Should I buy this horse?

[Penny3548]

I am in my last year of undergrad in Quebec, but I am from the states. I have been riding a 10 year old Thoroughbred/Clydesdale gelding who belongs to someone at my barn, and I am possibly looking to buy him. He has done dressage and light jumping in the past, but mostly just hacks around with his owner. Last summer he was training with his owner for a 3 day event but he kicks his stall when he is getting fed (at least he used to- he doesn’t much anymore), and he ended up pulling or damaging the suspensory ligament in his back left foot (I am unsure of all of the details- these are what his owner has told me). He was off for a couple of months (I believe for most of the fall) but in November he started being ridden- walked & trotted, and I helped his owner do this by riding him several times a week.

I have ridden him about 15 times now, and will continue to ride him and eventually lesson this semester. He is a very nice, sensible, gentle horse and I really like him- we have started cantering now and he is going sound, just getting back into shape, and I hope to take jumping lessons on him as soon as he is completely back to normal. His owner is interested in selling him to me, I am interesting in having a horse when I graduate, and this is a unique horse-buying opportunity in that I am essentially getting several months worth of riding him and getting to know him while helping his owner rehabilitate him.

Since going back to work, he hasn’t had any lameness or issues at all, which seems good, but I suppose I am wondering about his overall soundness down the road. I do not intend to jump much higher than 2.6 on him ever- I am more interested in just having a good, sound horse to enjoy. I think he is a good hunter prospect- he is a very solid, hunter-y type, and I am also interested in possibly doing some light eventing on him at the 2 ft-2.6 level.

I am patient and willing to take time in making this decision, and if I buy him, I do not mind spending time schooling him over jumps and going slowly to make sure he is sound and well, but of course, ultimately I want a sound and happy horse above all else. I have sought advice from friends, and before I buy him I would of course get a vet check etc. but since he is sound and well, I suppose I am wondering how put-off I should be by this recent injury, even though he seems to be recovered. Should I just intend to ride/lesson him over the next few months and see how he goes before making this decision, or are there any other particular things I should do or be aware of before taking this next step?

Sincerely- an amateur/intermediate rider who would love to buy her first horse but doesn’t know exactly how to do that. Any and all advice welcome.

[skipollo]

IMO if I were a first-time owner, I wouldn’t buy something with a known previous injury like that. Horses are expensive and troublesome enough as it is, especially for your first go. There are plenty of nice horses available without an injury like that.

[Greenacre]

Hi there! I’m new here, but this caught my eye. I disagree with skipolo. This is a horse you know you like, have more time to try, and plan to vet check. Any horse could have undisclosed issues. He sounds like an appropriate mount for you as well. Go for it!

[arapaloosa_lady]

I’d get a very thorough PPE if I were you. Including an ultrasound of the suspensory - and hopefully one was done at the time of the injury for comparison.

But temperament counts for a lot in my mind. And many owners would sell you this horse and simply not include the history of the suspensory injury.

[Saskatoonian]

Nope. This sort of opportunity and horse is a dime a dozen once you’re a known quantity - in a good way! - at a busy barn. After I graduated from college I spent a couple of years riding other people’s horses - I’d get on anything! - and it taught me a ton, didn’t tie me down, and - here’s the kicker - got me the first horse I actually bought, after free leasing him for a year, for super cheap even though he was a PACKER, because the owner wanted me to have him. Good luck whatever you decide to do.

[Fred]

[QUOTE=Greenacre;8503911]
Hi there! I’m new here, but this caught my eye. I disagree with skipolo. This is a horse you know you like, have more time to try, and plan to vet check. Any horse could have undisclosed issues. He sounds like an appropriate mount for you as well. Go for it![/QUOTE]

I agree with Greenacre. You have an opportunity to ride the horse, you know him, like him, and you know the history of his injury.
There are no ‘perfect’ horses, but this one sounds very nice and appropriate.
Good luck!

[Marla_100]

I agree w/ Fred and others and think you should let the owner know you are
definitely interested in possibly purchasing him after he has been deemed totally healed via ultrasound proof.

Sounds like you two are a great match and a plus is that you really get to know him for these months of rehab.

