Shoeing Woes - Advice Appreciated

[preppyeq]

I agree with everyone who has suggested getting a new farrier. My horse had very little training (basically walk/trot) before I got her and hadn’t had her feet handled much. I got get her when she was 10. She had the sweetest temperament that someone like me who had only been riding a year could get on her and feel pretty confident and safe so I bought her. Well the lack of handling with her feet caused her to kick out (not hard but she would try to shake you off her leg) when you tried to pick up her back feet and she was terrified of the farrier. Our farrier has to be the most patient person I have ever met. In the two years that I’ve owned my horse I’ve only been there once when her feet were being done and it was a coincidence that I happened to be there but she was an absolute angel for him when I was there because he had been so patient with her. He actually told me that based on her reactions the first couple of times he did her feet he thinks she was abused at some point but based on how she acts now you would never know!

I would look for someone in your area who has experience working with young and inexperienced horses. My farrier used to work with a lot of race horses and my barn gets a lot of young OTTBs because the barn owner likes to retrain them so he has a lot of experience with young and inexperienced horses.

[IPEsq]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8866825]
Considering most of us don’t have a force or blacksmith material, how does one acclimate a flighty horse to the sensation of being hot-shod?[/QUOTE]

A horse should not be able to feel the burn of a hot shoe. What is scary is most likely the sounds and sights and smells. So, you could have your horse hang around nearby when others are (calmly) getting shod, which should provide some level of desensitization.

[GoodTimes]

Given that it seems to be a fear response I agree with the others that I would quit with the hot shoeing for now.
You don’t want her associating the fear of hot shoeing with any/all farrier work.

It’s absolutely unrealistic to ASSume that every horse can overcome everyone of their fears. Pick your battles. Lots of horses fail police horse work because of it. I hate the smell of hotshoeing, I can only imagine what goes through the walnut sized brain of a horse that can’t reason.

OP if your hesitant to switch to a new farrier then I’d give your current one another shot without the hotshoeing and without chasing her around.
If not switch to another farrier.
Spend extra time messing with her feet. Tranq or ride before the farrier comes.
Once she’s good for a regular shoeing then you can re-introduce hotshoeing if you think it’s necessary. Otherwise just pick your battles.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8866825]
Considering most of us don’t have a force or blacksmith material, how does one acclimate a flighty horse to the sensation of being hot-shod?[/QUOTE]

I told folks how to start. Use your imagination on the rest. Or work with the farrier; I’d bet money they have some ideas.

G.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8866912]
A horse should not be able to feel the burn of a hot shoe. What is scary is most likely the sounds and sights and smells. So, you could have your horse hang around nearby when others are (calmly) getting shod, which should provide some level of desensitization.[/QUOTE]

They absolutely can feel to some extent the hot shoe. They cannot feel that it is hot, but they sure as shootin’ can feel that something just did something weird to their feet…

Which is why I said sensation. Because it’s multiple senses.

G, you’re missing the point I’m trying to make. Most horses for the first time are going to freak out about the hiss, the smoke, the smell, and the sensation of the hot shoe and none of that you can prepare them for without the forge…

[J-Lu]

I agree with many of the posts here, especially the ones that said:

a) put a fan on your horse so the smoke blows backwards. This is the ONLY way my horse can be hot-shod. Many horses react at the smell of smoke

b) find a farrier who has more patience for your horse OR can help you figure out why your horse objects so much to his shoeing.

c) really consider if your horse is being difficult and discipline your horse if necessary. My horse was antsy until I slow-fed him treats when the nails went in. Now he gets the treat if he stands well when the nails go in. He was initially afraid (had to deal with that), and then took advantage of that (had to deal with that) and was a bit of a jerk (had to deal with that), now he stands pretty well. He knows I’ll correct him and he won’t get a reward. I don’t fault him, this was the progression of his mental status.

d) if in doubt, can you hire a good trainer to hold your horse and determine what the root cause of your horse’s issues are? (is he being a jerk, is he afraid, is he playing games because he’s bored?)

If there is a better farrier, maybe you could try that better farrier. If this farrier is really good, maybe you can work with him better. A good farrier is worth their weight in gold.

[gypsymare]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8867214]
They absolutely can feel to some extent the hot shoe. They cannot feel that it is hot, but they sure as shootin’ can feel that something just did something weird to their feet…

Which is why I said sensation. Because it’s multiple senses.

G, you’re missing the point I’m trying to make. Most horses for the first time are going to freak out about the hiss, the smoke, the smell, and the sensation of the hot shoe and none of that you can prepare them for without the forge…[/QUOTE]

Be creative. Fire up a small charcoal grill and throw some hoof trimmings on the hot coals. Stinky smoke! A soaked piece of hardwood will smoke and hiss. Throw an old shoe on there and lower it into water to hiss.

Someone else mentioned having her around when other horses are being shod.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8867214]
They absolutely can feel to some extent the hot shoe. They cannot feel that it is hot, but they sure as shootin’ can feel that something just did something weird to their feet…

Which is why I said sensation. Because it’s multiple senses.

