I just recently started leasing a horse that has shivers in both front legs. I lease him from my trainer(who has owned him for 2 years and bought him as a hunter derby horse with a dirty stopping issue) and he had shivers before he came. It does not affect his soundness or jumping or any other activities, but only when you pick them up. When you pick up his front legs, he backs up in the cross ties until his butt hits the back, then trembles and pulls his legs down roughly. If you hold them up for more than 5 seconds at a time, he falls. He is barefoot(most likely because of this issue) and I want to know if there is any way to get him better with this. I don’t know if it’s something that is worked on frequently if it can get any better, or if there are any techniques/tricks to making picking up his legs easier. As it gets into winter, I don’t want all of that muddy wrap stuck in his hooves! Please help!!
Shivers does not affect forelegs. He has some other issue, likely pain somewhere in his knees, shoulders or back. Pain would also explain the “stopping” because either the folding of the forelegs for the jump or the landings hurt. IMO he needs to be seen by a vet. ,
As Patty said I have never known shivers to affect the front legs. Just the back legs. I would recommend a vet looking him over.
Shivers can affect the forelegs, but I’m fairly certain that it is as a result of progression of the disease which begins in a hind leg or legs.
I euthanized my last horse in February of 2013 because the shivers had progressed from affecting only the right hind leg very subtly when it began in 2003 to full body muscle spasms that could not be controlled. (The disease was confirmed by veterinarians.)
Honestly, I wouldn’t lease something like this. Shivers is neurological IIRC, and progressive. The behavior when picking up the feet is classic pain response. And for whatever reason, he is a known dirty stopper.
He hurts. Normal horses don’t act like this. Hope trainer is not charging you a lease fee for a horse that is likely to get you hurt. Like to also say normal trainers don’t put clients on horses like this let alone lease them out. Poor guy.
Kimstar, it sounds as though you had a unique neurological problem. Commonly shivers affects on the hind legs. Difficulties in picking up indivifual front legs such as the OP describes more commonly sounds as though the horse is lame in both front feet or legs which he can compensate for as long as he need not stand on one or the other for more than a fraction of time.
Shivers can affect the forelegs, but I’m fairly certain that it is as a result of progression of the disease which begins in a hind leg or legs.
I euthanized my last horse in February of 2013 because the shivers had progressed from affecting only the right hind leg very subtly when it began in 2003 to full body muscle spasms that could not be controlled. (The disease was confirmed by veterinarians.)
After reading that I did a little online searching and lo ad behold apparently it can, very rarely, be diagnosed in forelegs.
So …mia culpa.
But because of the rarity, and the fact he does not have it in the hind legs, and he was a dirty stopper, I would still be looking for a more common cause like some pain somewhere first.
I am shocked that your trainer thought a horse with such a condition was suitable to lease to someone. I feel sorry for both of you, the horse because he obviously needs some Veterinary attention your so-called ‘trainer’ was too cheap or too shady a character to pay for, and you because you are being expected to deal with this.
The horse needs a Vet. You need a different horse, and probably a new trainer with more knowledge and certainly one with a better code of ethics.
Troll…again !!!
Buddy, these are probably not trolls, but young girls with no experience with good teachers reaching out for help. A shame you have nothing useful to add.
For all of you saying that this horse is “not suitable to be leased or ridden and needs serious veterinary help” you are wrong. This horse is very happy, and he is a fantastic horse. YES shivers can affect the front legs, and this horse has been diagnosed by multiple vets with shivers ONLY in the front. We have also had multiple vets clear him for riding, as it does not inflict him with any kind of pain or trouble, and he isn’t lame from it at all(actually, he wins every hack class he steps in to). My trainer is an experienced horse women, and saved this wonderful horse from an A show barn who was just going to trash him aside after they found out he has shivers, but my trainer saw a great horse with a lot of time left. I really was more looking for suggestions, but I guess all I am going to get is judgmental answers saying my Trainer shady and I need to someone who wouldn’t even own a horse like this(just like the pervious owners did). Thanks anyways??
My shivers guy doesn’t visibly “shiver” in front as he does the hinds, but is actually generally easier to shoe behind than front. Even picking out his front is hard. What has helped him is the EPSM diet - he also has EPSM, and exercising him for twenty minutes just prior to getting his feet done also makes it easier. Also NSaids can help, but my theory with him is that the inflammation of his muscles from the EPSM exacerbates the shivers. I have also heard of un diagnosed EPSM horses being dirty stoppers due to the muscles needed for jumping. They particularly have trouble with bounces and combinations, perhaps triggered by muscle cramping? Anyway, always worth ruling out EPSM as being part of the shivers component.