[yellowbritches]

If you like him and enjoy him, I agree, express your interest pending his healing fully. I would ask to see his vet records regarding the injury and ask to speak to the treating vet to get the full story. I would also have the PPE done by a different vet and include ultra sounding the injured area. If the owner isn’t willing to share this info with you, I would be more skeptical, but would still at least do a very thorough PPE with a different vet.

[AKB]

What will your financial situation be when you finish school? Can you afford a horse? Could you live with family for a while so you are not paying rent for yourself and board for the horse until you have a decent salary? Do you have big school loans?

If you can afford a horse, I would get a good prepurchase exam. Personally, I would pick a vet who is a board certified surgeon who does a lot of lameness work. If he says it is healed, I would buy the horse. This sounds like a really nice horse.

[gloriginger]

I agree with AKB- what is the future like after you graduate from school? If you have a job lined up and know that you will be able to afford him, it seems like something exploring. But if the future is uncertain then this is definitely not the time to buy. There will be lots of horses, and it sounds like this one has some uncertainties as well. It’s easy to get emotional about a horse that you have bonded with, but be practical and look at the big picture. If your future possibly involves a move, it is wise to wait.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=yellowbritches;8504413]
If you like him and enjoy him, I agree, express your interest pending his healing fully. I would ask to see his vet records regarding the injury and ask to speak to the treating vet to get the full story. I would also have the PPE done by a different vet and include ultra sounding the injured area. If the owner isn’t willing to share this info with you, I would be more skeptical, but would still at least do a very thorough PPE with a different vet.[/QUOTE]

this is my view. If your goals were higher…he’s a bit more of a risk. But honestly…no horse is risk free. You like him. He sounds suitable pending a PPE. And if it were me…I’d do an ultrasound. My vet is extremely good at them and it doesn’t cost much. I’ve done ultrasounds as part of PPE before.

[purplnurpl]

The real issue here is his mechanism of injury. He injured home self by kicking his stall at feeding time. A chronic habit, so you say.

He will continue to kick and redamage the old injury or even cause himself new injury.

That is,a red flag for me. If you can illiminate that behavior then you have a shot. However, that would call for no stalls…ever. Which illiminates your possibility to show.

[BAC]

[QUOTE=purplnurpl;8504555]
The real issue here is his mechanism of injury. He injured home self by kicking his stall at feeding time. A chronic habit, so you say.

He will continue to kick and redamage the old injury or even cause himself new injury.

That is,a red flag for me. If you can illiminate that behavior then you have a shot. However, that would call for no stalls…ever. Which illiminates your possibility to show.[/QUOTE]

I owned a horse with this habit, he was always injuring himself in some way, we ended up padding the walls of his stall. Although the OP says he seldom does this anymore.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=purplnurpl;8504555]
The real issue here is his mechanism of injury. He injured home self by kicking his stall at feeding time. A chronic habit, so you say.

He will continue to kick and redamage the old injury or even cause himself new injury.

That is,a red flag for me. If you can illiminate that behavior then you have a shot. However, that would call for no stalls…ever. Which illiminates your possibility to show.[/QUOTE]

Not really. I had one that I put in kicking chains. That ended the behavior. Kicking in a stall is VERY common. Horses with this tendency you put in an end stall, be aware of their neighbors. Relocate feed bucks…tons of changes to management can be done to address this issue…and kicking chains (or never stalling) I would say is a last resort and rarely needed.

[Abracadabra]

BIG plus is that you have ridden and experienced him, if you have means & money to take care of him, in the future, and an emergency plan, if he’s unsound, go for it!

