Should this colt be gelded?

[The_Hobbit]

I’ve got a post on the Off Course forum explaining the situation, but the short version of it is that I’ve purchased my first upper level prospect: a 2 year old Dutch colt by For Compliment out of a Sandro Hit/Donnerhall/Pik Bube I mare. He was recently imported from Holland by Willy at DG Bar.

He’s insanely sensible and a super smart guy; he just sort of takes everything in around him and loves people and attention. That being said though, he thinks he’s King Kong when he’s near other horses; he’s not unmanageable or anything, just vocal and gets excited. I’m pretty sure that someone who has worked with stallions before would have no difficulty with teaching him how to behave properly but I’m not sure if I’m the right person for that.

I’ve got an appointment for him to be castrated on Monday morning but I’ve since had quite a few people question me on my choice. My thinking is that though I’ve ridden a few stallions and had no problems with them, I’ve never brought along my own stallion and as this horse was purchased for me to ride and take up the levels I’m not sure I want to mess with the stallion aspect on top of it. Additionally, there are many wonderful stallions to breed to and I’m not sure I really need to add another to the mix.

Just sort of curious what you all think. Am I crazy to geld him? Any general advice on working with stallions would also be appreciated, just for my own education.

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[Lynnwood]

I think just the fact that you are unsure about having a stallion is the answer to your question. Unless DG Bar personally asked you to keep him intact and offered to stand and handle him. Geld him.

[2tempe]

My opinion as a rider/not a breeder:

He’s lovely, but really what is lost by gelding him? The pro’s are that you have a more reliable horse to ride/train and develop. You have less worries in all respects - at shows, in turn out, shipping, etc etc. YOU will not have the hassle of collecting, freezing, shipping semen or marketing a stallion. Those are big deals.

The con’s of gelding - the only one that comes to mind is that SOMEONE ELSE will not be able to breed to him. So what? You hit the nail on the head - there are lots of nice stallions.

Do it!

A year or so ago, a US woman bought the most expensive stallion at the PSI auction in Germany. Mucho big $$. The first thing she did was have him snipped.

[goodpony]

If you are not 100 percent committed to raising a young stallion----I’d go ahead and keep your appointment–he will have a better life in many ways.

[mpsbarnmanager]

No opinion, but what a lovely boy!!! wipes drool off chin

[maybedog]

Collect. Freeze. Castrate.

[columbus]

He is two…his movement is a bit old fashioned and he is a bit cross bred with both jumper and dressage…he is a lovely colt and I certainly understand your feelings…he would be a lovely gelding and live a much happier life. Why not have him be happy…livin with the boys…easy to handle. Gelding in good. PatO

[Twisted_River]

[QUOTE=2tempe;6322333 He’s lovely, but really what is lost by gelding him? The pro’s are that you have a more reliable horse to ride/train and develop. You have less worries in all respects - at shows, in turn out, shipping, etc etc. YOU will not have the hassle of collecting, freezing, shipping semen or marketing a stallion. Those are big deals.

The con’s of gelding - the only one that comes to mind is that SOMEONE ELSE will not be able to breed to him. So what? You hit the nail on the head - there are lots of nice stallions.

Do it!

A year or so ago, a US woman bought the most expensive stallion at the PSI auction in Germany. Mucho big $$. The first thing she did was have him snipped.[/QUOTE]

Agree with it all! Owning and showing a breeding stallion is a lot of work. Just trailering to the show can be a challenge if you also want to show a mare, and the show is 6 hours away. Stabling can be a challenge as many places aren’t equipped to handle stallions. And how he’s acting at home now, is how he very well may act at the show. You will need to always have at least 1 extra person there who’s sole purpose is to hold him - not showing, not tacking other horses, not tacking or hosing him even - just holding him. And if he rears under saddle - you better not fall off! Stallions can not get loose at horse shows! And you certainly don’t want to be known as the trainer whose stud got loose and hurt a 10 year old kid riding her pony. You may have to scratch because he’s too worked up, and you don’t want to get a bad score on his record. A lot of well manages stallions win everything they enter, and scratch from everything they can’t win. Even down the road when he’s settled and used to the routine, he’ll still have bad days. I remember seeing a 4th level stallion absolutely loose his cool at one show on his way to the warm-up. 2 people had to hold him as he walked around screaming on his hind legs (erect, of course). They got him back to the barn, un-tacked, immediately onto the trailer, and left. I don’t know if they desperately needed to get a qualifying score that weekend or not, but it would be a sad end to the season if they had. I’ve also seen a less responsible trainer get kicked off the show grounds. Her stud was also prancing, screeming, rearing, flagging about, and she wanted to keep him at the show hoping he would calm down. It was a huge show with maybe 100 other horses there (and other stallions). The show officials were wise to kick them out. And the other horse she brought to show? Not gonna happen cause she had to drive her stud home.

I personally can think of 2 stallions that were sold to be someone’s upper level horse of a lifetime. 1 of them was already approved and collecting/breeding. He was bought and gelded. The other stallion was a 4 year old USEF National Young Horse Dressage Champion. Sold and gelded.

If you want an upper level show horse then geld him. If you want to own, manage and campaign a stallion then keep him intact. Two different priorities. Keeping him intact will have an impact on his show career. You may get lucky and it’s a small impact. Or he may turn out to be one of the cockier gents (no pun intended) and it’ll have a huge impact on his show career. You may get kicked out of every show you go to for the first year!

[Whitfield_Farm_Hanov]

If you’re not sure don’t do it right now. Wait & see how he progresses. See how his temperment is etc. Are you training with a good stallion handler? Stallions can be great to show & handle but you do always have to watch them & manage them differently.
That being said, take your time unless he’s dangerous & then you have your answer.

