Then you go for transitions within the gait so you are asking for more forward but you are also asking for slower as well and the horse is praised for both. You are not just asking for forward every single stride. .
They need the break and to be rewarded for it.Then rewarded fir the smallest try at forward Then you end up a horse that will go at the pace you want.
I like that explanation, and it’s exactly right. No need to keep asking for halt when they’ve already done it. Which is probably why halting is his favorite thing…I finally leave him alone!
I rode today, and even though he was good and I was trying, I felt like I kind of let him down a little today. I’m not releasing the pressure and rewarding him the instant he gives me the right answer sometimes, and I felt myself slipping back into my old ways once or twice, plus having to resort to the whip too much and too aggressively sometimes. He felt dull today, and I think it’s because he’s tired of the arena. I do ride him out in the fields and go hacking around the farm often, but this was two days back-to-back in the arena and he was so over it. Next time we’ll go ride out in the field and have fun.
If I tune him up to my leg and do some lateral work and transitions, I can get more responsive upward transitions, but once he’s in the gait he’s so pokey and sluggish that either he just barely dinks along, or he slides back to the previous gait.
Yesterday he was awesome. Today he was good, but definitely not as willing. I’m giving him a day or two off. Then we’ll go ride around the farm and in the big field this weekend. I just signed up to do a working equitation clinic with him at the end of May. We’ve never done anything like that before, and I think just having a new purpose and focus could be good for us both! Maybe it’ll inspire him! 
Mmm, a horse being responsive under saddle or sensitive doesn’t translate into them being dangerous, spooky, or otherwise disobedient. Sensitive does not equal does silly things with a rider.
My responsive and sensitive horse who I only have to make subtle efforts on, is sensible and correctly trained. It shouldn’t take Hurculean efforts to ride a horse. This is something that bugs me, I’m not claiming this is what you’re saying, but so many people think a dull horse is a good “quiet” horse. Not so.
My gelding is sensitive, but I can body clip him or clip him anywhere with no objection whatsoever. He stands there, not tied (well, ground tied), relaxed. It’s about the horse being well trained, yielding to pressure, and listening. A sensitive horse, for me, is easier to work with. I can tone down any excess sensitivity, but hate having to install sensitivity. But that’s my personal preference.
I have had people get on my gelding and say things along the lines of, whoa, he moves! Or when my hips aren’t straight, he’s not straight, he follows my hips, listens to my leg, etc. Well, yeah, as he should! I’ve been riding other horses lately in addition to mine and I find most of them dull (there is one I can literally beat with a whip that only bats an eye) and tuning out the rider, this can actually be more dangerous in some situations than a sensitive horse. When you say Go! The horse has to Go! Now. I really feel most comfortable on my sensitive horse. But then again, is he sensitive, or correct? I suppose that depends on preferences. But one must not make the mistake of confusing a sensitive horse with a horse that doesn’t accept leg or certain aids by overreacting.
But Lordy, they can feel a fly, therefore they can feel you! I always think this.
Glad to hear your making some progress, OP. I think you have your work cut out for you and commend you for recognizing this “problem” and working on a solution.
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Just some questions that came to my mind about this method because I’ve never employed it. So, do you find that this makes horses more noise reactive? As in if you’re riding in a warm-up or other arena setting and someone else is making whippy noises, does your horse react? Or does the horse only acknowledge/is able to differentiate your whippy noise? Does the horse ever “graduate” away from this to yielding to pressure (ie moving forward from leg or whip contact). Or does it take advantage of anticipation. As in, you apply leg, horse disregards, follow with whip noise immediately, horse goes forward. Eventually the horse associates if leg is applied and ignored, the whip noise comes, and I don’t like that so I’ll go forward off of leg.
I’m just asking out of pure curiosity since I haven’t done this and I’m intrigued.
The two horses that I’ve ridden that found benefits from this approach didn’t start from a place of noise reactivity, if you get my meaning. Additionally, I think it’s seeing the motion as much as it is the whippy noises themselves-- to the point where raising the lash of the whip meant “time to start using that hind end”.
As with anything, an escalation aid (whippy noises, the whip itself, a second kick, etc.) is something I try to minimize with time. Use it when you need it but stop the aid as soon as any reaction at all in the direction you want is offered. That practice, more than anything you can do with whips/spurs/etc. is what makes a horse sharper to the aids.
Finally, and I regret not mentioning this earlier-- don’t go to the whippy noises if you’re in a crowded or warmup arena setting. It’s unkind to other horses/riders who might not need that extra pizzazz.
No, you’re absolutely right. And as quiet as my horse generally is, he still has it in him to spook, though he’s never overly dramatic about it. He’s an interesting character in that he has his quirks and can be spooky or wiggly, say, in the barn (been at our new boarding barn for almost 7 months, but he only comes in when I ride and is still wide-eyed and snorty often when we go in there to groom and tack up). But he’s also literally the horse you mention that you can beat with a whip and he doesn’t bat an eye.
