Show goals, jumping height ramble

[onlyTBmares]

Sorry this is a novel and a half!!
A year and a half ago I bought a school master (see some other posts) to help me jump bigger. He is everything I hoped for and more. Last summer we had some success in the 1.0m ring, not winning a bunch but clear rounds that made me feel good and had fun which is my only goal. We attempted a move up, got eliminated at the in and out, but felt pretty proud I tried. Funds limit us to a couple of schooling shows, one rated, and a couple of clinics. I planned to do two rates shows this summer and a few more schooling shows with hopes of making it to the 1.10m by the end of the season. Well last schooling show (a couple of months ago) we had a stop/elimination at the 0.90s. It was an in and out. Now I’m going over my year in my head, and realizing I haven’t jumped a course at that height since probably August. We’ve only schooled the in and out at height once. We have a smaller indoor but enough to do a small course at 1.0m. I jump 2x a week, but as a busy adult sometimes I miss one, and often the barn is so busy that my jump lesson is only a few jumps (4-8 total). We are an extremely busy barn with a lesson program in addition to the full training program that I’m part of. Rarely do jumps exceed 2’6”. So it’s not uncommon that I go weeks where I’ve only jumped a handful of fences total and go a month or two or three without jumping a single jump at 1.0m height. I talked to my trainer about it and she thinks that we need to save his legs (he’s 17). My trainer does travel quite a bit, she does a few more shows than I do but also does 5-8 weeks of vacation a year because she’s technically retired. The assistants cover but we’re limited to 2’ and under when she’s gone. I’m starting to feel like I don’t jump enough to be showing at that height. We don’t have anyone showing higher other than my trainer and a couple at my height so thats part of it.
He’s still pretty game, he’s real fit, I know I can’t jump his legs off, but I’m not feeling confident to go show and the reality is he is running out of time whether I jump him or not. There is no more money for another horse. I’m feeling a bit at a loss. Last summer we jumped 3x a week and I know he’s a year older but I’m not sure that’s too much for him still at this age. I had high hopes of trying to dabble in the 1.10m before he needs to step down but I’ve kinda lost hope on that. I understand this is a tough balance, for me to learn as much as I can I would jump every day. He is very experienced and could literally never jump except at a show and make it around. We need to find a balance that keeps him sound but helps me learn and be confident.

To me I think I have three options:

1. Deal with it, do the 1.0m, feel a little unconfident in the ring and grab mane. He’s a good boy, he takes care of me. 1.0m is pretty easy for him
2. Stop showing and just enjoy the ride. I learn and have fun which is really all I can ask. I could be ok with this although I was hoping to get a couple more seasons out of him. Again, there is no plan B. This is it.
3. Show at the 0.80s/0.90m where things are pretty easy for both of us (I have no interest in this but it is an option)
4. Try to “demand” we jump more at home, I think I could probably force it but I’m not sure that’s what I want out of my barn/trainer relationship. There is also the issue that my trainer is gone so much.
5. Find a different program that matches my goals better. I love my barn mates, the community is amazing, my trainer has been excellent in getting us here, but this is also an option.

Ok wise women (and men!) of COTH, what thoughts/advice do you have for me?

[fivestrideline]

@onlyTBmares

Find a different program that matches my goals better. I love my barn mates, the community is amazing, my trainer has been excellent in getting us here, but this is also an option.

This was my first instinct.

Outgrowing a program happens all the time, and it’s no one’s fault and doesn’t need to include hurt feelings! I do not think you will progress in this situation, and not because you need to jump “more”.

Here’s the thing: you likely would benefit from 1x/week at 1.0 practicing things to make the in and out easy, NOT just popping over a couple lines while skirting the walk/trot lessons.

Just “holding on” at 1.0m is not going to teach you anything, and likely to continue to chip away at your confidence. It’s doing everything you were trying to avoid by buying a schoolmaster. I’d suggest that if you’re committed to THIS program, you need to step down to the 2’6" and stay there. If you really want to move up (and your horse is sound for it), you need to go somewhere that has other riders doing what you want - and a reputation for doing it well with sound horses.

[Chestnut24]

Hmm, here‘s what I would consider…

It sounds like you‘d like to jump more and the potential is there with your horse. Being in a different program, where it is ‚normal‘ to jump more and higher can make a world of difference, I tell you from experience. Have you researched in your area, do you have any barns in mind that would fit, also in terms of accessibility and finances?

