A VERY important topic. Thank you for bringing it up, Weatherford. There is also a site that gives you a link to whatever sex offender list each state is providing on line. E-mail me for the address for that site. It is so important that parents be as aware as possible about who their children have the possibility of associating with at the shows that they attend, and, even at home.
[This message has been edited by LOUISE (edited 05-16-2000).]
This is a very very scary issue, one which is all to common- and not just in riding. When I was in 7th grade I was switched to a different school- a week before the school opened a teacher from it was arrested for molesting a teenage boy. My mom and I have met this teacher at an open house and liked him - and I would have had him for my firsth term math class! Scary huh? I also have a trainer/friend who used to teach an occasional lesson at a certain barn in NJ. Then she found out that the ‘manager’ was molesting female students and was able to help close the barn down. I do not know what happened to the trainer though.
I agree that you can never be to careful…ever! - and - just b/c someone is a wonderful trainer does NOT mean you can necessarily trust your kids with them!
Sarah
Nancey, beautifully said, really.
Ok Snowbird…it’s not like you to back down. What’s one more post on your 1310?
Be careful that you don’t “bring down these boards” The topic here is one of incredible importance, both on an individual and collegial level. But I feel it is important to be very clear before posting on the web. Before you post you should be able to envision yourself standing before a camera on the nightly news and saying what you are about to post. Because that is what the www is about–“world wide”, and totally accessible to anyone.
This is an issue which we need to be supportive of one another, but keep to the issue and solutions. Don’t “cross the line” carelessly, without forethought. Personalizing it only trivializes the issue and loses support. Individual issues are best left for private womens’ groups or anonomus rooms of 12-step abuse groups. Building bonfires only weakens the entire structure and makes us all look like angry, resentful rabble-rousers. This issue is too important. This is indeed a public forum, but it is not a public soapbox.
Just a clarification, I think Erin meant her last sentence to read “… are not legitimately concerned that someone could be in danger.”
And, as is clear from my earlier post, I agree with her.
[This message has been edited by Portia (edited 05-18-2000).]
I must support Louise on this one. I feel that this entire thread has gotten totally out of control. Yes, sexual abuse is something very terrible, and it can be found in the horse show world, just as it can be found in our schools, churches, etc. In my opinion, it’s time for this topic to rest.
I am a sexual abuse survivor.
Per statistics of several years ago, 3 out of every 4 woman and 6 out of every 7 men have been sexually abused. That means the majority of us have been there and know exactly what effects this has on ones future. Dismal.
I don’t feel this thread should be shut down. We should stand up and not accept this behavior to be just swept under the carpet. If for nothing else, our children’s future.
I’m not saying go out and list every Tom Dick and Harry, but accknowledge that a problem exists.
I realize it is a scary topic, but look at it this way. Sexual abuse is scary when it is happening, it is scary to face and realize the problems it has created in your personal life and it is scary to face and undo those problems. And it is EVEN more scary to realize at some point in their life it may happen to your child. If I can prevent this from happening to my child, I will do that with all my being. And if I can’t prevent it, then I will be there for my child every step of the way, because I know what my child will have to face. And then, child molester, watch out.
OH! Please just stop it, are you saying that if we can’t mention names we can’t discuss an important issue like this. Children have been without any civil rights since the beginning of time when they were born as the “property” of their parents.
I doubt there is a single girl out here that hasn’t had to cope with sexual harrassment. We certainly, can discuss it, and we can find ways to avoid it, and we can find find ways to warn other girls who still have the chance what to watch out for, and we can talk about what is and is not acceptable behavior.
This thread should not be deleted it shows just how difficult this problem is, it shows just how ill-informed we all are, it shows how those who are role models and authority figures can use that position to invade the lives of the children. We have teachers have sex with their students who simply want a good grade, we have priests using their cloak to hide their perversion it is time to expose it to the sunlight so that like little maggots they will find dark holes to hide in and leave us alone to enjoy life.
Oxer, that’s a really good lead. But, time is of the essence for all of us I suspect. I would appreciate a volunteer who would check out these sites and come back with what was most useful for our page. I think if we divided this up with wonderful volunteers we could be helpful.
Louise,
I agree wholeheartedly as both a concerned adult and as an attorney. This is not my area of expertise so I cannot offer any legal analysis or “advice” on the issue. I would, however, caution anyone contemplating the idea of publicly disclosing the identity of an alleged or suspected offender. The laws of libel and slander are alive and well in this country, and for good reason.