Has the farrier discovered any tricks for trimming his front feet that might help you?
[QUOTE=merrygoround;7834966]
Kimstar, it sounds as though you had a unique neurological problem. Commonly shivers affects on the hind legs. Difficulties in picking up indivifual front legs such as the OP describes more commonly sounds as though the horse is lame in both front feet or legs which he can compensate for as long as he need not stand on one or the other for more than a fraction of time.[/QUOTE]
My horse’s condition was not unique - the shivers progressed to the point where it was involving his entire body. When in full spasm, I would never have attempted to pick up a foreleg, but prior to the disease reaching that degree, there were no issues lifting a foreleg, only the right hind initially, then also the left and so it went.
I received a copy of a report on the research done jointly by the University of Guelph and the University of Minnesota and he was very typical physically of a horse with shivers: Warmblood (Hanoverian), tall (17.1hh+) and male.
I think one of the most beneficial things you can do for a horse with shivers is to keep them as fit as possible. Unfortunately, I was stuck between a rock and a hard place as my horse also developed hock arthritis at an early age which made the fitness portion very difficult without being very painful.
My horse was not in “pain” specifically from the shivers unless in the throes of a muscle spasm (think charliehorse, no pun intended). But he absolutely HATED being brushed/groomed in most areas. If you put your hand between his front legs, you were in danger of losing it if he could reach it. He did like the large muscles of his neck curried, which most horses do, but I believe he was getting some very uncomfortable “sensations” towards the end when just being touched. About a year before he died, he nearly took one of the barn staff’s arms off when she went into the stall and began to put his turnout on. And this was a horse who would lick you to death, literally, if you gave him peppermints. I think he was just trying to get the point across that touching really bothered him.
I certainly would not knowingly buy a horse with shivers having been through what I went through with my horse for over 12 years. Leasing, possibly, but I would be very wary of the shivers in the forelegs if I was jumping. The horse may not be affected when moving on the flat, but the disease IS progressive (in varying degrees) and I would not want to risk a foreleg giving out while landing over fences. Perhaps his stopping issues are as a result of not feeling absolutely secure when landing? Unfortunately, he can’t talk!
I found that Bute did help my horse, but I had to use large doses (2 grams twice daily tapered off to nothing over a week or so). And one drug that seemed to help in his final days was Valium. But it was very temporary in its effect. Banamine also helped - really anything anti-inflammatory, but here it’s not legal for showing. When he had some serious reactions to vaccines on a couple of occasions, a three day course of steroids got us through the worst of it. And one thing that I feel certain did cause the shivers to flare up was pain: if his hocks were really bothering him, the shivers was worse. (Perhaps the additional nerve stimulation was the reason? Really just a guess.)
[QUOTE=hannahrwhite;7835307]
For all of you saying that this horse is “not suitable to be leased or ridden and needs serious veterinary help” you are wrong. This horse is very happy, and he is a fantastic horse. YES shivers can affect the front legs, and this horse has been diagnosed by multiple vets with shivers ONLY in the front. We have also had multiple vets clear him for riding, as it does not inflict him with any kind of pain or trouble, and he isn’t lame from it at all(actually, he wins every hack class he steps in to). My trainer is an experienced horse women, and saved this wonderful horse from an A show barn who was just going to trash him aside after they found out he has shivers, but my trainer saw a great horse with a lot of time left. I really was more looking for suggestions, but I guess all I am going to get is judgmental answers saying my Trainer shady and I need to someone who wouldn’t even own a horse like this(just like the pervious owners did). Thanks anyways??[/QUOTE]
You asked for advice based on experience. The few shivers horses I have experienced are not pleasant stories and I don’t make stuff up to keep anybody happy. I never heard anything you can “do” with a neurological condition. There is no treatment, it does not get better. It can get much worse over time and anything that can cause a horse to fall over anywhere is way out of my comfort zone to work around or ride.
The A barn was not going to “trash” this known dirty stopper who falls over in the cross ties, they were afraid it would hurt somebody and did not want their reputation resting on a horse like this, might have had trouble finding a farrier to trim him as well. Bit of an ethical question involved as well but it’s not the one you are thinking.