I would encourage you to pursue your goals while you can, but if possible to maintain a good relationship with your current barn, since it sounds like you and your horse are otherwise happy there. Maybe a more jumper oriented barn could be a solution for a while, with a view to shift to quieter surroundings when your horse slows down a bit.

[fourfillies]

I think it comes down to how ambitious you are and how realistic those ambitions are. In my busy working a real job AA life those are different. I’d love to get back to the AOs (hunters) but I’m lucky to ride twice a week and lesson twice a month. There is no way I’d confidently canter up to a 2 stride in and out at an horse show unless I find the saddle and lesson time to be doing it at home. My guy is also quite capable and experienced. But if I’m nervous I slow down and that’s going to be a problem, especially to combinations. Regardless of your decisions enjoy your gem of a horse.

[Night_Flight]

Once you have more experience, backing off the jump height at home to save the horse’s legs can be beneficial and still allow you to work on gymnastics and technicality without adding height.

If you’re trying to move up and nervous about height, however, you’ll never get comfortable if you’re just jumping 2’ to 2’6" at home. The jumps at shows will always feel more intimidating, so if anything you should be regularly jumping all the elements of the course a hole higher at home so that the show jumps feel comfortable.

I also vote for finding a new program (assuming your horse really is sound and comfortable schooling at 1.0m more consistently), since you did raise the issue with your trainer and were just told that’s how it is.

[Irene2022]

It sounds to me like the jumping you do at home regardless of the height does not set you up to take on the more technical challenges of a jumper course at a show. I once rode at a primarily 2’6 adult hunter barn where they refused to change the courses or amp up my lessons as they wanted to accommodate their primary clientele (they were also lazy but that’s besides the point) and it didn’t set me up at the shows because I hadn’t been practicing what I needed. I ended up moving barns to a place where I could set technical exercises instead of just single fences and hunter lines set to spec. I would start with a conversation with your trainers but be prepared to move, IF (!) this is more important than the already great things you enjoy about your barn, which quite frankly are hard to find sometimes. There’s no point in showing bigger a couple of weekends out of the year if the rest of it isn’t fun.

Now when it comes to jumping big at home. I agree to not jump horses legs off but it’s also not fair to them to not be prepared for what you want to do at a show. So you have to find the balance of what’s appropriate for your horse and what you’re goals are. Sometimes you have to make a hard goals decisions for the welfare of the horse and be happier with jumping lower because you know you’re doing it for your horse. Plus there is absolutely nothing wrong with jumping lower. This is a hard sport and there is, to me, more pride in being able to master a lower level than bombing around a bigger course just to say we could jump bigger.

I think right now it’s more important that you focus on the technical aspects of the course (like combinations) and get that sorted before you address the height. Nothing changes when the jumps get bigger, except you have to do everything more precisely and be braver. But the concepts behind pace, straightness, track, distances, etc. all stay the same. My weekly training schedule usually consist of doing technical exercises at a pole/cavaletti/2’6 height and one lower course jump school to put pieces together. And then the week before a show I’ll jump a course that’s higher than my height at the show so I’m not nervous.

Good luck!

[cayuse]

Well since your horse is a bit older and that’s something to consider, I’d pick option #3 and enjoy the moment. Many times I have chased show goals only to find in hindsight that I wish I had taken the time just to be happy in a particular moment in time.

[Flyaways]

I’ve been there … at exactly the same height, and a few shows a year. I know how you feel about the prospect of being stuck at the .80s/.90s.

I changed trainers and that has made a huge difference for the better. I was super nervous to approach my previous trainer about leaving but she was supportive - it was just time for me to move on to a new program that better fit my goals (and she recommended some trainers). I’ve been able to stay in touch with/on good terms with folks from the old barn as well.
Still not to the 1.10s but feeling much more confident at 1.0m/1.05m. A lot of it is the quality of the canter which you can work on without jumps, and a lot of practice with small jumps as well. But you have to jump some bigger fences at home to have that confidence going into the show ring. And it’s made even harder when you can’t show super often because then (at least for me) there’s a lot of pressure to do well and make the few times I get to show successful.

Anyways, hope you can find a situation that is better for you!

[LazyA1]

If your trainers first interest is in you not breaking your horse, you should listen to them.

