County Fair venue.
So not operating according to Rules for a rated show.
In this area 99.9% are riding QH, so judges tend to be QH judges.
To my understanding, a Breed judge should still be able to recognize & rate different breeds according to each breed standard & place classes of mixed breeds accordingly.
But that is not the main source of my post, though I think it might affect the gist.
Here’s what happened:
Pleasure Driving Championship class.
5 entries announced, only 3 enter when called.
Announcer makes several calls for the missing entries.
No response (i.e. call for tack change, request to hold the gate…) & gate is closed, those on the rail are judged. Quickly, but long enough so a Reverse is requested, then the lineup.
Then the missing 2 entries arrive at the closed gate.
WHICH IS OPENED FOR THEM
Announcer says it will be judged as a split class.
Now I put myself in the Judge’s place:
I might allow this, but I would not place the tardy 2. I would let them know why they were not being placed.
Nope, late entry wins the class.
Granted, this is a county Fair, but why reward this disrespect?
Thoughts, O, Wisdom of COTH.
Not fair at all. A driving class with just 2 entries is a lot easier to navigate than one with 5 and the latecomers probably knew that. I’ve been through this in halter classes where someone shows up after the class is just about finished and the judge is on the last horse. Usually it’s an antsy horse that won’t stand so the reason is pretty obvious. Always irritates me.
Also been in a halter class where the horse jogged lame (not just one bob, lame the entire jog) and the judge gave them a do-over and placed them first. It was obvious the judge saw the lameness as he told them to “try again and see if he works out of it”. Sometimes “you just can’t win” 
That is just wrong. Sure, like you said, it is a county fair. But so wrong. I too would be annoyed. How disrespectful to everyone involved and then to give them first?
Judging can be so very subjective 
Day before (different judge) Mini Halter classes seemed to be rewarding kids showing otherwise unremarkable minis.
Friend is The Halter King & presents his minis beautifully. They GLOW & stand correctly.
His gelding came 4th to a grossly overweight & poorly conformed 3rd, a 2nd aged & showing ribs & a nondescript winner.
First 2 were shown by little kids 
His mare got 2nd to another shown by a kid.
Stud won, but was the only entry.
He did get Champion & Reserve for the Stud & mare respectively.
When he politely & correctly (after all the mini divisions had been judged) asked judge why the gelding had not done better, he was told he needed to put weight on him.
Uh, yeah… But you placed a visibly underweight gelding 2nd 
Report the judge. The people who certify judges (AQHA and others) take complaints seriously… find out the judges name, what cards he or she has and write down what u wrote here. Is there a rule book? Does it have a rule about allowing competitors in one the gate is closed? If so make a copy and include it. I have been a judge and hired judges. Complaints are heard and recorded.
Understood.
But this Fair - although one of the States largest - has been going downhill in the horse show area for years.
When I first started going, the Draft Show had 9 6H hitches of varying breeds.
That has degenerated into almost exclusively Belgians. This year only 2 6s are entered.
Granted, dates are between 2 of the Classic Series, so some hitches may not want to waste the time & $$.
But, I was also told other local shows pay the larger hitches to attend. This Fair does not.
Stalls used to be N/C for Drafts, now they’re a minimal fee. Nickel & Dime & they stay away.
The Society All Breed has been renamed All Breed Classic & rightfully s/b The All QH 
My Driving friends are also QH people (though they don’t drive this breed) & though they agreed that class was a joke, none of them seemed interested in pursuing it.
Fair Board may be scraping the barrel for judges.
I look at Fair for what it is - cash payback & a corndog - but it’s disappointing to see Rules discarded.
If you know, it cheapens any win.
Our Fairs sound very similar. They have gotten way more relaxed with the rules over the years because participation is down, and they are trying to give everyone “the benefit of the doubt” and not a bad experience. It is frustrating for the people who are organized and want to play by the rules.
As far as your hitches, my good friend shows a 6 horse hitch, and I worked helping her last year at our fair, 6:30am until 5:30 pm, three days in a row, and I thought I was going to die. I was never so glad to come home and hug my LITTLE Arab!
Grooming, braiding, hitching, cleaning the giant harness and carts/carriages…Heading the horses when they are hot, bored, and the flies are biting you and them. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the people who still do it, but I can certainly see why it is in decline. It takes a literal team of helpers to do it all and keep your drivers clean-ish.
That says nothing of feeding for and caring for a herd of drafts when your not showing.
Agree judging can be subjective. So many examples from 30 plus years with kids and grandkid in 4H. Grandkid did a perfect Ranch Horse trail and was pinned 2nd b/c judge said horse stopped on wrong side of cone. Had video horse was on correct side, judge looked at it and shrugged. Class was pinned, next class was coming in the ring… our lovely driving horse --full Percheron-- often got second in driving classes as he was not exactly Country Pleasure. But as THAT was the only driving class offered in 4-h, he would enter and do his flawless performance… he was especially smart doing. “Road gait.” 4h is 4h – kids did their best, understood that winning doesn’t always mean a blue ribbon. Don’t get me started on 4-H dog club…,I heard only sheep club was worse… really baaaad (sorry, couldn’t resist.)
There’s actually a pretty large contingent of 6s & even 8s competing here & neighboring states.
Classic 6 Finals drew 15 entries last year & the 8s (who stop at our State Fair) had a dozen entries from all over the US & Canada in the Belgian & Percheron series.
I see the Nation it takes to put those teams together & give them Respect!
Sponsors are Big Names:
Young Living Essential Oils
Burger Barn
White Sox Ricketts owns Jackson Fork
But the Drivers & grooms do the Work.
@LSMarnell Same here, after watching the 8s prep & show, my mini gets a lot of Love 
Our County Fair only allows 4-H kids to show, but when I did show, I remember VERY well the judge biases . . . I was told once by the judge that she didn’t place my Arabian mare because she wasn’t a QH. This was in a hunt seat eq class. Who CARES what the horse is, as long as it’s not a stick horse?! I told her in no uncertain terms that since it was an eq class, she was supposed to be judging the riders, not the horses, and did she realize that? (Guess who didn’t place for the rest of the day . . .)
At our District show (the qualifier for State), we had a judge that before this day, everyone loved. He was known to be fair, knowledgeable, and unflappable. Most of us had shown under him several times in KSHA (KS Saddle Horse Assoc). But for whatever reason, at this show, he would not place anyone not riding a QH. The classes were overcrowded (in an indoor arena, we had 40+ horses in a Western Pleasure class). A lot of people left early because of the unsafe conditions. My mare was kicked in the head in a crowded class because we couldn’t space ourselves out, and the kicker wasn’t wearing a ribbon. We could have ridden in the HUGE outdoor arena instead, but no . . . we could have split the classes, but no . . . judge and management decided to that unsafe was okay.
I do not miss showing in the slightest.
ETA: I used to manage shows and showed in different associations, and the rule was hard and fast: once the gate closed, it closed. No one could get in late, no matter the reason. I think the management was completely in the wrong for allowing that to happen. Once the bell rings in dressage, you have 1 minute to enter at A. Once the gate closes for a flat class, it’s shut until the class is over.
I used to judge fairs and local shows. