Should some people just not work with horses?

[BabyGoose]

I am at a crossroads in my life concerning horses. I love horses, I love working with them, being around them, riding, just having them. But I am beginning to wonder if some people should just not be involved with horses. I mean, they don’t have the personality, ability, whatever, to be even kind of successful with horses, even with a trainer. I have been riding/owning horses off and on for about 30 years. I have worked with trainers, bought/leased quiet horses, and I still end up not being able to confidently ride or work with horses. I can buy a bomb proof kids horse and manage to make it something that I can’t ride. I have worked with trainers, good trainers. Still can’t manage to be able to be successful. Other people can ride the horses I can’t. Even less experienced people. The last 5- 7 years I have been working with a great trainer. She has tried hard to match me up with something with no luck. It is hard to explain, but it seems like I have the type of personality, or aura, or something that horses seem to immediately take advantage of. Over the last few years I have put in thousands and thousands of dollars into buying two different horses that didn’t work out for me. I finally decided just to lease a horse so at least I wouldn’t be stuck with him having to try and sell him if it didn’t work out. Things were going okay, but I needed help from my trainer constantly. I had to leave him in training with her because I didn’t have time to ride more than a day or two a week. Well a couple months ago, out of the blue, he tossed me off and I broke my arm and had a brain hemorrhage that put me in ICU for two days. Thank goodness I was wearing a helmet!

So here I am trying to decided what to do next. Thankfully I could just walk away from the leased horse. I didn’t have to worry about spending even more money keeping him in training to sell whatever. So I made ONE good decision. But I am beginning to think that maybe I am just not able to work with horses and ride. Period. Is it possible that some people are simply incapable of dealing with horses no matter how broke, gentle, whatever? Despite how badly they want to be able to? At this point the little confidence I had is shot. I want ride. I want to be involved with horses. But is it something I CAN do. It is very depressing to think the one thing that I really WANT to do in my life I can’t. How do I move on and accept that I just am not cut out for horses when it is my passion? I sit here looking out at the barn and arena that I have built over the years to house my horses. The arena hasn’t been used in years because I ended up having to leave my horses is full time training with a trainer. The pens and barn are pretty much empty except for my older retired mare and one pet mini. I am at a loss as to what to do. How to move forward. I would love to just be able to go out, get on my horse and take a little trail ride. I see other people doing it. People that are also backyard horse folks, weekend warriors, or other middle aged ladies that picked up riding late, whatever. What is it about me that I can’t work with horses without it being a disaster? I could take a break from horses for awhile and do something else. But should I even bother trying to go back to it if all I am going to do is fail again. At 48, I am not getting any younger and recovery from injury takes longer. I never did bounce well, and it won’t get any better the older I get.

Sorry for such a long rambling post that probably doesn’t make a lot of sense. It is hard to describe the situation. Just wanted to talk to other horse people.

[tinah]

Without watching you around a horse, I can’t tell you for sure what’s going on, but the only people I’ve ever seen that “just have a personality horses take advertise of” ate very timid and lack self confidence. For the most part, a horse looks at life as either a leader o a follower. The exceptions take years to create, and only get there with a human leader and a horse follower, because when it comes down to it a horse will prefer the company of a strong leader, so they can stand there and eat without worrying about the horse eaters behind every shadow.

find a trainer that will teach you how to act around a horse, and handle them on the ground. Worry about the riding later. If you decide you just want to be around them for the love of the horse, maybe your place in the world is to have a couple pasture sound retirees that needed a soft landing.

[BabyGoose]

I am definitely not a leader and lack self confidence. And I have acknowledged that and have tried working through it knowing that it is hindering my ability to work with horses. I have done the ground work thing. My current trainer has worked with me on ground handling. I just don’t seem to be able to make a break through. Even after years. It just makes me think that maybe I simply physically, mentally, whatever, can’t.

[Posting_Trot]

I would say that you should just take lessons for now. You can do it as frequently or infrequently as the rest of your life dictates, and often school horses are the forgiving sort that don’t take advantage of their riders.