[Gardenhorse]

I would go with #5. What is the point of having a schoolmaster if the program you are in doesn’t actually let him teach you what you are trying to learn? I also think it’s unsafe to go out and show at a height that you are not regularly practicing at home and question your trainer’s thought process on this. Yes, you should not be over jumping him (and jumping 3x/week, even at low levels seems like a lot) but if he does not have any soundness issues, a 1.0 m course once a week shouldn’t be too much.

[Farosh]

Idk I mean I’m a trainer so I’m always gonna be biased towards trainers but to me it sounds like you were doing well on an older horse, tried to move up, you messed up and gave it a scare, and are now struggling at lower levels then you previously did always at the same obstacle, the in and outs. It’s a tale as old as time.

Often, but not always, as horses age they struggle a little more with making the strides. Especially in in and outs where there’s less room for error. Older horses tend to land closer to the jumps and have a shorter stride so 1 strides can be especially difficult. Especially if you’re pushing it in the height department. Again not for all of them obviously but for most in my experience.

Maybe you are jumping less and jumping lower to get your horses confidence back or maybe he’s older and realizing he can’t save those mistakes anymore. You said you were doing the 1.0m and now you’re not making it around the .90ms, so sounds like trainer is jumping you slightly lower then that to build confidence. If this horse is a school master I’m assuming (perhaps incorrectly) you bought it from the program you’re currently in and the trainer has known your horse longer than you have. So they probably recognize the changes in their behavior and stride better than you do. And as you said you were previously very successful in the 1.0m having clear rounds.

Maybe if you go somewhere where some Grand Prix rider will school your horse to death and power through it you’ll get through your 1.10m class once or twice, but in my experience those people will actually crash and burn your horse out and tell you to buy another one.

The thing is, if you’re riding an older horse who knows their job, they usually tell you when they can’t anymore. For some horses that’s at age 15 and some it’s at age 25. It just depends. If you don’t have money for another horse, just focus on fixing your mistakes of the in and out at height where you and most importantly your horse are comfortable and enjoy it.

That’s my opinion anyway but obviously I don’t know you or your horse at all so I could be wrong

[kenyarider]

I am not a trainer but I agree with Farosh. I have found that as I get older, I struggle with my “ego” about constantly going upwards in life. Higher, quicker, richer etc. It’s taken me a while to realize that it’s all in my mind. Being competitive doesn’t mean impressive 20 year olds. That’s impossible unless you are one. So I am working on being happy with where my horse and I are at, at this time and in this place. It’s harder than I ever imagined, but as I focus on the horse, and doing the riding as close to perfect as I can, the “ego” issue is becoming less paramount. Just my thoughts, it’s your life, live it as it best makes you happy.

[Angela_Freda]

@onlyTBmares

We need to find a balance that keeps him sound but helps me learn and be confident.

Sounds like your horse doesn’t need the practice as much as you do. Practice on a different horse, so you develop your skill and spare his legs.

But re height… I audited several clinics with the Maddens and they always insisted on the idea that you don’t need to jump height to practice.

[fivestrideline]

@Angela_Freda

But re height… I audited several clinics with the Maddens and they always insisted on the idea that you don’t need to jump height to practice.

I agree that you can hone the skills at a lower height, but it sounds like OP no longer fits the program. They said that they jump once or twice a week but “the barn is so busy my jump lessons are usually 4-8 jumps total”. That doesn’t sound like targeted practice of skills to succeed, no matter what height the jumps are. That’s hopping over two lines to count it as a “jump” lesson. They also only jumped the in-and-out at show height once. That’s not setting OP up for success.

OP said it’s their trainer and a couple others that show at the height, and that their trainer is gone to far more shows than OP can attend. This makes sense - it’s typical for a horse that’s regularly showing to only be asked to jump small at home if at all, since horse and rider get practice at their division height at the shows. OP only does a couple of shows a year, and the program doesn’t seem to accommodate this with skilled assistant trainers at home.

Now, this is assuming OP talked to their trainer and the trainer’s answer wasn’t “you need to be able to do XYZ at 2’ before jumping higher” it was as OP said - “that’s not how we do things here”. And trainer still lets OP show 1.0 or .90… red flag right there.

OP needs to decide if they are happy to show lower because they cannot get their experience and practice on the road, or if they want to seek a program that will allow them to build those skills at home and make those one or two shows a year worth it. Assuming (again) that if the horse is no longer capable, the new reputable program would TELL them that.

