Sexual Abuse on the Circuit

[Weatherford]

IÂ’ve been thinking about this subject for a long time, and I will admit, it is a hard one to broach.

Sexual abuse comes in a myriad of shapes and sizes and forms – but it is always about power: the power of one person over another. Generally, that is older male over younger female, but it can be older male over younger female, older female over younger male or younger female. Generally the victim fells helpless and guilty and has no clue of where to turn. Often s/he is not believed, even by her own parents. Or s/he feels so embarrassed and rotten about herself and so guilty, that she doesn’t believe her parents will believe.

Case in point: There was a trainer indicted by the Morris County Grand Jury here in NJ for sexually abusing his underage female students. According to the reports, he told them they would never be allowed to ride again if they told their parents. He told them their parents would never believe them over him. Thank God for the one student who spoke up, and the others who joined her!

This should NEVER happen. That trainer should NEVER be allowed NEAR young women again – and certainly not in a trainer capacity. The AHSA, as well as all local associations should permanately ban him from taking part in any equine activities – if he is ever allowed to leave jail. That is my not so humble opinion. And, by the way, it is illegal to have sex with someone who is underage. It is called RAPE.

My real concern is the victims – are we doing anything to help those who are victimized? Can we set up a support system? Are you parents aware of people who are listed on your various states’ Sex Offenders site? (email me) Should these people have access to our young riders - especialy as trainers? What can we do to prevent this?

Unfortunately, IMHO, society, in its attempt to safeguard the belief of innocent until proven guilty – a very important part of our society – has made the victims of sexual abuse also to be victims of the system. In order to put an offender behind bars, you have to have the strength to be smeared though the mud. And that is hard. Very hard – it is often easier to just move away and go the other direction. Avoid the offender.

But, that only puts others at risk – so, please, if you find yourself in this position, get help, file charges, and get more help. Starting right here, if need be. You are right to act, and even more right to put that creep – whoever it is – out of business.

Anyone who needs to is welcome to email me personally for all the support they need.

[This message has been edited by Weatherford (edited 05-16-2000).]

[CTT]

Its only been a day that this message has been up and wow Im impresed on the voice and power of some of the posts. Many good points have been made. Fisher your opinion is so true. It is power that is at the bottom of the issue here. with out power and controll how would these people survive? In the past month and a half we have hit on the topics of: unfare judgeing, anorexia, Alchol and drug abuse, and sexual misconduct. Parents say they like the fact that there childern are in this sport to get away from these things but it seams to be as prominent if not more prominent than we think. For all of these things we can not blame just one area. As I saw with the weight issue people were saying its more of the H/J/eq world that this happens in but is it that we see it more than other sports because it is so hiden? My sister was asistent manager of the San Antonio Rose for a fue years and she said that she would sell more beer and alcholic beveraged to the rodeo events than any of the other sports they had. But My sister said she would see more (too close for comfort) trainers too touchy with there students at the H/J shows. Because of what my sister saw she would warn me of trainers she preferd i not hang around. Her reasons were valid. Why are our trainers too close to our childern? We can sit and say well my daughter has a safe trainer but are they really safe. How can any parent be for sure that that person has not had a past incodent weather or not it has been recorded.

