Sexual Abuse on the Circuit

[CTT]

A list of sighns for parents to look for in there children por posable problems is a bust and I would love to contribute as much as I can to your isdea snowbird so chuck some stuff my way. but also I feel that the parents and children nead to help bevelope a list of ways to tell if this trainer is good for you type list. A list for parents to take with them when going to the barn to rate the trainers attitude and body language.

Alist like so. (add more to this)

First moment you make actual contact what vibes does this trainer make you feel?
Do you feel comfortable or uncomfortable?

While the trainer is conversing with other students what things and type of body language do they use?

Is there un nessacary touching?

When conversing do you feel the trainer is giveing you there full attention?

Is proper eye contact made? when looking at the eyecontact what how do you feel?

How is the enviorment with in the barn?

Ask the trainer these following qiestions

what are your views on trainer student relationship?
do you feel you are fare twards the way you speek to the students?
what are your views and dislikes that other trainers do within the show atmosphere?

I know these questions are not grate but lets revise them and add to them to make a list to help parents find the trainer they nead fot there children.

[showrider]

I have some really good information for all on this topic. Maybe I should say I have first hand experience in this. It’s not even having the victims talk to someone about it. Parents, friends, and relatives need to learn how to read a problem WITHOUT words being said. They need to read how the person is acting. In my case, I acted out really bad. I ran away for days at a time. I stole from my parents and stores ( I was never caught though, even though I wanted to be ). I lied about everything, I drank and did drugs. I fought with everyone about everything. The sadest part is that I didn’t own a horse, so this had nothing to do with being at the barn.

There were 4 tragedies:
I was screwed by the system. Someone didn’t notify that he was released early. He only served 2 years of a 12 year sentence.
He was a priest, then turned ex-priest, who lived in our house.
It was happening to my sister as well, for over 16 years.
And last but not least, I started doing all those bad things around the young age of 9.

My best advice would have to be, pay attention!!!

There ARE signs. You just need to see them. If you have a person, no matter the age nor gender, suddenly strat acting totally different. They could be either outspoken, then all of a sudden become really soft spoken. On the other hand, you could have someone who is what is considered a “good kid”, become a real trouble maker.
These are just 2 of the most common signs. Open your eyes. Let them know that you are there for them, and you will NEVER judge them. Make them feel safe, and maybe they will open up

[horsluvr]

That former director of riding at SB is running a (horse) business as we speak in the VT area. I saw the ad for the ‘grand opening’ in the peddlar or some such local publication. why the wife stayed with him I don’t know but I hope he got his many “issues” under control before diving back into a profession saturated with adolescent females.

[Weatherford]

Thanks again, Janedoe - Your courage inspires!

For those who have not read her post on the drugs and alcohol thread - please do so - it is important and needs to be heard.

Thanks again - I hope you and others like you realize that there is help, and there are people who really care.

[Goodyfourshoes]

I am on the board of a national organization involved with Equine sports. Recently at a meeting, it was brought to our attention that we had recieved an inquiry regarding a certain individual who may - or may not - had been involved with some form of (we don’t know) sexual molestation. This individual has applied for membership in a chapter of our organization. The letter queried whether any of us had heard of this individual in our area, should we allow him membership, did we know anything about the charges. I was MORTIFIED. The person questioning had no proof, and even if he/she did, we cannot judge this person, or deny membership, based on something that is totally irrelevant (and it is irrelevant - just because a person wishes to join a sport, does not make him/her a sexual predator in search of easy prey). In fact, in Canada, putting this sort of allegation in writing, and forwarding it to a - very public - group, without proof - could be considered slander.

This is very dicey ground here, folks. Yes, the victims should be protected. But, please, please have your facts straight before you go destroying a person’s good name. I agree that a convicted offender should be public knowledge. But only to those whom it would affect. It’s a fine line between “public knowledge and right to know” and a witch hunt.

[horsluvr]

Erin and Weatherford have a “good cop/bad cop” thing going here. So what does a witch hunt make? When does freedom of information and/or speech cross the line to litigious gossip? If it HAPPENED…if someone say, LOST THEIR JOB over it…then why must we assume “zebras” when we hear hoofbeats outside our door??? I think IF you don’t want controversial and sensitive issues posted then DON’T POST THEM!!! This thread was started by a MODERATOR!!! So either stop opening the Pandoras Boxes or stick to topics like hoof paint and breeches material. To heck with substance.

[CTT]

Im thinking of starting this up as a second thread but before I do I want to lay down some lines and see who can abide by them. So from this point on you are being teasted. As you know I do not tolerate many things on this type of leval. This was not started to point the finger it was started so that we can talk about his issue in a manerly way. we were able to talk about the weight thread in a very manerly way and when I restarted the Abuse thread we were able to conduct in again a manerly way. as soon s this thread hit around 65 posts I will then evaluate if I want to start it.

These are rules i expect that will be followed on the rest of this thread.

1. Any links that point to an individual person will not be tolerated.

2)Any clues to a person will not be tolerated.

3)links to helpfull sights will be alowed.

4. rude and uncalled for language will be in no way tolerated.