It may be that you feel that most school horses aren’t working at the level you’re used to working and so would be a step down, but just from your post it sounds as though you need some serious confidence building.

In that vein, it might make sense to reconsider the discipline you’ve been working in. Perhaps if you shifted to a different discipline (from hunters to dressage, or from English to Western), you’d find your niche.

[BabyGoose]

@Bluey

Maybe you put the cart before the horse, for your situation, lining up your life and house and barn and all that before you were there with your horse skills?

You can change your expectations and go take lessons for now, still enjoy horses like that, go on trail rides.
That is all many ever get out of life with horses and are fine with it.
Do what you can do, not fret about what you can’t.

As time goes on, you may change and be more what you want to be, or not and that is ok too.

Here, have a laugh on life:

I was taking lessons for years before I established the barn, arena, etc. The majority of my horse riding life has been spent taking lessons. Very little of that time was I on my own trying to learn. I have been trying to do this for 30 years! I would be fine with just dabbling in horses, going on trail rides, etc. But so far I haven’t been able to even do that without problems!

[BabyGoose]

@Posting Trot

I would say that you should just take lessons for now. You can do it as frequently or infrequently as the rest of your life dictates, and often school horses are the forgiving sort that don’t take advantage of their riders.

It may be that you feel that most school horses aren’t working at the level you’re used to working and so would be a step down, but just from your post it sounds as though you need some serious confidence building.

In that vein, it might make sense to reconsider the discipline you’ve been working in. Perhaps if you shifted to a different discipline (from hunters to dressage, or from English to Western), you’d find your niche.

That is all I have been doing for about the last 5 years is taking lessons at my trainers barn. Either on a horse I own, a school horse, or most recently, the horse I was leasing. I started out just doing a little trail riding, tried dressage for awhile, then did some carriage driving, and lastly, I moved into more of a western dressage type mode. But not for showing or really focusing on it as a sole discipline, just more focusing on trying to learn to ride. I have no problems with just riding school horses. I never reached a level where there WAS anything that was a step down.

[cutter99]

I think you might need to ask yourself some hard questions. Are you attracted to the “wrong” type of horse? Are your issues caused by a lack of confidence versus a lack of knowledge? Are you causing problems with the horse or are you overhorsed? What are your goals and what do you want to achieve? What do your trainers think/ say about what has been going on?

[Sistersiouxz]

All the suggestions have been good. Here is another that, with the right “friend” might be helpful.
Can you board a couple dependible broke horses with the agreement that you could go on supervised trail riding with the horse owner at least once a week?

[Posting_Trot]

Another possibility might be to work with a sports psychologist. There have been a few threads over the years about this, and many people have found it very useful.

This is the most recent thread I could find:

https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/off-course/9690333-sports-psychologist

[BabyGoose]

@cutter99

I think you might need to ask yourself some hard questions. Are you attracted to the “wrong” type of horse? Are your issues caused by a lack of confidence versus a lack of knowledge? Are you causing problems with the horse or are you overhorsed? What are your goals and what do you want to achieve? What do your trainers think/ say about what has been going on?

I don’t think it is being attracted to the wrong type of horse. I have been trying to find something I can ride, not really going for any particular type, breed, color, whatever. I think it is somewhat a combination of both lack of confidence and lack of knowledge. I completely lack confidence. I know that, the trainer knows that, we work constantly on that. As far as knowledge goes, I think someone is constantly learning, so I will always be striving to gain more knowledge, but I am not a complete beginner either. I feel like I am causing the problems with the horse rather than being overhorsed. I have tried to get the most gentle, calm, laid back things possible and before I know it, they are acting up with me. Someone else steps in and they knock off the shenanigans. At this point, I just want to be able to safely ride and enjoy it. I am not interested in showing, going to clinics, etc. I do still want to “learn”. I want to be a better rider. I haven’t had a heart to heart discussion with my trainer yet. I was focused on recovering from my accident. I am currently getting therapy for the broken arm (broken at the shoulder, so it is a mess, will be a long rehab). But I am planning on sitting down with her soon and talking about what she thinks is going on.