OSmeone had mentioned that the AHSA prefers not to get into this because of legalaties. but they are our governing bodies and it is there job to keep us safe. If we have no safty then why do we feel like we are safe. The AHSA can band a rider for abuse to a horse but not a rider for sexual abuse? And even if they do they half to be first tiped that it has hapend. But how many people have actualy been convicted? See the problem we have is that no one speaks up because they fear their saftey and life. I have seen some valid cases in my time and the main reason that thy are not charged is because there is no actual proof. Its one word against another. There have been saomany cry wolfs out there that the police don’t know if it is real or not. I have been whitness to one of these faulse statements. My ex friend felt she was raped but how can she be raped if she was on top, if she did it mor than once. I talked to the investagator of this case and told him what I felt i also had a very long conversation on why these people get all the attention but the people who have been actualy asulted get little consideration. His reply was this. Many people who are infact raped don’t come out untill the time after is too long. By then there is no proof. Its one word against another and with out hard evidence and other witnesses it hard to convict thats why if it is not an isolated situation it is best to find other victams With more victams even if it is one person ther is a better chance. I also asked him why some states release early when they know that they are guilty and could strike again. He said that its prioraty and even though he does not agree with this there are more killers than anything and they put emphasis on the murders and the drug dealers. Its the publisaty. he feels that sexual asult is as just important as the others and that they are more likly to repeat. Untill leguslation changes there views these people will be turned back into societywhere they do not belong. But what makes it hard to convict and prosacute is the people who feel they were asulted when they infact had not.

So the bottom line is that whats makeing it hard is all the people who make fals statements. Thats why it is extreamly important when you are actualy asulted to document it, go to the hospital (yes the police will get involved but the sooner maters are started the sooner it is over). Without a actual piece of hard evidence it is hard to point the finger that is why that sample pf the seamen is so important. its the only thing that can be physicly traced back to the perpatrator.

Erin I hate to say it but in maters like this since a conviction has been made and there is hard fact police evidence theat the names on this list should be alowed. If it is a fact that these people are on a such list then ther is no liabliaty cause it is hard and factual. now if the judgement is not in and they are only asumed to be then there is where names nead to remain silent. I have seen some of the names on this list and feel that they nead to be viewed by the public.

people like this curupt our hard and worked for industry. people who ware honest and clean are looked down upon because of these people.

Now its time for us to take action and do something about all of these isues. If our industrys governing bodies are not willing to do something its our job to develope a organization to deal with these hard topics. The people who are willing to take action such as me and weatherford can not do it alone. Her and I have spent countless hours talking about these things and the conclusion we come to is that we nead to step our foot in. I see many more sleepless nights ahead as i make my journie back east this june. I made a move by writing my story and its only a start but I took the time to write and let my side be heard. If it is published grate if not I try again. The more articles writen and submited to the various magazines the more these topics will come to be and the more power w will have to do something. As I said before if you want to help please do but be sure you are willing to stick with it. Me laura and weatherford have devoted countless hours to writeing, talking and thinking. If you feel you can make a diffrence please help us we can’t do all of this alone.

[Flash44]

I am totally supportive of prosecuting anyone guilty of committing any kind of sexual crime against anyone, man, woman or child. However, I feel like I need to make a few points:

A parent of a child needs to be aware of any time their child spends alone with an adult. I know girls love to hang out at the barn, but parents should make sure that there are several people in attendance.

Girls DEVELOP CRUSHES VERY EASILY, especially on men who are in a mentor type situation that they look up to. I would bet any amount of money that most male trainers (married or single) who are even slightly attractive have students that have crushes on them. I am just stating a fact, not absolving the trainer of any blame.

Even if someone has been found guilty of something, you can still be liable for damages if you broadcast these facts extensively and ruin the person’s business (Portia?).

[horsluvr]

I believe that the GUILTY party “ruined” their OWN life. They should have considered the reprocussions of their actions BEFORE they DID them. What is with society today?? We bend over backward to protect the guilty! What about the many victims and potential victims out there? The rate of recidivism for a crime of this nature is extremely high. Anytime you want to take your head out of the sand? It will NOT go away by ignoring it.

[MBS]

Erin if you have read my posts you KNOW I have not said anything about this incident directly but PLEASE don’t compare this incident to that of a 18 and 16 year old. I have edited it because I do not want to give any more information that I have obtained with out hearing the whole story. But this is nothing like the type of incident you compared it with.

[This message has been edited by MB Stark (edited 05-18-2000).]

[Snowbird]

What I have gleaned from this dialog is that this is the 2nd thread which proves to me that something is definitely changed in the world today.

My generation knew that not only were we responsible for ourselves but for the whole family. Everyone who lives long enough has the opportunity to make choices. What stops them them from making a wrong decision? It is the repercussions within their world. A mother who is heart broken at the error of your ways, a brother who is embarrassed, or a son who maybe won’t be able to run for president because the news will get out.

Yes, in the best of all worlds there would be no mistakes made by the justice system. It’s not perfect but it is the best we have to live with. Yes, people do have the right to be re-habilitated. That’s my point. If you can’t identify and publicize the person who you believe is a culprit then what point is there to sully the reputation of the whole sport by projecting an image that horse shows are loaded with pedophiles and larcenists.

Again the issue! please not the people who may or may not be guilty of anything. There are always excuses, there are always alibis and there will always be the truth. Parents need to protect their children, that is their job. We do not have the right to create a fool proof environment which eliminates people just because we are afraid! We do have the right to be aware of what our children are doing and not give up that responsibility to anyone else.

It is true that if you must trust your trainer of whatever sex or sexual orientation with your life when you compete over fences especially, then that trust spills over. We should not destroy the trust between the trainer and the rider because of fear. I loved my pediatrician I trusted him with the lives of my children therefore he was the 2nd most important man in my life. But, he understood that kind of adulation and didn’t take advantage of it. Yes, the parents should be there and the doors should be open and that’s my point we can’t be responsible for your children, they are your responsibility.

[Weatherford]

This was not to be a witch hunt. I am afraid for girls like those in the article below - which started this whole discussion - and the generations (!) of girls before these who were afraid to act. And all the other girls (young women) and boys who find themselves in the same position. (Like JaneDoe who posted on the Drugs & alcohol thread)

Those of you who want to witch hunt, I would appreciate it if you go elsewhere. Those of you who are not posting useful information, that is, you are complaining that I, as a moderator, would start such a horrid topic, I’d appreciate it if you would delete your own posts. Let’s get down to business - and do what Laura & CTT have suggested - act together for the good of the community.

I’ve been blasted for starting this thread from all sides - but I want my friends to know where I was coming from. This is where it started. I have deleted the person’s name for the sake of the continuity of this board. Anyone who would like a copy of the article in full can email me. (I have permission to distribute it avvordingly.)

Read it and weep.

--------- Forwarded message ----------
(Horse News is a subsidiary of the Hunterdon County Democrat - Flemington, NJ)

Grand Jury To Hear Charge Of Molestations By Trainer

MORRISTOWN <Name>, a riding instructor and trainer based in <town>, N.Y. who frequently brings students to shows in New Jersey, is charged with sexually assaulting three girls he taught.

The case is being prepared to go to the grand jury, said Morris County Assistant Prosecutor Leslie Wade. Mr. Wade, who works in the county’s Child Abuse Sex Crimes unit, could not say what date the charges would be heard.

``But I hope it’s sooner than later,’’ he said.

In the meantime, <NAME> is free on $125,000 bail, but must report to the probation officer in Morris County every week, said Mr. Wade. The <**> national who trains jumpers can have no contact with the alleged victims, Mr. Wade continued. Nor is he allowed unsupervised contact with anyone under 18, Mr. Wade said.

<Name> 64, was arrested April 28 in Bloomingdale and charged with second degree aggravated criminal sexual assault, two first-degree counts of endangering the welfare of two minors and two counts of sexual assault. He was taken to Morris County jail where he was held until he raised bail. His lawyer, <lawyer’s name>, successfully persuaded a Superior Court judge to lower the amount from $250,000 to $125,000.

The alleged acts occurred between January 1996 and December 1997 at … a Morris County stable where <name> a freelance trainer, occasionally gave private riding lessons.

Police said the victims were 13 and 16 at the time they allegedly were molested. The two younger girls said they were the victims of sexual fondling and digital penetration. The older girl told police she had inter-course with him at a motel.

The girls, … did not come forward immediately with their allegations because they said <name> told them they would not be able to ride the horses anymore if they spoke up, said Sgt. Stephen P. Foley, a spokesperson for the Morris County Prosecutors Office.