5. Storys and well thought out opinions are welcomed.

I waant us to be able to enjoy these discusions but some of the info and some of the posts have indead put a sower prick in my mouth.

I know I am liked here but unless we can act our age and conduct ourselves in a fair maner when we do talk i will then pack my bags and moove to a new home. I very much so like it here but what are we saying to the new people. that its ok to turn this into a name boiling gossip pot. I very much so dislike this type of conduct thats why I came here because i wanted stimulated talk. If i wanted gosip or names I would go some place else but thats not what i or any of the other members want. Please don’t diapoint me and force me to leave. but all of the gossip I have seen over the past week or so is apauling. It discusts me and for contributing to such rubish is unexceptable. What if any one here was being talked about on another board. How would that make us feel that our lives were becomeing public. Its an invaision of privacy. If we want to protect our children lets put our energy on that instead of continuously talking on one person. Im sitting here tinging what has all of my and weatherfords and lauras work been for. Has it realy come down to this. Has all we worked for for NOTHING? We pour our hearts out into what we work for but If this is to become a personal bashing thing I want nothing to do with it. I will continue my work but instead of it being for all of us it will be for the ones who apreciate what i stand for. Its your decision do we want to work as a team or not?

[HAC]

I’d like to share a story with you all. When I lived on Long Island I kept my horse at my trainers house(she was engaged to a younger man). It was very small I think there was only 3 Boarders tops. My best friend and I spent hours at her barn with no parental supervision, our parents would drop us off in the mornings and pick us up late in the evenings, sometimes we spent the night. Our parents rarely went to horse shows and basically just paid the board at the end of the month. I moved out of the state, but my friend stayed at the farm and of course we stayed in touch. 2 or 3 yrs. later I found that my friend was sleeping with the trainer’s now husband and they had packed up the horses and left the trainer. My friend continued to see this man for another 4 yrs. and her parents appeared to accept this situation. The concern I had was that this relationship robbed her of her teenage years, I mean who can take their 28 year old boyfriend to prom?Just some food for thought.

[AMom]

Somewhere along the line I have missed the posts that named names or even gave strong hints because they were posted then deleted while I was offline. I have to say to those who are referring to the thread as “gossipy” that, as one who hasn’t seen the progression of the thread, if you go back to the beginning of it and read through it right NOW, it would appear to be an emotional discussion about an emotional topic. Should it be shut down? Not in my opinion if it continues to read the way I have experienced it.

What have I learned from this thread? I have learned that just because MY experience at horse shows and around barns has been pretty darn good, there is a lot more to it than my experiences and, if I am ever a parent, I need to heed the advice of parents like Snowbird, et al and pay attention to the greatest extent possible of what is happening with my children.

[horsluvr]

I appologize in advance for my ignorance. I realize that I am NOT capable of handling a serious topic so I will no longer contribute. The moral (and ethical) superiority displayed by the few, have (once again) spoiled it for the many. I also ned to say that the truth sometimes hurts. Whatever I posted, was TRUTH, NOT gossip…even though alot was simply “edited” out. Thank you moderators for saving me from the error of my ways and showing me that topics like hunt coat materials and ear plugs are WAY more substantive than issues that might affect the well being and welfare of our children. Mea Culpa.

[Finzean]

If I were sending one of my kids to a new trainer, camp, or whatever, I would be sure to ask for references. Sure, people can always find someone to say nice things about them, but if you listen really hard and keep your eyes open, you’ll most likely find out what you need to know. I’ve done background checks on my own many times for job applicants, adoption applicants for homeless pets (sounds goofy I know but I am neurotic about sending pets into appropriate homes), and trainers for myself - I have always been able to ferret out the information I needed without smearing anyone’s name. If I asked a trainer for references and he/she couldn’t give me several, I’d be concerned. I’d also ask around to see what other parents with kids that rode thought about different trainers. This can be done in a non gossipy way…ie Susie wants to take riding lessons, I know your daughter rides, what stables can you recommend? I know of several parents who would be a lot better off if they had only taken the time to do a reference check. Sounds simple, but it may be a very telling experience.

[Black_Market_Radio]

The barn I used to board at is the nicest facility in the area, and the way my old trainer got it was that it was a forclosure. However, it has a dark side. The guy who owned it before was locked up for molesting the male students. My trainer has changed the name of the place, and it doesn’t happen much anymore, but they still every once in awhile have suspicions of the place. But after they realize it’s under new ownership as well as a new name, they are fine. The first couple of years were hard though. But they have built a really good reputation now. Thank goodness for whoever spoke up in that situation! I don’t know the details, but I guess it was a really bad case. Especially in the middle of a small farming community!

[Erin]

Perhaps if there are worried parents here, people can exhange information via email. I think that’s the point of the sexual offender registration system… to inform parents of minor children, not to broadcast past convictions for the world to see.

[Snowbird]

I think that as parents we have a real problem because we have mostly chosen this sport as a rather safe environment in which we can protect our children from the realities of a world which seems to be getting more and more ugly.

On the other hand there is this need to protect the culprits rather than the victims.
We give the children this opportunity to express love and responsibility. I have long worried over the fact that an attractive person who is friendly can make offers to children in this sport that would seduce them into believing that what is wrong is really right.