[Angela_Freda]

@fivestrideline

Now, this is assuming OP talked to their trainer and the trainer’s answer wasn’t “you need to be able to do XYZ at 2’ before jumping higher”

@fivestrideline

Assuming (again) that if the horse is no longer capable, the new reputable program would TELL them that.

Exactly
Or the trainer is limiting jumping height to preserve the horse.

That would, with a safe horse like this, be my priority, to preserve his soundness.
The issues with the in and out may be the riders… Or be the horse saying they are uncomfortable.

If there other horses to ride to get the rider sharper at the 1.0 height so they can then show their schoolmaster, I’d be looking at that.
.

[Aussie_2020]

I remember two guys at our barn that left because they felt they needed to jump more. The program the trainer had was all flatwork one day, and flatwork, low jumps and cavaletti the second day. In between lesson days you were encouraged to do flatwork in the arena or on the 1/4 mile track, or go trail riding.

She and any clinician that came to the barn were very strong on flatwork, flatwork, flatwork. Once or twice a month the fences would go up to whatever height that class was jumping at shows.

There was another thread where a rider simply put the jumps up so they could get used to seeing them at that height as they rode around them. It sounded very interesting.

I’m not a trainer, I’ve always been a lower level rider but, cavaletti and learning to adjust the stride without losing the quality was the most important lesson for me.

[fivestrideline]

@Aussie_2020

There was another thread where a rider simply put the jumps up so they could get used to seeing them at that height as they rode around them. It sounded very interesting.

This totally helps!

One thing I’ll also point out is the difference in ride and feel over 2’6" vs 3’+ is quite large. 1.0-1.10 is where courses get tougher and horses start actually jumping vs just cantering over. This can be disconcerting for a rider who hasn’t gotten used to it yet, plus the fill at shows making things look bigger, plus show nerves. All of it together makes it really tough for your average person to have a successful experience when they don’t have miles at the level already.

I don’t think a second ride at this program is the answer for OP, though extra saddle time is always a great idea. If the core of the issue is confidence at X height but the program doesn’t allow jumping at that height in a productive way, I don’t see how another ride is the best use of time and money for the goal at hand.

[Peggy]

A couple of things. This comes from the perspective of an older amateur showing in the 1-1.05m division on a 14-y.o. horse and with nearly zero desire to move up. We don’t jump a ton at home, or generally at height, but I show more than the OP and have previous experience (in what admittedly seems like a lifetime ago) showing at this height.

You don’t generally learn calculus from the same person that taught you addition. And probably not algebra from either of those people. In other words, the instructor/instruction that is appropriate for one level may or may not be appropriate for another. So if you want to be competitive at 1-m or 1.1-m it may involve a change of program. But the new program needs to understand that your primary goal is keeping this horse sound and happy as it’s a “one and done.” Depending on your options, looking around for something that has clients mounted on happy schoolmasters would be a good start. But nobody says that you need to move up if doing so involves changes that you don’t want to make.

Trouble with combinations can be a sign of horse discomfort. Might be worth having good sport horse vet look over the horse, see what (if anything) they find, and what they recommend to help the horse. We may not even be talking joint injections here, but something to take down the general inflammation.

A trainer that I know requires riders to win a certain number (3? 5?) of classes within 12 months or less at one height before moving up to the next level. This provides an impartial judgement when the overly-ambitious mom wants her kid to do the 1.2-m when she hasn’t gone double clear at 1.1 m.

The odds of finding a practice horse for lessons at 1-1.1 m are not great, at least in my part of the world. I know of situations where they might let someone lesson on a more advanced horse that’s owned by one of the trainers, especially at a higher rate than a normal lesson, but that isn’t always possible.

[paw]

You need to be schooling at the height (preferably more than the height) before you show. Not necessarily for the horse, if he’s experienced, but for you. The fences you see in the show ring should not look big to you.

There’s certainly a lot that can be done over poles or very small fences (and it seems that you’re not riding the in and outs correctly), but you do need to jump every once and awhile at show height to make sure you’re confident. If your current program can’t accomodate this, you need to make a hard choice.

[Libby2563]

This is way outside the box and not really an ongoing solution, but might a riding vacation where you get to jump higher on safe horses help? It could boost your confidence and help your eye adjust to the height. A few years ago when I had just gotten into eventing after decades in dressage land, my friend and I did 5 days of XC jumping and foxhunting in Ireland. We popped over a lot of 3’+ fences that would have intimidated me at home, but knowing the horses did them all the time, I just went with it. That confidence did carry forward to riding at home. Just for fun: