Sexual Abuse on the Circuit

[Weatherford]

IÂ’ve been thinking about this subject for a long time, and I will admit, it is a hard one to broach.

Sexual abuse comes in a myriad of shapes and sizes and forms – but it is always about power: the power of one person over another. Generally, that is older male over younger female, but it can be older male over younger female, older female over younger male or younger female. Generally the victim fells helpless and guilty and has no clue of where to turn. Often s/he is not believed, even by her own parents. Or s/he feels so embarrassed and rotten about herself and so guilty, that she doesn’t believe her parents will believe.

Case in point: There was a trainer indicted by the Morris County Grand Jury here in NJ for sexually abusing his underage female students. According to the reports, he told them they would never be allowed to ride again if they told their parents. He told them their parents would never believe them over him. Thank God for the one student who spoke up, and the others who joined her!

This should NEVER happen. That trainer should NEVER be allowed NEAR young women again – and certainly not in a trainer capacity. The AHSA, as well as all local associations should permanately ban him from taking part in any equine activities – if he is ever allowed to leave jail. That is my not so humble opinion. And, by the way, it is illegal to have sex with someone who is underage. It is called RAPE.

My real concern is the victims – are we doing anything to help those who are victimized? Can we set up a support system? Are you parents aware of people who are listed on your various states’ Sex Offenders site? (email me) Should these people have access to our young riders - especialy as trainers? What can we do to prevent this?

Unfortunately, IMHO, society, in its attempt to safeguard the belief of innocent until proven guilty – a very important part of our society – has made the victims of sexual abuse also to be victims of the system. In order to put an offender behind bars, you have to have the strength to be smeared though the mud. And that is hard. Very hard – it is often easier to just move away and go the other direction. Avoid the offender.

But, that only puts others at risk – so, please, if you find yourself in this position, get help, file charges, and get more help. Starting right here, if need be. You are right to act, and even more right to put that creep – whoever it is – out of business.

Anyone who needs to is welcome to email me personally for all the support they need.

[This message has been edited by Weatherford (edited 05-16-2000).]

[rescuemom]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Unfortunately, IMHO, society, in its attempt to safeguard the belief of innocent until proven guilty – a very important part of our society – has made the victims of sexual abuse also to be victims of the system. In order to put an offender behind bars, you have to have the strength to be smeared though the mud. And that is hard. Very hard – it is often easier to just move away and go the other direction. Avoid the offender.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I could not agree more that no child (or adult) should have to go through sexual abuse or the system abuse that often follows an accusation. Parents should take all steps possible to safeguard their children. But the “innocent until proven guilty” belief is just as important, and strikes a note with me because of a situation in my town. A jr. high teacher was accused of “improper touching” by several of his students. The students were all friends and all achievers. The teacher had been in the county schools for almost 30 years. Because the accusers were all A-students, their initial statements were taken as truth. The teacher was immediately removed from the school while the matter was being investigated, and the case was heavily reported in the local news, effectively destroying the teacher’s career. No problem you say? Anyone accused of such a thing should be destroyed? The kids lied. They were angry at the teacher for reprimanding them, and they got together and fabricated the story.

So when you as a parent are investigating,
focus on fact and not innuendo. Leaving soapbox now …

[N_B_T]

As well as Weatherford, rescuemom and Portia deserve thanks for the balance that their well-expressed points of view provide.

A few comments which I hope will add to the discussion of this topic, and other serious problems discussed on this board:

The equestrian community is composed of horses and PEOPLE; and people will do what they do wherever they are…but it is a very self-contained community, and it sometimes seems to me that methods of dealing with problems concerning horses and/or ethics and/or abuse of various kinds often (NOT, repeat, NOT always!) fall into one of two extreme categories–the “everything is fine, some people are crazy/jealous/negative/busybodies, let’s preserve a dignified silence” attitude; and the “all rumor and gossip has value, everyone with a different approach is wrong/misguided/corrupt, let’s jump to conclusions without facts, be totally subjective and emotional, and vent without regard to the consequences” reaction to events. (None of us will recognize ourselve in either of these two groups, of course! )

It is very difficult to hold a measured, fair, and productive discussion which treats both the members of the equestrian community AS WELL AS the person/s under discussion with compassion AND with concern for effective and necessary positive actions or changes in the status quo.

I personally firmly believe that people who have made mistakes, of any kind, can truly change; and that if (repeat, IF) they do, they should be recognized as having done so, their growth as individuals should be acknowledged, and they should be allowed to put the past behind them. I also wish to emphasize that this may not always mean we can ignore their mistakes, and the implications these mistakes may have for both the equestrian community and the individual/s.

Finally, if people can get up in arms about the lack of respect for our sport implied by wearing a schooling helmet rather than a velvet hard hat, then shouldn’t we be equally outraged at what we permit or endorse vis-a-vis treatment of both horses and people in our community?