[Twisted_River]

There’s gonna be a lot of costs to bringing along a stallion that you may make back in stud fees.

• Membership, Registration and approval with at least 1 registry. Not a mandatory cost, but it will have an impact on the number of mares that breed to him.
• Having him trained to a phantom
• You need to pay a facility such as this to collect him, process, store, and ship the semen http://www.selectbreeders.com/
• Particularly for his first couple seasons, do you have quality mares to breed him to? You want to get some lovely babies on the ground to show that he is worth breeding to.
• Advertising!!! If you want people to breed to him, you have to get his name out there. You could spend thousands a year on advertising.

Of course, this stuff isn’t required to have a breeding stallion. He can do live cover and no registry with a mare or two every season. But why would you go through all the trouble to stable and show a stallion just for that?

[Derby_Lyn_Farms]

Beautiful colt! Just send him my way and I will figure it out

[stoicfish]

[QUOTE=maybedog;6322421]
Collect. Freeze. Castrate.:)[/QUOTE]

I think he is really lovely. And I like his pedigree also. But at the end of the day it is a ton of work and not worth it for most people unless they have mares or that is their main business. If you feel like he might be a horse that should pass on his genes, do as the above poster suggested. Cheaper than actually going through the whole process of getting approval. He might make his accreditation through sport. Think 5 breedings a year…but 24/7 stallion.

[RedMare01]

He is really lovely! That said, you know the saying, a good stallion makes a great gelding.

But if you’re not sure, no decisions need to be made today. You can always wait and see what happens later on in the year (and whether or not his hormones kick in).

[The_Hobbit]

Thank you all for all the input! As many of you noted or implied, stallion ownership is a lot of work and not for everyone. I think my primary focus needs to be on training the horse and riding rather than stallion management; at least at this stage in the game. Perhaps down the road, if I am successful with this guy, I might try bringing a stallion prospect along.

[ise]

I would cut him now and you won’t regret it. Owning a stallion is a huge responsibililty and if you are focused on performance it does pose more challenges. Additionally, the longer you wait to castrate - the higher the instances of problems when you do make that decision.

I absolutely don’t understand the person recommending collecting and freezing semen and then cutting him. Any foals produced by the semen would have a hard time getting papers. What’s the point?

Every wonderful colt makes an even more wonderful gelding!!

[Sabino_Farm]

It is always hard to geld a lovely prospect…we have the same mixed emotions every spring when we have to decide to geld our coming yearling colts. We leave them intact just long enough to give buyers a chance to snatch them up if they are looking for a stallion prospect. I have a lovely Dutch colt that is the best we have bred till now and did very well at his inspection, not to mention his bloodlines are stallion prospect bloodlines (strong mareline especially!)…scheduled to be gelded in a few weeks. Why not wait, stallions are a lot of work and the young ones especially create havoc until they go to a stallion handler. We are not set up for them and if no one has shown interest till now, the time has come. I see it as an investment in their lives to be happier and healthier because they can go out and be a normal horse. Turned out with friends and not lock away in a stall or paddock alone. Great stallions make even better geldings!!!

Also, There are a ton of great stallions out there already. I wouldn’t even look at a stallion that isn’t approved with a WB registry (for me it is KWPN), proven under saddle(PSG or above or at least heading that way) and proven as a sire(needs to have enough offspring on the ground to be able to judge what his strong traits are). That in itself is a huge task and requires a lot of money, time, luck, huge amounts of marketing, and mare owners buying your semen. Even some great stallions with strong resumes only get a few mares a year. The older they get, new popular stallions push them out and get the mares. Haha…just like in the wild! I don’t know how stallion owners even make money!!! Same with breeders I guess…LOL

I vote GELD and make him a happy, content-with-life partner for yourself! Good luck!

[mbm]

geld. you wont be sorry

[europa]

The question becomes why would you NOT geld him?

Unless you are interested in pursing the thoughts of raising and keeping him intact and promoting him then the answer is obvious.

His bloodlines are easily accessible for repeat so the well is not dry.

My question is why are you considering not gelding him? If it is purely sentimental then geld. I see this all the time with mare owners for non-pedigree horses …they just want to keep a piece of their heart horse even if the mare is not really genetic material I would breed.

Whoever said the longer you wait the more residual issues you may encounter is ABSOLUTELY true.

[stoicfish]

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;6322951]

I absolutely don’t understand the person recommending collecting and freezing semen and then cutting him. Any foals produced by the semen would have a hard time getting papers. What’s the point?

Every wonderful colt makes an even more wonderful gelding!![/QUOTE]

You can hold the frozen semen, do not have to use it right away. There are those cases where a stallion is approved thorough sport only. There is even those cases where people make a decision to geld a horse and he goes on to be a great competition horse, the approval would come though sport and the offspring could be registered. And they spend the money to clone.
Actually, if you think about it, approval through sport has much higher performance standards than the usual process. I can think of several owners that had the horse approved, froze the semen and then the horse went on to competition. If horses lived longer and people had deeper pockets, all stallions we use should have to compete to some degree. I do not buy the breeding animals do not have to compete. Theoretically it is true but it also allows well bred, good confirmation but not functional horses to have a ton of offspring. There are a ton of full siblings to stallions that are geldings. Pedigree is one thing, confirmation is another, but as the Zangersheide have emphasised, it is performance at the end of the day that is the goal.

[Home_Again_Farm]

This year I had a colt born that was bought by my trainer in utero. He fulfilled every one of my hopes as well as those of my trainer (and we are both very picky). She has had quite a few folks tell her that she needs to keep him entire. She told me that no way was she going to keep him a stallion. As she put it (and this is a person with extensive stallion experience), stallions have difficult lives, few stallions ever get many breedings, a good stallion makes a great gelding.

What would I do with your guy? I’d geld him and enjoy him.