The father of my horse was gelded. The owner found him to be so much easier to handle in that he concentrated on his job a lot more. He had an easier
life being a normal horse and it was easier all around. As a stallion he was a wonderful horse, but life was better afterwards.
but it is a very final decision unless you freeze some and bear the expense.
stoicfish - not sure where you are getting your information but I don’t know any WB registry that will approve a gelding for breeding just because someone has some of his frozen semen collected prior to the gelding process. Please specify where you are getting your information.
This colt is 2 years old - he cannot be presented for licensing until he is 3 years old. So that would be another year of being a stud colt and as I stated castrating has more issues as the horse gets older. Ask any Vet.
Additionally, she didn’t say where she kept this boy, but many boarding facilities won’t take stallions. And just because his demeanor is o.k. now - believe me that has a very high probability of changing as he matures. Friends went through this idea of keeping intact boys - commenting on how wonderful they were in their barn and around the boarders, etc. Well one hit 3 and that spring got what we call “balls for brains”, took the door off the stall, bit every other horse he could find, pawed siding off the outside of the barn at the windows of the stalls with other horses and raced around the property. Thank God there were no children there for lessons at the time. He was gelded but now has a bit more attitude so he was sold to a professional rider.
As breeders we now have access to more than enough top stallions representing all the best bloodlines. As long as the sire of this colt is out there he would have a tough time pulling breedings.
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;6323485]
stoicfish - not sure where you are getting your information but I don’t know any WB registry that will approve a gelding for breeding just because someone has some of his frozen semen collected prior to the gelding process. Please specify where you are getting your information.
This colt is 2 years old - he cannot be presented for licensing until he is 3 years old. So that would be another year of being a stud colt and as I stated castrating has more issues as the horse gets older. Ask any Vet.
Additionally, she didn’t say where she kept this boy, but many boarding facilities won’t take stallions. And just because his demeanor is o.k. now - believe me that has a very high probability of changing as he matures. Friends went through this idea of keeping intact boys - commenting on how wonderful they were in their barn and around the boarders, etc. Well one hit 3 and that spring got what we call “balls for brains”, took the door off the stall, bit every other horse he could find, pawed siding off the outside of the barn at the windows of the stalls with other horses and raced around the property. Thank God there were no children there for lessons at the time. He was gelded but now has a bit more attitude so he was sold to a professional rider.
As breeders we now have access to more than enough top stallions representing all the best bloodlines. As long as the sire of this colt is out there he would have a tough time pulling breedings.[/QUOTE]
ise@ssl- And I am not sure where you got the idea that I said “a WB registry that will approve a gelding for breeding just because someone has some of his frozen semen collected prior to the gelding process.”
I generally try to be polite so I will suggest that you re-read both of my posts and you will see in both posts that I said he may get his accreditation through sport.
Test Alternatives
In North America, there is also an alternative to the Stallion Performance Test. The stallion must accumulate the following show record:
•in dressage: receive a score of at least 63% five (5) times under different judges in FEI Prix St. Georges or higher tests at USEF, FEI or Equine Canada recognized shows, or
•in jumping: place in the top five (5) four (4) times at Level 7 or higher at USEF “A” rated shows or Equine Canada Class “1” shows, or
•in eventing: place three (3) times in the top 50 percent of finishers at a USEA/USEF Intermediate or higher Horse Trials
Stallions that achieve these performance results may be accepted into the Stallion Book – provided they have also passed AHS inspection.
-for example
And secondly, there is some cookie cutter dogma that is staple of COTH. One version is that anyone that comes on here and asks about keeping their stallion intact is usually given the same answer for the same reasons. Now generally if someone comes on here to ask, they are probably not ready to stand a stallion.