Horse News
June 1998

[Snowbird]

OK! on the nhja site I’m thinking about doing a “parents page”. This could be printed out an circulated if anyone wanted to do it.

I think we could all exchange stories because I think almost every child of whatever sex has been exposed to the problem. We also recognize the position they are put in when they want to excell. AND, it’s not just this sport but everywhere that there are children.

SO! my question is can we come up with a page of warning signs for parents? Can we come up with a page that would be able to be given to the child? It needs to tell them them that a “teacher” does not have the option to touch inappropriately.

I remember riding on a subway in New York and a flasher sat next to me. He was doing his thing hiding behind a newspaper and I grabbed his newspaper and ran like hell and got off the subway, to take another train. I always wondered what happened when he was seen sitting exposed to the world.

Can we as intelligent and thinking people make use of this marvelous democratic media to create such a page? Let’s explore the idea.

[Weatherford]

I just re-read Janedoe’s comment on one of the Drugs&Alcohol threads and realized that this topic should not die. I am re-posting it here where it belongs:

“Well, I have not posted in awhile but I would like to share a story with you that deals directly with the horse world and this topic.
Now, as I am closer to my mid-twenties I look back and realize why I feel so much older than that. As a kid I always rode locally and had a great time with my friends and family. As I started to improve my parents and I decided that I could go to a ‘better trainer.’ So, in order to go to the person that was referred to me by my friends I had to move about two hours away. So, off I went with my two horses and moved to an apartment by myself. I was very excited because I felt like I would really improve. Well my riding did but that’s about it. My trainer at the time, who was in his fifties decided to prey on all of the girls there. I was 18 at the time but I came from a rather small town and really hadn’t ever done much partying or drinking or anything else. Well, my trainer got so bad that I was afraid to ever be alone with him because I was so frightened. Of course he would mess with us mentally but telling us how much better we could be, how many great horses he would let me ride, etc. Well, he talked my parents into buying a few horses and also into he and I taking a trip across country to try some. It just so happened to be on a weekend that my mother couldn’t go with me. I was petrified but I was too embarrassed or afraid to tell anyone. So, I ended up going to Chicago and the first night we were there he raped me in my hotel room. I was scared out of my mind but I was mostly afraid of him. He told me I couldn’t tell anyone, he told me that I really wanted to do it, etc. Well, I didn’t know how to get out of the situation but I just kept it to myself. I stayed there and he approached me daily, he would drive to my apartment, corner me in the tack room or follow me in my car. After my parents eventually found out that he had ripped them off for a lot of money I decided to leave. I went away with my horses but still never told a soul. I just figured he was right and that no one else would believe me. After that I dated the biggest losers and really lost all self-esteem that I had. I moved to another male trainer and he was very forceful and flirty and filthy. I eventually got away from it but it took me awhile to realize that it wasn’t my fault. Just recently I finally told a girl who rode there too and she said he tried to do the same to her. She had always wondered why I just kind of left and why I despise him so much. I know this is disturbing and it is awkward to write about over the computer but I really hope this helps just one person realize that they’re not alone. I definitely don’t want to have a pity party here but I feel obligated to share this with you. I think this happens in the horse world more than we can even imagine. So many of the male trainers, married or single,prey on young girls. Both trainers I had knew just which buttons to push and to use the love of my life (horses)- to accomplish their sick and demented goals. Both trainers are alcoholics who have always cheated on their girlfriends, or wives. They continue to dominate other women and feel that it is their right to do so. I still compete very heavily but I keep my distance from most others at the show. I watch it, I see girls who are anorexic, I see others with their fake IDs, partying with their trainers at night clubs. I know plenty who mess with serious drugs and alcohol. I know so many young girls who are quite sexually active and the straight men at the shows use their naivity to their benefit. They try to find the most innocent girl and they corrupt them. Then, by the time they are 30 you’d think they were 50. It is so sad but I happens so much, especially on the big ‘circuit.’ I just with there were other ways of letting these kids know what’s out there and how dangerous this is. Just like convicted child molesters working at the shows. I think it’s crazy how most trainers and riders make a big deal about someone using tack-boots or medicating their horses but they don’t bat an eye when a 45 year old man is dating a 20year old. People didn’t seem to care when a 27 year old rider was dating a 17 year old, isn’t it illegal to have sex with a minor? This happens all of the time. There are so many corrupt individuals, not only professionally but morally as well. I am sorry to ramble on but this subject just really gets to me. Thank you for your time.”