If the child believes that “winning” is everything and even the only thing to achieve excellence then we do the children a great diservice. We have created the fertile ground on which the predator stalks. Yes, it is true that a predator will take advantage of the sheltered child who wants to win with “promises”. How many children would be able to say no! to someone who promised them the road to the Olympics?

So then, do we ban those who are predators or do we examine our principles which make the children vulnerable. I think we need to do both. I find it offensive that there are people out there known to be less than honest and yet are accepted as participants. I find it even more offensive that convicted predators are permitted to be in anyway in contact with the children who may become their future victims. I am tired of the idea that a horse thief needs to be protected from exposure, I am tired of the fact that a dishonest horse trader can be defended against anyone who publicly admonishes him. I am tired of the fact that we as potential victims cannot be shielded from contact with these people who violate the innocense of the children.

While there are people who defend their rights under our constituion and judicial law system, where are the advocates of the innocent victims of all these people.

[This message has been edited by Snowbird (edited 05-16-2000).]

[laura]

This is from the site of the Violence Against Women Office about what different groups can do to help prevent sexual abuse. I found it at:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/vawo/speeches/cheklist.htm

Sports

Today, more than ever, our sports players and organizations have an enormous capacity to influence the minds and behaviors of Americans, both young and old. The reason is simple. For many Americans, professional, college and olympic athletes are today’s heroes. We must utilize this outlet to send a positive message to all Americans about preventing domestic violence and sexual assault. Following are a number of ways communities can work with the local sports industry to help stop the violence.

Bring Sports Leagues Together in a Common Cause. Encourage local sports teams to come together in a joint effort to combat violence against women through joint awareness campaigns and public appearances.

Create Strict Disciplinary Policies. Encourage the creation of disciplinary policies for players on domestic violence and violence against women similar to drug policies. These policies should include stiff sanctions and penalties for committing domestic violence and sexual assault.

Push for PSAs During Broadcast of Sporting Events. Write or call sports leagues in support PSAs about violence against women during the broadcast of major sporting events, including NCAA games.

Promote the Distribution of Educational Materials. Promote the distribution of educational materials from local shelters and programs to players by offering the materials to the teams.

Involve Local Sports Heroes in Community Activities. Involve local sports heroes in rallies and events which bring attention to the problem of violence against women.

Reach Out to Potential Sponsors. If there are businesses in the area that are known for making or selling sporting equipment or clothing, approach them for sponsorship of community awareness activities.

[Jumphigh83]

I wonder how many children (girls OR boys) Erin and Weatherford have that go to the shows?? Could this color their complacency re: this issue?

[CTT]

Ok for thoes who want to get face to face on this topic I will be at two places while Im up there. I encurage anyone and everyone to drive or fly to either of these events so that we can get down to business. I promis you It will be worthe it. I do not disapoint people if they make the effort to give me there time. If any of you want to catch up with me I will be at the festival of champions. I will be ariveing in on the 20th of june. I will also be at lake placid till the 3rd of july. any one who will be at these events pleas contact me. even if you are not going I encurage you to go to the festival. Come and suport our team and give them the encurage ment that is neaded. try to make an efort even if it is for a day.

[oxer]

thank you sirtalis. i too, join you and will henceforth stop “clicking”
but i would like to respond to snowbird, not on the absurd diabribe but what she refers to as the opportunity to vent for theraputic reasons. therapy and healing are based on trust. trust and respect must be “earned” for someone to be able to feel safe enough to vent and gain results. this would be impossible on an open forum. trust? who? who is out there reading? councelling, self-help groups, therapy groups–all these promote trust among members who then feel free to discuss their issues and heal. this is not “healing” but resentment and anger.

[wileycoyote]

Well, I haven’t written anything for a long while, at least since the George Morris fiasco in Florida, but I felt that this needed my input because this is something that hits very close to home.
Not only did I have 2 daughters on the circuit in the past who were subjected to “sexual assault” of one kind or another but also a son who was harrassed as well.

Just last year, I had a mother of a student who had gone away to school, call me and ask about a particular trainer for a private high school. I did not know this man, nor anything about him, reputation or otherwise. So I emailed several acquaintances in the area about his reputation. I was told that “he liked the girls” and would woo them into either showing with his barn all year (and I might ad paying quite a price for this) or woo them into buying one of the horses he was trying to sell.
Ironically this young 16-year-old girl was going through a major case of hero-worship and it was necessary for the mother to make sure she could distance her daughter from this man before something disastrous happened.
So many times, we see the stars of the industry as the gods to look up to and with that comes acceptance of whatever they wish us to do, be it sex, horse abuse, or subterfuge.
I definitely feel that if a trainer and/or rider is a public figure and is someone that warrants professional admiration on the part of students, etc. and if they have a penchant for young girls or young boys that unsuspecting parents should be informed.

[laura]

Snowbird, I think that’s a great idea and I just wanted to let you know that I’ll help any way I can. I’ve already done some research and found some good websites. I dont have time right now, but I’ll try to put some stuff together for you, e-mail me if you want to try to coordinate.