I know that you’re definitely right about a sensitive horse also being a sensible horse. In fact, I’ve noticed that since working more on “forward” with my guy, I think he seems LESS spooky and unsure of himself. Today I just went out to visit for a little while (it’s his birthday…aww). I decided to lunge him in the round pen just to see him move and get him moving around a bit since he’d had a couple of days off. I thought it would be a good time to work on “forward” from the ground too. He was really good. Much more keen to move forward and stay moving forward, and much less effort on my part. And when he’d stopped and we were pretty much done, I walked up to him with the whip and just tapped him lightly with it (lunge whip with string tucked and held onto), totally expecting him to just stand there like he normally would, but instead he moved off. I was pleasantly surprised.
I’m going to ride tomorrow, and have no goal except to get him to respond correctly to the lightest possible aid. Even if it’s not perfect (which of course it won’t be), I’m going to try not to over-use the whip when I don’t get the response I want.
But yeah, you’re absolutely right. And I know that. I’ve had sensitive, sensible horses. Best kind, really.
It won’t take long. 2 come to mind. The dappled grey in the herd of 70 trail horses that looked so gorgeous cantering past us out of the fog and back into the fog that the new staff member asked if that could be her horse. We said yes and she was devastated when she hopped on and there was no reaction to any aids. She was just trained to follow the horse in front and ignore beginners on top.
A week in training and she was a different horse.
Dodge was given to us by my instructor. A school horse for many years. We gave him time off and I said we would lunge him for awhile first. Nope he was perfect, but completely ignored leg. He listens to them now.
Be careful with the wiggly. Sim was like that but one day I realised that he was reacting to my leg but he was slow to react and by the time he started going that way it was because I had actually given too big an aid so then the same thing happening the other way as I was being too quick.
So by slowing down my aids, applying and waiting for him to react before applying the next aid was a success.
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I should have clarified. My guy is spooky and wiggly…in the cross-ties in the barn. That’s his nervous place, though he’s getting better. He spent from his yearling year to age 11 at the farm I used to own, and then I sold the place and moved to a lovely small dressage barn to board. We’ve been there almost 7 months, but he lives out in the field and only comes in the barn when I ride or the farrier is there, and while I’m riding more than ever, he still hasn’t spent enough time in the barn to feel 100% settled in in all the time. He’s definitely improving though. But he wiggles while I groom and tack up on some days. Doesn’t on others. Can be a downright wide-eyed, snorting goof on others. It just depends. The goofy days are less and less the more he’s worked. And he actually LIKES being ridden. Ears up, comes to me in the pasture, doesn’t mind being tacked, mounted, etc. He’s just a little anxious/worried at times in the barn. I honestly think it could be an eyesight thing. Some apps have trouble going from daylight to shadow, and he’s always kind of balked at being led into strange barns (like at horse shows) and definitely horse trailers. Even when he was a yearling, I tried leading him into my former barn, which was huge, open and airy, and he wasn’t having it. I had to let him go into the run-in side of it on his own from the pasture. He eventually got comfy there. But this new barn is smaller and there are cats and stuff everywhere and it’s got a concrete aisle (mine was dirt) and things just make more noise and he can’t see his pasture or buddies…blah blah blah.
Sorry to ramble. Your last sentence is GOLD. I have to do that. That is exactly what I do wrong. I’m working on it tomorrow while we hack around the farm. Thank You!
If you ever really want to have fun with this concept, try pairing up with another person to clicker train each other to do random things. You can just say “click”. It is eye opening how hard it can be, even working with a subject as smart as a human, who knows you are trying to teach them something, is participating voluntarily, and understands the clicker system.
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Quick update: Had a really good ride today after a few lackluster ones recently. Other than just a warm-up or cool down walk, I hadn’t ridden him out in the field since losing the spurs and trying to tune him up to my leg and the whip. Today we worked in the covered arena, which he dislikes because the footing is a little deep for him I guess…he feels like he’s on the struggle bus the entire time in there. I think it’s because he’s such a flat, earth-bound type of mover. No suspension in this fella’s gaits at all…so he’s literally shuffling through the footing and kicking it all over the place. BUT, I still try to ride him in there on occasion because I know once summer comes it’s going to be the best place to ride out of the sun and bugs (we just moved to this barn in October). And he WAS somewhat better today in there than the last time, so maybe he’ll continue to improve as his fitness and balance, etc. improves.