Thank you for yours, Janedoe.

[This message has been edited by Weatherford (edited 06-02-2000).]

[CTT]

Weatherford and all help me answer this question.
We have riders trainers and ect. baned by the AHSA for abuse to the horses, but everyday at the barn or shows we are sourounded by sex ofenders. yet there is a list of riders baned for abuseing there horses but the proper background checks have not been taken to weed out the ofenders when hired. Why is this. Why don’t we have a list. Why do we tolerate people like this? How can we as a group develope something to aware riders and parents of the posable problems that might ocur. We have backgroung checks when we get a job in a larger business so why are people not makeing a list for the parents. If anyone would like to make it known to me or weatherford of people that you would want to be put on such list please let us know. No person neads to walk into a trap. We nead to bring these people to the surface. Even if it hurts there carear.They should not represent this sport in anyway and should not have the abilaty to hurt more. Parents, Students Trainers lets take a stand and make it known we will not stand for any of this trash.

[wtywmn4]

This is such an important subject, and one that our industry wants to turn a blind eye to. Our NF ie: AHSA, needs to be more involved. From what I have been told, they will not get involved. IMHO it probably has to do with legalities, but what happened to morals?

One of the news shows, 60 Minutes, 48 hours or Twenty Twenty just did a piece on children being out of countrol. How bout parenting? This is a lost art. Peoples lives are so busy, they want to be their kids friend, and they don’t have time. It is such a loose knit structure, that no one is in charge. More like the rise and fall of the Roman empire than anything else.

It won’t go away, till we do something about it. Will step down now, thank you…

[Maggie]

You folks sure are tough.
If I get indicted for a crime and choose a jury trial, I hope there are no horsefolks on my jury.
I could be the first inhaler to get the death penalty. Maybe they’ll just degrade me on the Chronicle boards forever…

[Snowbird]

In our current letigious society everyone is afraid of being the recipient of a law suit. What does that do to our civil rights? Why are the rights of the culprits more important than the rights of honest and hard working public?

I find a growing concern that in our efforts as honorable people we have been deprived of the very rights and privileges granted to those who violate the law. The culprit suffers a few days penance but the victim suffers from a loss of self esteem forever!

I commend the poster who disclosed the business practices of Andrew Philbrick for their courage. Who is here willing to risk a law suit by posting the “public record” of the offenders that we should watch out for?

[This message has been edited by Snowbird (edited 05-17-2000).]

[LucianCephus]

It’s my understanding that libel laws cover only defamatory remarks that are UNTRUE. But, then, I’m certainly not an attorney!

[Erin]

It was Weatherford’s decision to start this thread, I assume because she felt it was important that it be discussed and that parents not be blindly trusting of everyone at horse shows. She’s gone out of town, and emailed me this morning telling me she had deleted posts in reference to one person, asked me to keep a close eye on the thread and not close it.

Jumphigh, if you’ll notice, I said the information should be shared among the people who do have kids going to shows… most definitely. But it should not be shared with, say, me, because I don’t.

If you go and look at some of the state sexual offender registration sites, they don’t just list all the people registered. They ask you to either provide a name (i.e. your new babysitter) or a zip code, city name, county name, etc., so you can find out of your new neighbor has a sexual conviction. Obviously, the point of that is to make the information available to those whom it immediately affects.

I didn’t see the post that was deleted, so I don’t know what was said. But I stand by my statements that people shouldn’t post information like this for thousands to see if they don’t know the whole story and are legitimately concerned that someone could be in danger.

[Flash44]

These bulletin boards are read by many people who don’t necessarily post. I go to several racing boards as well, and several weeks ago, we adopted the nickname Fu Peg for the Derby winner, Fusaichi Pegasus. This nickname appeared in a column in the Baltimore Sun this morning. Information on the world wide web spread faster than the flu in New York City. You must be sure of your facts and be able to find proof before you post something that could possibly cause damage to another.

This is such an important topic, but you have to exercise care when dealing with people’s lives.

[N_B_T]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colin:
I must support Louise on this one. I feel that this entire thread has gotten totally out of control. Yes, sexual abuse is something very terrible, and it can be found in the horse show world, just as it can be found in our schools, churches, etc. In my opinion, it’s time for this topic to rest.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With respect, Colin, IMO, it’s not this topic, which in fact should not be ignored; rather, it is the manner in which and the care with which we discuss the topic that needs to be addressed–and is being addressed–at this point.

The issue of sexual abuse, as well as other issues (whether to do with people or with horses) equally difficult to confront, in the equestrian community and in the wider world, will not just go away by themselves. You are fortunate if none of them impinge on your life, but others are not so fortunate. These discussions have real potential to aid the latter, as well as to prevent much future distress for those who may encounter them if they continue.

It is too late to turn back the clock and “unbroach” all the very serious and emotionally-charged topics that have been posted on this board over the last months. In addition, the internet with its amazing possibilities for better or worse is here to stay.

Since these kinds of issues are now being openly discussed, we are at a crux. What happens in the future is very much in our hands. If we exercise those qualities we call for in others, we have the means to do quite a lot of good. If we are careless, we have the means to do quite a lot of harm.

Maybe it’s taken this thread to truly get everyone to realize that we are not “speaking” to a group of friends in our living room or barn aisle (not that some of this belongs there, either!). We are creating a written record, about real people, and real problems, with real implications, in a public forum accessible to everyone in the world with access to a modem.

We cannot be so irresponsible as to undo the bravery of those who have posted some very difficult personal experiences, because we will then have crippled their efforts to redeem those experiences and to help others effectively deal with or avoid similar tragedies.

[Colin]

Weatherford – Your intentions were all VERY VERY good. I realize that. And it is not your fault that this thread has taken off the way it has. Unfortunately, there are too many people in the horse world that enjoy slandering individuals. Regardless of the facts, this forum, which you created in good faith, was not meant for that. However, you have no control of how individuals on this forum interpret and respond to the topic. And, there are obviously some “issues” with naming individuals and specific instances.

Although your intentions were quite proper and acceptable, if I were you I would delete this thread due to “circumstances beyond your control”. i.e., I don’t think that the members of this board are capable of tackling such a topic in an appropriate manner. Maybe this issue is something to take up on a personal basis, such as CTT suggested?

Anyway, for what it’s worth, these are just my own thoughts and opinions on the matter. Thank you, Weatherford, for your intentions. I am only sorry that your thread has come to this.

Betsy.

[oxer]

a good resource is your childrens’schools, most if not all school systems have programs they start at a very young age to inform the children of these issues. there are also multiple websites for the kids online and the parents resources. all the parent/children/teacher websites are very informational. even oprahs’ site used to have information to connect to these. they might be useful for inclusion on your sites as another resource.

[Snowbird]

Weatherford, I agree with you because even before the horses is the care of the children. Celebrity has with it responsibilities as well as the bonus things. We have I am sure all known of “children” that were awed by a “VIP” and therefore were willing to do things otherwise unacceptable, and that many are in denial because they don’t want to believe that an idol has clay feet.

Isn’t this also the problem faced by parents today with the rock stars and athletes from lots of other sports who believe they are entitled to any reward for their celebrity status.

I do hope that this will result in a paper that all barns will include in their packets to parents and juniors.