[Penny3548]

[QUOTE=BAC;8504622]
I owned a horse with this habit, he was always injuring himself in some way, we ended up padding the walls of his stall. Although the OP says he seldom does this anymore.[/QUOTE]

Yes- he no longer kicks the stall because he has these little bracelets for his back legs- they aren’t connected together, he can move freely in his stall with no discomfort, but if he kicks the stall it makes a rattling noise, so I’m told he doesn’t do it anymore (barn staff told me this)-- the kicking chains looks like these http://www.dmtack.com/products/kc1-kick-chain/

In general he does not seem accident prone- he doesn’t run around or go wild when he’s turned out, even in the winter, and he is not spooky or silly under saddle- to be frank, he’s not really athletic enough to be accident-prone, at least at this point in time, and just generally speaking (he tends to be on the lazier side and is quiet and gets along well with other horses). I honestly doubt that he would be interested in jumping much higher than 2.6 anyway, just because he is a heavier horse as a draft cross (although the TB side has made him lighter than typical drafts and he has a little engine and energy from that) and honestly, my ambitions are more focused around just having a good horse to destress with, especially since I am heading to grad school next year. I will definitely be leaving where I am currently and going back to the states, although I am not yet sure where, depending on where I get accepted (which will also, obviously, factor a great deal into my decision and I can’t make ANY decisions until I know where I will be moving), but it will most likely to a place that is much cheaper for both humans and horses to live (I am currently in a large city). My hope is that with cheap board and cheap rent, that I will be able to afford medical expenses he has, God-forbidding he has any recurring issues. The most I would ever want to do is I possibly some very low-level eventing, which I have past experience with (like 2.6 max) and if that proves to be too much stress for him, I could do low-level hunters (probably at the schooling show level, which I have been doing the last 4 years). So I would intend as much as possible to avoid doing crazy things that would make re-injury more likely.

I would definitely get an ultra sound and get the previous vet records since I don’t know all the details of the injury, and the PPE, of course. Thanks for all the advice- it’s going to be a big judgment call either way, which I am trying to qualify myself to make, but then that is the case with buying any horse. Because of the injury history and the relationship I’m developing with the horse and owner, I am fairly confident I can make a reasonable to low offer on him- I am certainly not interested in over-paying for a horse with a pre-existing problem.

[Penny3548]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8504717]
Not really. I had one that I put in kicking chains. That ended the behavior. Kicking in a stall is VERY common. Horses with this tendency you put in an end stall, be aware of their neighbors. Relocate feed bucks…tons of changes to management can be done to address this issue…and kicking chains (or never stalling) I would say is a last resort and rarely needed.[/QUOTE]

Yes he has the kicking chains now and that has stopped the problem. The other issue is that the horses on his aisle are all pretty nasty and they kick and bite out and are generally grouchy- this horse is not, as a rule- he is friendly to other horses, but I think in a different environment he would be better! Also, they leave the hay sitting out in front of their stalls most of the day- this horse is obsessed with food (keeping his weight down is going to also be something I would have to consider, so there isn’t too much on his feet) and I feel like that aggravates him!

[Penny3548]

[QUOTE=Abracadabra;8504849]
BIG plus is that you have ridden and experienced him, if you have means & money to take care of him, in the future, and an emergency plan, if he’s unsound, go for it![/QUOTE]

I agree- if in the future I decide I want to go horse-shopping, generally I won’t be able to ride the horse a dozen times, and jump it and spend quality time around it for deciding, because sellers generally want you to make a much quicker decision, and they have other buyers in mind, so there is more pressure. I am never going to be able to be the buyer who rides the horse once and then buys it- I’m just not comfortable enough, and the bonding process, as well as seeing how the horse is in many different environments is really important to me! This is a kind of unique circumstance (although of course it does not necessarily entail that I have to buy him) and unless I’m lessoning at a barn that is selling a particular horse and get to ride them over and over again, I’m unlikely to be able to do this that frequently if I decide to officially go out and start looking for horses. I would like to own my own horse, but I am not desperate about it.

[asterix]

I agree with those who say evaluate the injury. Suspensory injuries can be prone to reoccurring but it depends on how serious this one was and how well it has healed. I’d certainly ask for any ultrasounds that have been done (ideally one from early on and one from when he was cleared for work), and then go find a really good sport horse lameness vet and show him the ultrasounds. When you do the PPE, START with the suspensory and do ultrasound it. That way if it is a no go you can stop before you’ve paid for other parts of the exam.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I had horses all through grad school. Did self care. It was worth it to me…and I was able to do it even not financial supported by my parents. It is all on your priorities. I had to work…and no social life. But I preferred the horses.