However, statements like “we have enough stallions” and if “we have the sire so the bloodlines are out there” are not the philosophies that created the breeding industry and the advancement we have seen over the years. The Europeans create many new stallions every year in hopes of progress. Only a few will go on and even less to really be an influence. At the end of the day it is sheer numbers , why they have better horses. They try all types of crosses to find the nicks and stallions that work and eat the rest. They try unknown and unlikely lines in hopes of a another Skakkato or Quaterback. And yes those horses are the needle in the haystack but from a statistical point of view, you need the attempts and failures to find the rest. Not all great sires were born with angles singing and a rainbow over the stables to denote their greatness. Many are proved later in sport, like Grannus and Voltaire. Some are late maturing lines, but most advance horses are older than 10yr, it is for sales that we want superstar 3 year olds.
If this individual wants to invest her own money in freezing the semen and waiting to see if the horse turns out to be the one in a thousand that turns out to be really good, why is that an issue? It is unlikely but so is every really good stallion before they have proven themselves.
You’ve answered the question yourself. See what I bolded.
I’ve handled, ridden, and shown plenty of stallions. I’m actually rather pro-stallion. But, I’m also sensitive to the OWNER.
I think you are being incredibly intelligent, thoughtful and SMART. Do NOT let anyone around you tell you what to do with YOUR horse. Pedigree alone, even temperament, does not dictate whether a horse gets to be a stallion. The top priority is what the owner wants with the horse. If they want a gelding, then let it be gelded. There are Plenty… and I do mean PLENTY of exquisitely pedigreed horses are who stallions. This one would hardly be missed.
If you had said you had deliberately had a horse imported with the specific purpose of developing a stallion candidate, preparing him for the 70-day test, and had proper facilities for said stallion, or alternatively that you were sending him to a stallion-developer here in North America, then I would have actually looked at the pics you provided and said, hmm, nice horse, keep him a stallion. Said person would know it takes gobs and gobs of money to promote and develop the stallion.
But you said none of those things. In fact, I stopped reading at the part that I bolded in your quote above - and I did not look at the pictures. Why? Because YOU stated you want and need a nice, well-bred, upper-level quality horse. Your words practically shouted “gelding” because you said, “I’m not sure if I’m the right person for that”. A gelding is easier to manage and generally, in most conditions, a happier, more contented horse. Even Olympic riders have ridden geldings in the Olympic games. A top level horse, exquisite pedigree, super-duper temperament, and still a gelding. A happy one at that.
A stallion is not for everyone - they take special management and a skill set the average rider/owner just does not have. Even the best handled stallions can get loose and then you need to be surrounded by people who know what to do to help you.
Stick to your guns (and your gut - always, always listen to your gut) and geld him if that’s what you want. Or, if you really think he should be a stallion and you don’t want the responsibility, then sell him to a stallion developer. And then, use the money to find yourself a fun, happy, lovely, young gelding who will take you places you have always dreamed to go. 
Well Stoic - you went on about stallions being able to have their Lifetime License requirement through Performance. And I am well aware of the Performance requirements - I’ve bred sporthorses for over 26 years and was on the Advisory Board of the OLDNA for over 10 years.
As far as new crosses in Europe - those breedings decision are based on significant consideration to the pedigrees and the performence and production results of those stallions and mares. Unfortunately in North America we have a rather patchwork system when it comes to reliable data for doing a statistical probability analysis (I am a Financial Analyst by profession). We do not, in most instances, even have a valid random sampling of data.
Europe also has 100’s of qualified riders/trainers who have worked with young stallions - we do not in North America. I would hope the OP would understand that there have been many a colt owner who thought they had the “one”, but without the right trainer and facility and $$$, taking that young colt through the process is impossible.
I own Popeye the GRP pony stallion who stands at Hilltop. I picked him up as a 2 1/2 year old from the breeder in Germany but left him there to train and do his stallion licensing and testing. I also had him collected there to make sure his semen was of the right quality, had it frozen and imported. He stands at Hilltop because they have excellent stallion facilities, marketing and training. Have we occasionally considered keeping one of our colts in tact - yes. But we know the costs and realities and opt to geld them. I’ve bred 33 colts and don’t regret gelding them.
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;6323762]
Well Stoic - you went on about stallions being able to have their Lifetime License requirement through Performance. And I am well aware of the Performance requirements - I’ve bred sporthorses for over 26 years and was on the Advisory Board of the OLDNA for over 10 years.