Good luck and stay safe.
There’s so much that’s not known about shivers, as it isn’t all that common (in the grand scheme of horse ailments) and cases seem to vary widely.
I have a horse with classic shivers in the hind end. One leg is worse than the other, but they’re both pretty bad. Performance is not affected in any way and he’s a successful 4’ jumper. He also has difficulties in picking up his feet in crossties…shakes, slams feet down, “falls” onto foot that I’m holding, etc. We found that he doesn’t get panicky if I only hold the foot up for a few seconds – for example, when putting studs in his shoes, process is: pick foot up, pull plug out of stud hole. Put foot down. Pick foot up, spray WD-40 in. Put foot down. Pick foot up, tap with safety tap. Set foot down during tapping if necessary. Pick foot up, put stud in, put foot down. Finally pick foot up to tighten stud with wrench and set down again. Annoying and time consuming, but the horse seems to understand and deal better this way.
Also, I sedate him to be shod. Half a cc of Dormosedan and half a cc of Torbugesic does the trick. Dormosedan alone or with anything else doesn’t work as well; it’s the Torbugesic that makes the difference. Not sure that would work on a horse with shivers in the front legs as it makes them lean forward.
In the end, my horse is worth it, because he’s otherwise a complete angel, and he’s wonderful to ride and jump. On a horse that I didn’t own that was a dirty stopper, I might not consider it worth it to deal with.
[QUOTE=hannahrwhite;7835307]
For all of you saying that this horse is “not suitable to be leased or ridden and needs serious veterinary help” you are wrong. This horse is very happy, and he is a fantastic horse. YES shivers can affect the front legs, and this horse has been diagnosed by multiple vets with shivers ONLY in the front. We have also had multiple vets clear him for riding, as it does not inflict him with any kind of pain or trouble, and he isn’t lame from it at all(actually, he wins every hack class he steps in to). My trainer is an experienced horse women, and saved this wonderful horse from an A show barn who was just going to trash him aside after they found out he has shivers, but my trainer saw a great horse with a lot of time left. I really was more looking for suggestions, but I guess all I am going to get is judgmental answers saying my Trainer shady and I need to someone who wouldn’t even own a horse like this(just like the pervious owners did). Thanks anyways??[/QUOTE]
If your trainer is so experienced, I suggest you ask her.
Findeight is right.
I knew a horse with shivers only in front. He was shod in front, though it was an interesting process. Often letting them lean against a wall helps them not fall down when they lift the leg.
The shivers never progressed. He was successful at upper levels and an entirely unrelated hind limb injury forced his retirement. The only time shivers was a problem for him was when he was being shod or having his feet picked.
I’ve ridden quite a few hind limb shiverers (all KWPN) and none of them ever progressed to anything that bothered them soundness wise under saddle. It was only hoof handling that was a problem. Most were successful FEI horses, one only made it to 4th level because of arthritis in his front fetlocks.
You can’t really do anything to improve it but from my experiences, I wouldn’t worry much about it.
Oh! And one more thing. I find that teaching the horse to hold his own foot up is much more successful than trying to hold it up for him. I give a cue for them to lift the leg and let them hold it at the height that’s comfortable for them. Often they choose to hold it higher than I would ask them to hold it if I were picking up a normal foot.
[QUOTE=Goforward;7835856]
I knew a horse with shivers only in front. He was shod in front, though it was an interesting process. Often letting them lean against a wall helps them not fall down when they lift the leg.
The shivers never progressed. He was successful at upper levels and an entirely unrelated hind limb injury forced his retirement. The only time shivers was a problem for him was when he was being shod or having his feet picked.
I’ve ridden quite a few hind limb shiverers (all KWPN) and none of them ever progressed to anything that bothered them soundness wise under saddle. It was only hoof handling that was a problem. Most were successful FEI horses, one only made it to 4th level because of arthritis in his front fetlocks.
You can’t really do anything to improve it but from my experiences, I wouldn’t worry much about it.[/QUOTE]
Was not aware there were so many KWPN horses at FEI levels competing with shivers. The half dozen horses I have encountered over 45 years were Appendix, full TB or unknown domestic breds, average size, nothing unique and retired from competition when they started falling. It progressed in all of them over time.
Perhaps there are several conditions lumped together as “shivers”? What type of diagnostics confirm it?