Not to mention the frequent violation of the point of the whole thing, which, IMHO, is horsemanship and sportsmanship, the spirit of training and of regulated competition, and not merely the letter or appearance of the method or the goal.

The problem, of course, is determining exactly what constitutes such an offense, and what the correct response and/or course of action should be. I hope our collective wisdom is equal to the task. If we hope to do good, let us be scrupulously careful and just, lest we ourselves make damaging mistakes which cannot be undone.

[wtywmn4]

And why oh why has our society seen to turn the other cheek on this sort of thing? If you say no, I beg to differ. Time and again, we see these people hide behind their 1st amendment rights, we cannot do anything against them. Their hands are slapped, they settle out of court and continue on as if nothing has happened. Jail time, if any is slight. They prey on our children, promise them the world, just to get close. We hear more and more stories of just what they have done!! This IS not acceptable behavior, nor should it EVER be.

[Louise]

We have one of the best justice systems in the world, but it is NOT infallible. There have been too many cases where a person has been unfairly convicted of many different types of crimes, to place your faith 100% in the reasoning that if a person is convicted, there are no extenuating circumstances involved. The fact that there has been a conviction is often a good place to start, but IMO you should make sure that you, personally, know ALL the facts before you broadcast this type of information.

We need to weed out those people who would harm our children, and Laura, I think that the idea of a PTA type organization has great merit. But, we need, also, to be careful that we do not start a witch hunt.

Having said that, I want to reiterate that I think that it is important that parents be as well informed as possible. I stated this in the top of this thread, but, as many people do not start at the top of a topic each time, I want to restate that I have the address for a site that will guide you to whatever sexual predator sites each state has made available. I will not print it here, simply because I’m not sure that the kids need to see it (probably overprotective, but thats the way I feel), but, if you will e-mail me, I will be glad to give it to you.

[CTT]

Ok everyone for thoes of you who did in fact see that link now you know. Im not going to defend this person for there actions but in time people do get there act together. If you noiced it sohapend to be as we see a icolated incodent and the person is under supervision. In other words they mess up or have a tip there lives are literaly screwed. So when you know that if you are being watched it makes you less likely. I think that yes it was a bad thing but how can some of us sit here and destroy a life without first confronting them. Before we sit and destroy this persons life and make it public lets first hear what this person has to say. Instead of concentraiting on the ones who have been convicted lets concentrait on the ones who have not. its a touchy issue. Thnk how this so easaly will ruin someones life and we have not taken the time to hear the story. Maby this person can instead of being our enemy at the moment be an asset to us. see this person has been there and could tell us what it was like to be in this persons shoes. As I have said before in many posts: take a wilk in there shoes and have a feel of what life is like for them. It is fact but before we destroy lives here lets here it from this person. Weatherford you know I dislike people like this but comeon people lets not detroy a life without knowing the whole story.

[Louise]

Thank you Goodmudder, I don’t know how it could be said better.

We are getting nothing constructive done on this thread. Instead of finger pointing at one particular case - OF WHICH WE DO NOT KNOW ALL THE FACTS - we need to discuss ways that parents can be better educated so that they can protect their own children. This probably should be done on a local basis. There is no need for the entire internet world to know these facts.

Come on folks, what about Laura’s PTA idea? Does it have merit? How could something like that be implemented? Should it be started on a local level? Does it need to go national at a later time?

I know one thing, in this age where people move from place to place many times in their lives, and, if I had kids, I would love to be able to go to a local parents equine organization for help, not necessarily to know only what kinds of people that there may be around the area, but in chosing the correct barn and instructor, facilitating showing, etc.

We have so many truly creative minds on this forum. So, let’s create, not destroy!

[AKDragooPhoto]

I think parents should be informed of these people, definitely. But not the whole world. The information is out there for other people to find if they want it.But I don’t need to know… it doesn’t affect me, nor does it affect 95% of the people here. If you want my honest opinion, I think the desire to share names has a lot to do with the gossipy nature of the horse world. – Erin

I agree with your point about the gossipy nature of the industry, but I do have to argue with your point about not needing to know.

I think that if someone is convicted of a sexual offense involving a minor the more people that have contact with that person are informed the better.

It is the nature of this industry not to have constant contact with your child. I would want as many people as possible being atuned to the offenders actions as possible. Knowing that the person has a record I would hope would keep people alert to any inappropriate actions.

(This has not come out as eloquently as I had intended. Hopefully I will not be misunderstood.)

[CTT]

HMM… well my answer for that is many of us have been friends either in person or corasponance. I for one feel at home here. yes others do read out vents but when writing i myself write for my friends. I write to a spasicic audiance. I realy don’t think about the other people reading just the ones who i concern myself with. I for one feel more relaxed here than at xchool or at the bare. See Im still anonomous to many so for all they know Im a tom dick or hary yet they don’t know me face to face. thats why its so easy cause we pose most of us behind a name that is a symbol. So ask yourself why you came here and posted if you want nothing to do with us.