G, you’re missing the point I’m trying to make. Most horses for the first time are going to freak out about the hiss, the smoke, the smell, and the sensation of the hot shoe and none of that you can prepare them for without the forge…[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. Depends on the horse. We don’t usually do hot shoeing. The few times we have we’ve not had problem. Maybe it’s the Marchador or Walker temperament or maybe it was prior training or maybe it was because the horse trusted the person holding the lead shank or maybe something else entirely.

The horse has leaned it can misbehave. The owner has to fix that. Changing farriers might work but might not. Changing the horse WILL work.

G.

[Kolsch]

My horses have never had a problem with being hot shod for the first time. I don’t believe that “desensitizing” for each and every thing is necessary in training. Put the horse in enough situations where you test their comfort zone to teach them that it’s OK, they are safe with you, and that it’s OK to listen to their human, and it sets a foundation for how they react to new and different scary situations.

This situation, where the horse has already learned a particular fear, is a little different, IMO. It would be helpful to be able to directly recreate hot shoeing for as long as it takes for the horse to relax. But that ain’t gonna happen. Good suggestions have been made.

Don’t let horses like this suck you into their drama. Laugh it off, be their rock, and remember to also tell them what you want them to do instead of just punishing them for doing something you don’t want them to do.

[Palm_Beach]

[QUOTE=gypsymare;8867342]
Be creative. Fire up a small charcoal grill and throw some hoof trimmings on the hot coals. Stinky smoke! A soaked piece of hardwood will smoke and hiss. Throw an old shoe on there and lower it into water to hiss.

Someone else mentioned having her around when other horses are being shod.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, gypsy. The horse needs to be desensitized to the smoke, the noise of the shoe being dunked in water, etc. Those neat 4th of July sparklers are handy in this type of situation. And cheap too. I don’t think the subject horse has had much desensitizing. I find that once you do some good desensitizing, the horses become desensitized to new things really fast and they adapt to new situations really fast too.

[jawa]

Reasons to hot shoe:

1. The farrier gets a better fit of the shoe.

2. The hot shoeing seals the area.

3. It can thicken/toughen the area. My farrier said he will sometimes use a hot shoe to singe a barefoot horse to make them more comfortable barefoot. He said this is more common in broodmare situations.

4. Working with a hot shoe is easier on the farrier. Their job is hard enough physically as it is, if shoeing hot puts less wear and tear on them physically, all the better. Now if the horse can’t handle the hot shoeing and makes it more physically demanding, then cold shoeing it is.

[Rnichols]

I’m located in California and about half my state is on fire … I think my BO would kick me out if I brought fireworks or a BBQ to the barn :lol:.

I received some excellent advice from you all, thank you! I’ve arranged for my horse to just hang out in the cross ties while some of her friends are getting their feet done within the next few weeks. I’ve also had FIVE different people recommend the same farrier to me, so I’m going to give him a try out (with cold shoeing at first) as well and see how it goes. In the intermittent time I plan to continue handling her feet (which includes banging on them with the hoof pick) and moving her legs around as much as possible to try to make the farriers job easier.

[Kat_the_Horse]

Have you given thought to NOT SHOEING this horse?

Just a wild thought. (lol)

[GoodTimes]

[QUOTE=Kat the Horse;8868403]
Have you given thought to NOT SHOEING this horse?

Just a wild thought. (lol)[/QUOTE]

She already mentioned it’s an ottb with crappy feet, who will be in work. Shoes are likely a necessity.

lol I don’t think I’ve ever been to a barn that would allow a charcoal bbq or sparklers. Pretty sure those fall under the whole “no smoking” near a barn… I get your point to desensitize but most people are pretty limited when they board.

[Dani]

[QUOTE=Kat the Horse;8868403]
Have you given thought to NOT SHOEING this horse?

Just a wild thought. (lol)[/QUOTE]

OP has stated that barefooted is not an option.

[gypsymare]

Warwick Schiller has a good series of videos on desensitizing a 3 year old warmblood mare. You can pay for a single month of video and watch them. It’s a pretty skittish horse and he explains well how to teach the horse coping skills in general and not just to particular stimuli.

[Rnichols]

I just wanted to give a quick update on this, mostly because I’m very happy and cautiously optimistic!

The mare threw her other shoe and I was able to get the guy recommended to me by my trainer to come out and put it back on (and additionally agree to accept us as clients). Even though it was just tacking a shoe on and cleaning up the hoof a little bit, I was still nervous since it didn’t go so well (to put it lightly) last time.

The guy was on time (actually early!), calm and mellow. And what do you know … the mare was perfect. Really, I couldn’t have asked her to be better. No fussing, no pulling back her legs, no trying to run away…just stood there like a model citizen. He’s also agreed to no hot shoeing for the time being, until she gains trust and confidence in him. Then later on down the line we can try to introduce it. Seriously I was so happy I almost started crying…I’m sure the farrier thinks I’m a lunatic, but I’m keeping my fingers crossed that things continue to progress nicely :D!

[gypsymare]

Glad to hear it!

[2horseygirls]

That is fantastically wonderful news!!! :love-struck:

[DJohn]

Excellent!!
Happy to hear this OP