.[/QUOTE]
I didn’t go on… I answered your post that questioned me about “not sure where you are getting your information but I don’t know any WB registry that will approve a gelding for breeding just because someone has some of his frozen semen collected prior to the gelding process. Please specify where you are getting your information.”
This after I clearly stated about the possibility of the horse getting his approval through sport, twice. I think the correct response is “I didn’t really read your posts before I responed” not a personal resume. I know you own a stallion…didn’t make your statement to me (above) accurate.
We talk to people that come on here like they are all 12 yr olds. This person might be someone able to train this young horse to advance levels. We don’t know. I suggested freezing…and waiting to see.
To the OP- I also suggest going back to DG Bar and asking their opinion. They have the experience to give you some good advice. They are also familiar with the quality of your youngster and who you are, as most of the people on this board are not.
For me the biggest telling point/indicator is where this colt came from. He is from one of the premier young horse raiser/trainers/stallion raisers in the USA.
If this colt was a true stallion prospect - OP would have been told so by Willy Arts and would have been either 1)not for sale or 2)priced accordingly.
Geld and enjoy.
Thanks again guys for all the responses! I was 99% sure I was going to geld him but I just wanted to get a bit of feedback. I’m not against developing a stallion but I don’t think it’s the right time in my life or career. And, as many of you stated, geldings do tend to have simpler, happier lives.
For the record, I am not under any sort of delusions that I somehow have purchased the next Donnerhall/Weltmeyer/Quaterback etc. I’m of the firm opinion that there are plenty of awesome stallions out there and therefore really not a huge need for yet another ‘mid range’ sort. Obviously many people own nice but not world class stallions, and they sell some breedings and make a living, but that’s not the direction I want to go right now (really, having a stallion that’s less than world class isn’t worth the effort to me at the moment).
I did ask Willy what his thoughts were regarding keeping him a stallion (I think I actually said something more along the lines of “why does he still have balls!?”
) and he said that the mother line was really great but that I should talk to a mutual friend of ours about stallion ownership before deciding (basically so I could be fully prepared for all that it entails).
I posed the question of gelding him here as I wanted to make sure that my decision to geld him wasn’t totally foolish and that I’d really sorted it out. 
Pretty sure I have now. lol
I’m going to go ahead with his appointment on Monday as I don’t want to wait and risk him developing any negative behavioral issues or secondary sex characteristics.
Thanks again!
Ravel was gelded after import and has had a very nice show career. Probably better than he would have had as a stallion.
Nice colt! I don’t have any advice to offer you but to those of you who said his bloodlines are easily accessible, they aren’t. For Compliment is turning out to be super producer and there is no semen anywhere to be had from this stallion.
Just have to add: I looked at your webpage and deduct that you are too busy, and too funny, to have time to campaign a stallion. Unless you have a very, very rich uncle.
[QUOTE=The Hobbit;6324064]
…as many of you stated, geldings do tend to have simpler, happier lives…
I’m of the firm opinion that there are plenty of awesome stallions out there and therefore really not a huge need for yet another ‘mid range’ sort. Obviously many people own nice but not world class stallions, and they sell some breedings and make a living, but that’s not the direction I want to go right now (really, having a stallion that’s less than world class isn’t worth the effort to me at the moment)…
I posed the question of gelding him here as I wanted to make sure that my decision to geld him wasn’t totally foolish and that I’d really sorted it out. Pretty sure I have now. lol
I’m going to go ahead with his appointment on Monday as I don’t want to wait and risk him developing any negative behavioral issues or secondary sex characteristics. [/QUOTE]
You come across as a smart, level-headed person :yes: Your guy is lovely, best of luck with him!
[QUOTE=The Hobbit;6322304]
Just sort of curious what you all think. Am I crazy to geld him? Any general advice on working with stallions would also be appreciated, just for my own education.