[Blugal]

It sounds like you’ve tried just about everything horse/barn/trainer wise. I would 100% recommend a sports psychologist, or even a counselor. It sounds like your issues are very likely coming from within. Maybe your subconscious is sabotaging you. At this point it’s been so long that you might be so anxious about making it work, that it’s getting in the way. It’s hard to know what those inner voices are doing until you take a very good look with a professional who is used to helping deal with this stuff.

I know of two sports psychologists who have high-level horse performance backgrounds. This may make you more comfortable; but it might not also be as suitable as someone who’s used to dealing with the non-competitive side of sports. I have no idea. Try Shannon Thompson or Abigail Lufkin.

[2DogsFarm]

ABSOLUTELY talk to your trainer - even now while you are still recovering.
I wish I had some Magik Wordz to offer, but all I can think of is it sounds like you are a timid rider - despite the decades of experience - and that timidity is telegraphed to whatever horse you ride
Sort of a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

What type of riding is least intimidating to you?
When are you most relaxed on a horse?
Identify that & do it.
Nobody has to do anything that makes them uncomfortable, but everyone should have something to do that is relaxing.

I am a new Mini owner & find interacting with a Travelsized horse is relaxing.
I am also a Newb Driver & tell people driving a mini is like playing Barbies with horses - everything is smaller & easier to handle solo. Helps that this is a calm-tempered baby, makes him a good confidence builder.

Before him I was given a Hackney Pony & discovered how different it is to work with a horse you can look in the eye

I’m not suggesting you start (restart?) driving you mini or downsize to ponies, but find something horse-related that has no anxiety connected with it for you.

{HUGS}
& come back here for more support/advice/whatever

[Blugal]

OP, I’ve sent you a “message” (not sure it’s an actual PM, it said it was a “conversation”, so that’s why I’m letting you know here).

[Bluey]

It will be interesting to see what your trainer tells you.

We can guess until the cows come home and still not hit on your problems by a mile.

As far as horses doing what they do, some times, horses just do things the riders don’t want, at any time, any horse and then quit doing it, not necessarily because of any the rider does.

Sorry you were hurt, that didn’t help the situation any, but that too happens some times.

I expect you have taken longe line lessons also?
Those help with some skills you may not have developed yet.

Whatever way you go, stay safe.

[Scribbler]

In addition to the sports counseling I am going to suggest a thorough physical evaluation by a physical therapist or sports medicine person.

I have known a few folks who just couldn’t get it. Watching them struggle and fail to internalize the simplest instructions even on how to lead a horse, I had to think there was some mind/ body connection deficit. Nothing that was evident in real life where they were charming lovely people.

I would ask for data on your balance, your hand eye ccoordination, your ability to follow spoken instructions, and especially your proprioception, by which I mean how well you grasp where your body is in space.

When I used to do aerobic salsafit classes I was always bemused by what poor proprioception many people have. The instructor would tell us to hold the weights straight out in front, she would demonstrate, and yet most people’s arms would be skewed every which way, and asymmetrical.

Riding and managing horses is primarily about knowing your own proprioception, and then using that body awareness to signal to horses who are genius in this way. That’s why dancers and gymanasts can learn to ride so easily.

If you can’t feel your own body and own your own place in the world, you cannot influence your horse.

I was chatting to my coach about our rerider friend who is getting in a bit of trouble because she slouches and pulls horse on top of herself. I said jokingly I should tell her to shove her boobs at him, do some chest pops, as a way of communicating stand tall. Later I went into his stall alone and tried it out. I stood tall and did a bellydance inspired chest pop (very clunky) and he scooted back from me.

OP do you do any other sports or fitness activity? Riding is after all a sport, and a complex risky one, but it does attract those of us, I include myself, who would never do downhill skiing or whitewater kayak!