If you are seriously thinking about identifying individuals who have been accused or suspected of abuse, PLEASE SPEAK TO AN ATTORNEY BEFORE DOING SO. Do not compromise your own financial and emotional well-being by acting - however justified you feel - without being fully informed of all of the potential consequences of your actions. Do not allow your emotional response to a situation cause you to act contrary to your own best interests.
CTT - that is an excellent question. When I approached a member of the AHSA staff regarding the person here in NJ, I was told to wait until he was convicted, then send the info to the AHSA, and they would take action accordingly. Unfortunately, getting that info has not been easy.
Since Nancy Jaffer broke the original story,maybe she can help us? If anyone knows how to reach her, please contact me! Thanks.
Usually we cannot name people on this site because it is hearsay or gossip. However, if there is an official, competitor, or employee of a horse show (someone above mentioned the Florida circuit, for instance), who has been legally convicted and can be corroborated by public, reliable sources (such as a state sex offender list), couldn’t he or she (shouldn’t he or she) be mentioned??? I think so.
If there is somebody such as this, within easy reach of thousands of children, I implore you, identify this person. I believe it is your duty, as long as you document your source.
Just because you don’t face formal charges, it doesn’t mean ‘nothing’ happened. It means it was plea bargained out of the judicial system to protect most probably the minor children involved.
[This message has been edited by Weatherford (edited 05-16-2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J. Turner:
Erin, I have to say I disagree with you and probably some other people on the boards. Public legal knowledge is just that, public and legal to mention in public forums.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, it’s public knowledge, and I’m not going to delete it if someone posts it. I just think people should know all of the details before broadcasting information like that to thousands of people, and be sure that what they’re doing is necessary.
I’m one of those people who really hates it when local news stations play up those “could there be a sexual offender in YOUR neighborhood?” stories. They cause a lot of panic that may not be necessary. I think parents should be informed of these people, definitely. But not the whole world. The information is out there for other people to find if they want it.
Publicly broadcasting the fact that someone has been convicted of a sexual offense is going to cause a lot more repercussions for that person that saying they’d been convicted of income tax fraud or something like that. I agree that parents should know these things, which is why I suggested that information be exchanged between knowledgeable and concerned parties via email.
But I don’t need to know… it doesn’t affect me, nor does it affect 95% of the people here. If you want my honest opinion, I think the desire to share names has a lot to do with the gossipy nature of the horse world, as seen by the somewhat perverted “You think you have problems” thread I closed yesterday.
If someone has publicly documented information they think is important to share, I won’t stop them. But I hope they’ll think long and hard about what they’re doing before they post.
Just some (long) random thoughts about this topic from someone who works in law enforcement and has some knowledge of the workings of courts and the criminal justice system.
Someone earlier had posted that if there were no charges filed, it doesn’t mean that nothing happened, but that a plea was reached (I’m paraphrasing so I apologize if I’ve got this wrong). That’s not correct.
If no charges were filed it’s because the prosecutor’s office decided, basically, that there was not enough evidence to garner a conviction. They reviewed police reports, medical reports, and other evidence, they interviewed victims and witnesses, and decided that the evidence was not sufficient.
The plea bargain comes in when the prosecutors have sufficient evidence for a prosecution, but agree to a lesser charge for a number of reasons (over-crowded jails; certainty of conviction on the lesser charge weighed against a possible conviction on the greater charge; suspect giving tesimony to convict another suspect).
Another writer wondered if this BB is a not-so-public forum. The answer is yes, it is a not-so-public forum. This forum is owned by the Chronicle and we are here only by their invitation(much as a grocery store or pub invites us in). And, just as one can be banned from a bar for becoming disorderly, one can be un-invited from this forum if the administrators deem it in the best interest of the Chronicle itself or this board in particular. And, much like a restaurant can enforce a dress code or otherwise moderate the behavior of their invitees, the Chronicle can moderate the behavior of posters here, by the criteria they see fit. Which translates into closed threads or rules about naming names.
There is much frustration over the belief that suspects rights supercedes those of victims. Coming from the background which I do, I know this frustration first-hand. On the other hand (soap box alert), it is my strident belief that the criminal justice system of the United States is the most logical, fair, and ethical on the planet. Absolutely there are times when the guilty walk and the innocent are convicted; nothing which pertains to human interpretation–evidence and laws–can be proved to a certainty, the rules of evidence and the criminal justice system are complex, and opinions can be bought and sold. Nonetheless, this system is the greatest.