Pictures:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.679164985941.2101352.18000284&type=1&l=cc5a771314
Crappy Vido Clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB9Mn6QXbuM[/QUOTE]
Well I have to say he looks like a super cute guy! And when I went to check out the photos I was like gosh that looks like Morgane … and then realized that yes it was lol, doubt if you will remember me or not, we all used to show out at Silver Sands, Amber Ezell.
Congrats on your new purchase, I’ve come across several Fidermark bred horses at the barn I work at and they have all had the best work ethic, really super minded horses!
The simple answer is “A good stallion will make a GREAT gelding!” :yes:
colt gelded?
[QUOTE=maybedog;6322421]
Collect. Freeze. Castrate.:)[/QUOTE]
This! He’s lovely.
colt gelded/
One can freeze for oneself without regard to registration as a form of insurance.
Who needs a stallion, LOL (me?!). As pointed out above, he’ll be happier as a gelding. I had two stallions, still have one, and they are high maintenance.
Anna
If Willy Arts thought he was a stallion candidate - I have to believe he would have sold him as such or kept him.
100% Agree with ISE.
The reason he was still a colt - is that all colts (or 90%) are raised up in Germany and Holland in bachelor herds. They don’t make gelding selections until into the 2nd year. This colt, I am sure was raised up in one of these herds - its the way they do things there.
I would be willing to bet - it was decided in Holland not to move forward with him as a stallion candidate this spring and thus sold to the USA just before he turned 2 - so he could avoid stallion quarantine. Just because he is a 2yo colt coming from europe had no bearing on his viability as a stallion candidate. Actually - that he was sold and imported and then able to be resold for a reasonable price (since the import to CA is 10K alone) - means it most likely has been determined that he was NOT a stallion candidate and better suited as a riding horse candidate.
I am sure you will have lots of fun raising and training him as a gelding - and it certainly will make his life easier!
[QUOTE=Twisted River;6322515]
Agree with it all! Owning and showing a breeding stallion is a lot of work. Just trailering to the show can be a challenge if you also want to show a mare, and the show is 6 hours away. Stabling can be a challenge as many places aren’t equipped to handle stallions. And how he’s acting at home now, is how he very well may act at the show. You will need to always have at least 1 extra person there who’s sole purpose is to hold him - not showing, not tacking other horses, not tacking or hosing him even - just holding him. And if he rears under saddle - you better not fall off! Stallions can not get loose at horse shows! And you certainly don’t want to be known as the trainer whose stud got loose and hurt a 10 year old kid riding her pony. You may have to scratch because he’s too worked up, and you don’t want to get a bad score on his record. A lot of well manages stallions win everything they enter, and scratch from everything they can’t win. Even down the road when he’s settled and used to the routine, he’ll still have bad days. I remember seeing a 4th level stallion absolutely loose his cool at one show on his way to the warm-up. 2 people had to hold him as he walked around screaming on his hind legs (erect, of course). They got him back to the barn, un-tacked, immediately onto the trailer, and left. I don’t know if they desperately needed to get a qualifying score that weekend or not, but it would be a sad end to the season if they had. I’ve also seen a less responsible trainer get kicked off the show grounds. Her stud was also prancing, screeming, rearing, flagging about, and she wanted to keep him at the show hoping he would calm down. It was a huge show with maybe 100 other horses there (and other stallions). The show officials were wise to kick them out. And the other horse she brought to show? Not gonna happen cause she had to drive her stud home.
I personally can think of 2 stallions that were sold to be someone’s upper level horse of a lifetime. 1 of them was already approved and collecting/breeding. He was bought and gelded. The other stallion was a 4 year old USEF National Young Horse Dressage Champion. Sold and gelded.
If you want an upper level show horse then geld him. If you want to own, manage and campaign a stallion then keep him intact. Two different priorities. Keeping him intact will have an impact on his show career. You may get lucky and it’s a small impact. Or he may turn out to be one of the cockier gents (no pun intended) and it’ll have a huge impact on his show career. You may get kicked out of every show you go to for the first year![/QUOTE]
Once upon a time I was riding my mare at Foxcroft and we got mounted by a stallion.
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