At any rate if you do other sports how well do you follow directions and learn? If you do no other sports then perhaps after a physical exam you can take up some very basic strength building exercise with guidance. Lifting small weights with correct form is excellent for developing proprioception.

The other thing is that by this point I m sure you have an inner dialogue of anxiety failure and self blame going on in regards to horses. I am going to guess that you are an anxious person generally. You can’t approach horses like this. You would probably benefit from learning some meditation techniques to let go of the anxiety.

I find horses are my meditation technique but that’s because they were my safe happy place as a kid, and as an adult I practice leaving the world behind at the barn gate. I want to be totally present and focused at every moment I’m with them.

Anxiety has a way of spilling out and taking over.

I would also be interested in how you rate on the ability to concentrate, focus, stay on task, all the things they call executive function. I feel that the folks who don’t get it have trouble keeping to a task mentally. When they are given instructions all sorts of competing ideas crowd out what’s going on and they impulsively do something different because that’s what you suggested last week. There are cognitive tests for this, it would be interesting to know where the deficits are.

Once you have answers you can work on specific skills involved in improving say proprioception or prcoessing spoken directions or focusing on a task or managing anxiety.

Of course all this will be more difficult if the tests reveal an actual cause for mind body connection deficit such as early onset MS or Parkinson’s, a minor stroke, or previous TBI. All things that you might not know but could be life saving to catch sooner rather than later.

[anon55755751]

As a somewhat timid rider myself, prone to creating problems by overthinking and overriding, I can say that one thing that has made an enormous difference for me is being able to “borrow” the confidence of my instructor. I know I have some level of competence inside me after all of the time I’ve invested and variety of experiences I’ve had, but I regularly don’t trust my own judgement of my abilities, and second-guessing myself in real time is one of my biggest problems. If I have an instructor who I trust enough to only ask me to do things that I am capable of, whether I think I can in the moment or not, I’m able to relax and not overthink what it is I’m trying to do and just do it.

I’ve had instructors who were very sweet, genuinely nice, and trying to be encouraging by saying things like “Oh, X is hard, it’s ok if you don’t get it right away, we’ll just take things step-by-step and work up to it” and in those settings, I never work up to whatever “it” is because what’s in my head is “Oh, X is hard, I’m not ready for it yet, I haven’t worked hard enough to do it” or “I need to get these 1000 incremental things 100% correct before I’m capable of doing X,” which can feel overwhelming. I’ve gotten stuck for years and even had prior confidence broken down this way.

Coming off an injury is probably not a good time to try a paradigm shift like this, because you do have to deliberately ignore your own sense of self-preservation to some extent, and there are obviously inherent risks in that. But if overthinking and anticipating problems sounds like something you do, and if you have a good enough relationship with your instructor to believe that she will only ask you to do things you are capable of, no matter how you feel about yourself in that moment, it may be something to try when you are physically back to 100%. Best wishes.

[Jackie_Cochran]

I have no idea if this will help you. I am NOT saying you have a horrible disease, but this is how I finally got so I could ride strange horses without much difficulty. I did have the advantage of 4 yrs. of trail riding as a child so I did think I could ride horses when I got my first horse.

I have Multiple Sclerosis, but I did not know I had MS until I had been riding horses (mostly my own) for 23 years, so I had decades of self doubt. As it was, with EVERY horse I owned, it took me THREE MONTHS of consistent handling until the horses decided that though I was obviously imperfect that I was trying my hardest to ride well and to handle the horses humanely.

I ride Forward Seat, school the horses according to Forward Seat (NO hints of collection), and I do all I can not to interfere with the horses while I ride them except when necessary.

After 23 years of ALL the horses considering me as untrustworthy when I first met them, I learned I had MS. Learning this had no effect on the horses I had trained, retrained, or broke to saddle, they all had decided that I was highly imperfect but “all right” because I was trying so hard to be an effective rider within the most non-abusive method of riding I could find, and before I get flamed IF I had tried dressage or other “higher” levels of riding my extensive handicaps would have tortured the horses (lack of balance, lack of a proprioceptive sense, lack of coordination, and basically a total lack of all physical abilities that help make people good riders.)