So, we warmed up in there, and as I said…struggled. But then I took him out into the big field that surrounds the arena and wow! He was soooo much better. So forward! One time we were cantering and I was trying to ease him into a decent downward to the trot and he just kept cantering and cantering. I remember thinking…OMG…I’m just sitting here and he’s going forward by himself! Hallelujah! LOL
I’m so happy because after the last few rides, I was seriously considering putting the spurs back on. But no! We got this! We’ll put spurs back on eventually, but not yet. Not yet.
I think I’m going to continue warming up in the covered arena and then moving to the field where it’s easier for him and he’s happier. Helps us end on a really positive, forward, happy note.
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What a great update.
Trot is the training pace so do what you said then work on trot outside afterwards.
The suspension will come. It takes time but trot is the one gait you can totally change.
Watch the other horses in the arena. If they a are not kicking sand as well, then it is not too deep, then you will know when your training is correct, as by the time you have to ride in the arena he will not be struggling and not kicking sand.
If all the horses are struggling and kicking sand, do not ride in there. It is too deep and it may cause injuries.
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Thanks.
Yeah, I really need to watch and listen to other horses going in there. We warmed up in there today and it seemed like he was doing better. I didn’t notice the sound of the footing spraying the rail as much as usual, and he was more able to relax his neck and move more forward. Still nothing like I get out in the field. He’s really starting to strut his stuff out there! And the wind was blowing so hard I thought it was going to blow me right off his back one time, lol. Then for added impulsion and some impressive lateral work, we got too close to the big pile of dead tree limbs and lumber that will be burned once the winds die down. I wasn’t even aware we were so close to it…until we performed a lovely pirouette and had major impulsion in the opposite direction. Made me think of the other thread on here about horses spooking the more they work. We worked it out until he was standing close enough to touch the pile and didn’t care. But it was kinda cool to feel him go so forward and then the second time we came past it he was doing some major lateral movement. I said, “See? You can do this stuff when you want!” LOL!
But seriously, he’s getting better. I sometimes forget that it take a while. I usually still have to give him a wake-up call with the whip, but today I only had to do that once and the rest of the time I hardly had to use it at all. Upward transitions are coming much more promptly and a hint of lift and engagement. His trot-to-canter transitions are usually: suck back, get sticky, make a face, throw head up, grunt into a stiff canter. Today he had several that were…well…less terrible (lol) than usual, and one that was so good it surprised me. Like, it came from behind and kind of rolled up through his back. He’s NEVER done that before. So…yay!
YAY.
I do the same thing and my boy knows to reach out and touch with his muzzle if he doesn’t like something as I have done that from day 1.
In your canter transition have a forward trot first and give your inside rein for the transition and see if that makes any difference.
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I will do that, SuzieQ! Thanks!
Oh and LOL at your pirroette away from it. You already know you were too slow that time, but you will be ready for it next time.
Do not allow him to face away from it. He has more muscle in his neck than you have in your whole entire body. Allow them to face away and you can lose them. Making him face up and go up to it like you said is the correct thing to do.
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Yeah, I’ve ridden plenty of spooks before, but I didn’t see this one coming because we were cantering along on the left lead in the big field (that surrounds the big covered dressage arena). So big canter, big field, nice and forward, I’m all" Weee! Look at us!" And then I got him down to the trot and he’s pretty forward (for him) and we’re at the end of the covered arena and usually just keep tracking left and head to the other side to power trot down the fence line…but I decided to mix it up. Let’s change rein and circle right…I said. I knew it would have us venturing a little farther into that part of the field than we usually go in, but meh…no biggie. But we make the change of rein and as we do we come face-to-face with the pile of junk. Like…a few strides away. Oops. Horse said: “WTF? Oh, hell no!” He’s very honest when he shies and spooks, so it’s easy to stay with and ride through, and he’ll actually scoot away and then want to turn and face it himself. I chose to kind of ignore it at first, did my best to remember the TRT stuff and did a half-assed attempt at some of that, bending him around my leg in a few tight circles then asked him to get back to trot. I don’t know what he looked like, but I remember turning to my mom who was watching and saying, “Now he’s forward!” as we sprang away in a semi-controlled trot. I kept going on the big ride around the field and he settled, but when we came back around, I felt him already giving the pile the stink-eye, so I tried to be all casual like we’d just ride by confidently. Instead, he showed me his lateral prowess at the trot (seriously…why can’t he do that when I ask him?). I circled him a few times nearby enough that he was a little worried but could still do his job, and then we went out large again and when we came back it was time to trot around the pile. He was trotting on eggshells around it, but when he got to the point he was trotting so close to it he was about to get tangled in some of it, I figured that was good. I stopped, let him turn and face it and stare. He was close enough to reach out and touch it by then, but because it was pokey, sticky-out branches and stuff, I didn’t let him for fear he’d poke himself and get scared.
He spooked three more times on the ride back to the barn at stuff he’s seen. he got over those fairly quickly. It did feel like a little bit of a game to him at that point. LOL. But no biggie.
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