[showrider]

Like I have said before, there are warning signs. You just need to actually LOOK at them. They may seem like nothing at the time, but they are there. Everyone keeps saying to talk to our kids. One must remember, that they may HEAR us, but when it actually happens to a child that THINKS it will never happen to them, they are MORTIFIED. 9 out of 10 times, they are led to believe that they did something to cause this to happen to them. The trainer might tell them that they aren’t doing well enough in the shows, and that they need to do better. On the other hand, they might threaten to sell the horse/pony in they tell ANYONE. They may go as far as bringing in a friend and have someone riding the horse/pony in front of the kid, giving the appearence of someone looking to buy it. It’s been know to happen, and be very effective.

Now you tell me, if you were 9,10,11,12, or any age, if someone you have grown to trust does that to you, wouldn’t you think that YOU did something wrong? That’s why it is so hard to actually get theses people to come forward with the complaint. Most feel comfortable only AFTER someone else gets the ball rolling.

[Sirtalis]

Well, due to some e-mail I’ve received, I’m visiting this thread again to delete my posts. They are now out of context, as the posts to which I was referring were deleted. This thread reads very differently now as opposed to how it read on the 18th, and I’m glad. I know this is just my opinion, but naming names here is not constructive to the cause. If something like an “offender” list is to be successfully presented to the AHSA or the NHJC, it must be done collectively and without naming names. I think people within these organizations will listen more intently if it is presented as a cause. They will tend to not listen if names are mentioned right off the bat. The names can be mentioned under the law once a law is established. Right or wrong, when something can be measured in terms of the law, it has more credibility.

I am all for such legislation. I am not hiding behind a shroud of anonymity on this BB as someone suggested, and my e-mail is available on my profile (and some have used it - great, I welcome interaction).

I also did not come in the spirit of antagonism as the same person suggested. As I said, naming names at this point is not helping this cause as a whole.

We need to support those who feel they cannot report these abuses b/c of the fear of blackmail. This is definitely a widespread issue and affects all of us in some way. Perhaps a group within the AHSA could be established to receive abuse complaints, and somehow provide a counseling network, perhaps with the red cross. Ultimately, these horrible incidents need to be reported, though. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

I am glad people are getting together on this. I had been worried and dismayed that names were mentioned early on, and having been involved in rape issues in the past, I know that’s not the way to accomplish what needs to be accomplished here. Unfortunately, this is bigger than a certain name, this appears to be prevalent everywhere, so let’s present this as a big problem that can potentially affect all of us, not just a few people.

I like what I see happening here, e-mail me if I can help. Thank you.

[This message has been edited by Sirtalis (edited 05-22-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Sirtalis (edited 05-22-2000).]

[jch]

This is an important topic and not just for riders! Whenever we entrust our children to another adult, we must do everything we can to ensure that they are safe. That includes safe from any kind of abuse, verbal, physical and certainly sexual. We, as parents, have to take the time to listen to our kids-sometimes they talk in circles. Look for any changes in behavior. Are there new friends(that make you feel funny), are they overly angry or quiet or just acting in a way that makes you think that something is wrong? We all want things to be wonderful for our kids, so sometimes we try to look past odd behavior by thinking it’s a phase or growing pains. It might be, but it might not. Ask your child direct questions if you are concerned-it lets them know you will believe them. Also, pop in and out of lessons or other situations where they are left with the other adult. You will have a better idea of what is going on that way. Finally, I do not listen to gossip, but if you hear something about the behavior of any adult who has contact with your child, be alert. Watch the way that person interacts with kids and other adults. Trust your gut feelings! No one wants to hear bad news, but if you don’t hear about your children’s problems, you can’t help them find a solution.

[This message has been edited by jch (edited 05-15-2000).]

[Weatherford]

Exactly what I am afraid of, RescueMom, and why I stated “a very important part of our society” and believe that innocent until proven guilty is critical.

The balance is very, very difficult - and critically important. Perhaps keeping the press out is one option - I really can’t amswer that.

However, I also believe there is a serious need in our sport to HEAR and help the victims - and I also believe there are more out there than anyone wants to admit. The long term effects of child sexual abuse far far outweigh anything. And the proof may be more in the behavioral problems others have mentioned than in the accusations.

Thanks for your balance, RescueMom.

[wtywmn4]

horsluvr, saw the same thing. Let’s hope those “issues” are under control. Otherwise, we’ll read about it again…

[J_Turner]

Erin, I have to say I disagree with you and probably some other people on the boards. Public legal knowledge is just that, public and legal to mention in public forums.

These are such serious crimes that are often repeated. As for rehabilitation, sexual offenders often admit that they cannot control themselves, that they will commit again when out of incarceration. Violating a child is not something that I personally could forgive.

It is perfectly fair, in a forum such as this that these people, if they are in close contact with children on the circuit, be mentioned.

Whom are we protecting if we don’t? Certainly not the children.