Once I learned I have MS, when I started riding other people’s horses, I would stand in front of the horse, “open” my mind and my heart, basically telling the horse that I KNEW something was badly wrong with me and promising that I would do everything I could not to hurt them, including falling off if necessary. And you know something? Even when my MS was at its worst the horses would glance at me, think about it, and I did not have problems with these lesson horses even when I was scared or terrified, on the ground or when I rode, and this includes horses I was allowed to ride even though they were too sensitive for normal lesson riders. And I was truly pitiful when I re-started riding, weak, no balance, VERY unsteady in the saddle, etc., etc., etc…, and, knock on wood, none of them have thrown me yet, in fact they are very careful with me.

But before I knew I had MS strange horses did not particularly like me. They KNEW something was “wrong” with me, and they KNEW that I did not realize that something was wrong with me. The horses thought I was being dishonest and they did not feel free to trust me until I had proven myself over many months. Now I am honest with them from the start the horses are MUCH kinder to me even though I am a much less physically able rider than I was before I knew I had MS, and it no longer takes me months on end to get their trust and cooperation.

I really hope you have nothing “wrong” with your body, but even if you have nothing “wrong” with your body you might want try this technique of mentally “opening up”, being honest about your problems, and humbly asking the horse to PLEASE help you.

So far this has worked for me with one OTTB, several Arabians, some Arab crosses, QH’s, a TWH, ponies, and one draft cross (18.2 hand high, a really big guy), including horses who regularly bolted, balked, resisted all aids, and who thought that they did not have to obey anyone. None of them behave perfectly with me, but they do seem, when necessary, to go out of their way not to dump me even when my riding becomes truly awful and irritating to them, even when I am barely staying on and they could, oh so easily, dump me off of their backs.

Good luck!

[Scribbler]

@Jackie Cochran

I have no idea if this will help you. I am NOT saying you have a horrible disease, but this is how I finally got so I could ride strange horses without much difficulty. I did have the advantage of 4 yrs. of trail riding as a child so I did think I could ride horses when I got my first horse.

I have Multiple Sclerosis, but I did not know I had MS until I had been riding horses (mostly my own) for 23 years, so I had decades of self doubt. As it was, with EVERY horse I owned, it took me THREE MONTHS of consistent handling until the horses decided that though I was obviously imperfect that I was trying my hardest to ride well and to handle the horses humanely.

I ride Forward Seat, school the horses according to Forward Seat (NO hints of collection), and I do all I can not to interfere with the horses while I ride them except when necessary.

After 23 years of ALL the horses considering me as untrustworthy when I first met them, I learned I had MS. Learning this had no effect on the horses I had trained, retrained, or broke to saddle, they all had decided that I was highly imperfect but “all right” because I was trying so hard to be an effective rider within the most non-abusive method of riding I could find, and before I get flamed IF I had tried dressage or other “higher” levels of riding my extensive handicaps would have tortured the horses (lack of balance, lack of a proprioceptive sense, lack of coordination, and basically a total lack of all physical abilities that help make people good riders.)

Once I learned I have MS, when I started riding other people’s horses, I would stand in front of the horse, “open” my mind and my heart, basically telling the horse that I KNEW something was badly wrong with me and promising that I would do everything I could not to hurt them, including falling off if necessary. And you know something? Even when my MS was at its worst the horses would glance at me, think about it, and I did not have problems with these lesson horses even when I was scared or terrified, on the ground or when I rode, and this includes horses I was allowed to ride even though they were too sensitive for normal lesson riders. And I was truly pitiful when I re-started riding, weak, no balance, VERY unsteady in the saddle, etc., etc., etc…, and, knock on wood, none of them have thrown me yet, in fact they are very careful with me.