On the website of the state police of my state–and with whom I’m employed–you can punch in a state zip code and you can discover all the registered sex offenders in the area. That is the appropriate forum for the identity of registered sex offenders, in my opinion, whereas this forum is appropriate for discussing ways to identify the problem as it exists in our sport, and ways to educate and combat it.
Erin, I have emailed you privately, as you know, but I will say this publicly. I implore you to shut down and delete this topic as long as it contains clearly stated or implied personal attacks. No good can come of it.
I would guess that 99% of us have absolutely no first-hand knowledge of alleged OR “legally factual” incidents, and have no right to comment on them without a thought as to the tragic implications for certain individuals. I don’t care if it’s legal or not - it is WRONG.
Shut it down. What ever happened to "he who casts the first stone . . . "
Shut it down.
Lets get constructive. I was thinking as I make my jurnie back eas this summer to sit down with weatherford (well Ill be staying with her) but I want to try to get some us us together so that we can talk face to face. I encurage any of you who want to do some real work to join. Even if you can’t sit with us we do and can comunicate. I want to take all of our ideas and put them into a pot so that it can start to boil. I very much so like the idea of a equine PTA. It is so important to not just educate the children but the parents. I see such a lack of comunication between parents and children and trainers. Its important for us to partner up and become more active in the lives of our future. All groups start like this a fue people that have concerns and would like to do something about it. we have so many grate ideas. some of the thing I have been thinking about as I sit and watch tv as I try to fall asleep is maby a Websight that offers parent advice and help makeing it multi funtional so that we can productivly comunicate. Also I encurage a equine parents association. I feel that these aids will better everyone. Our main concern should be to educate and also to give the helping hand to victams of any sort. Look how long madd has been around and look how now they have so much say in so many issues. We nead to start something so that we can have that power. It a very dangerous tool we have here its called our minds. If we can productively put them together we can acheave anything. I encurage everyone who has the big enough dedacation and desire to join us face to face so that we can talk about this. we can only say so much here. Thats why I was encurageing people to use ICQ so that we can chat in real life and be able to better comunicate. We nead to stop the gosip and get real on how we can do something and make it real. We nead all the people we can get. so how about it put down your bats and lets get the real issues roling and the real ideas roling so that we can adress them.
someone mentioned in a post about those “new to the site” well i am new, and i fully expected to be reading a hunter jumper site and what an unpleasant surprise to see you all bickering online. there appears to be about 4 of you posting back and forth trying to convince each other (unsuccesfully) of your own personal views. why waste the entire site for those of us simply not interested in joining this emotional diatribe and have a conference call or dinner together. it doesn’t appear to me that anyone has “won” over anyone else and the remainder of us have to scroll down through post after post of the same people rehashing the same “stuff” over and over. get together you guys and let the rest of us move on. no one is winning this. or, for goodness sake shut it down if you have to, to put an end to it. as for the topic…
there’s a saying that goes…“don’t start anything you can’t finish”
I have to add my two cents here. This is a serious topic and not a pretty one. It is also a VERY important and real one. For those of “moral superiority” who think to contribute here is “slanderous” or “gossipy”, may you take your Mary Poppins attitudes and remain in blissful denial. You should also hope though, that someone else will alert your young daughter, kid sister, or best friend, to the, all too real dangers in blind trust of your fellow man.
Over the years, I can say, my students have always known my respect of them and their privacy. Along with discretion, a non-judgemental attitude is needed, when it comes to providing a sounding board for these personal and dark recollections. On average, I’ve been asked to serve as counsel and advisor to issues of this nature, to 30 per cent of my female students and/or their friends. I have been privy to testamonies ranging from inappropriate advances by an older male trainer to rape at home by a secret stalker. Another trainer’s 13 year old ran horrified into my tack stall after a “strange man” approached her at the wash rack at a show.
A stranger is always suspect but of all the potentially dangerous characters out there, the most dangerous is the one who is known, trusted, and admired. It goes against the grain of a “good girl” to become outraged when advances of a “confusing” nature are presented to her by such a person, especially if he is older. This, in itself, is his biggest advantage.
I am not advocating a state of constant paranoia but to those of you who have yet to be touched by this nightmare, don’t think it only happens to someone else.
This is a much needed thread, thanks Weatherford.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