But before I knew I had MS strange horses did not particularly like me. They KNEW something was “wrong” with me, and they KNEW that I did not realize that something was wrong with me. The horses thought I was being dishonest and they did not feel free to trust me until I had proven myself over many months. Now I am honest with them from the start the horses are MUCH kinder to me even though I am a much less physically able rider than I was before I knew I had MS, and it no longer takes me months on end to get their trust and cooperation.

I really hope you have nothing “wrong” with your body, but even if you have nothing “wrong” with your body you might want try this technique of mentally “opening up”, being honest about your problems, and humbly asking the horse to PLEASE help you.

So far this has worked for me with one OTTB, several Arabians, some Arab crosses, QH’s, a TWH, ponies, and one draft cross (18.2 hand high, a really big guy), including horses who regularly bolted, balked, resisted all aids, and who thought that they did not have to obey anyone. None of them behave perfectly with me, but they do seem, when necessary, to go out of their way not to dump me even when my riding becomes truly awful and irritating to them, even when I am barely staying on and they could, oh so easily, dump me off of their backs.

Good luck!

I love your story!

It reminds me of how many horses will take care of a small child who comes to them with an open heart.

Also of the value of learning to know and accept ourselves.

[candyappy]

@BabyGoose

I don’t think it is being attracted to the wrong type of horse. I have been trying to find something I can ride, not really going for any particular type, breed, color, whatever. I think it is somewhat a combination of both lack of confidence and lack of knowledge. I completely lack confidence. I know that, the trainer knows that, we work constantly on that. As far as knowledge goes, I think someone is constantly learning, so I will always be striving to gain more knowledge, but I am not a complete beginner either. I feel like I am causing the problems with the horse rather than being overhorsed. I have tried to get the most gentle, calm, laid back things possible and before I know it, they are acting up with me. Someone else steps in and they knock off the shenanigans. At this point, I just want to be able to safely ride and enjoy it. I am not interested in showing, going to clinics, etc. I do still want to “learn”. I want to be a better rider. I haven’t had a heart to heart discussion with my trainer yet. I was focused on recovering from my accident. I am currently getting therapy for the broken arm (broken at the shoulder, so it is a mess, will be a long rehab). But I am planning on sitting down with her soon and talking about what she thinks is going on.

Maybe you are trying too hard? If riding for fun and going calmly down the trail would make you happy then focus on that?

Jumping from one discipline to another and failing at it does nothing to increase your self confidence. I wonder if your thinking you can’t is the reason you can’t. We can talk ourselves into believing most anything.

My daughter who is 22 has never desired to do more than get on and ride behind me down the trail & across our fields. She likes to look around and just walk, trot and canter a bit now and again. Her current little mare ( of 7 years) does just that. I know she rides well enough to stay out of her mouth and stay on, she can turn and stop her and can ask her to move on with her legs. What more do you need?

If she can do it anyone can.

[Denali6298]

My situation is quite different but after a bad fall off my mare that resulted in two knee surguries I was scared of her. I was very timid on the ground and scared to ride her. I will admit for about a year I was over horsed. I have struggled with this because I have never had such a bad fall, nor was I a timid rider. All that being said I recently switched trainers and barns that are unrelated to my being timid in the saddle. All I told my new trainer was bad fall, still have mental road blocks, and my left leg is still catching up to my right in terms of use. (After my surguries I had to learn how to walk again.) I left it at that. In my most recent lesson she had me do stretchy trots letting my reins get long. Never ever would I do that on my own. She unknowingly got me through a hurdle. Nothing happened, maresy didn’t take off or do anything I could envision happening. I also discovered that our walk/trot dressage lessons get me thinking so much I forget to be scared.

My point after that long winded post, sorry about that, is for me dressage is good because I am thinking about what I am doing I forget to be scared., and minimal backround to my new trainer about being timid forces me through my mental blocks because she isn’t that focused on my comfort level with things like riding on the buckle.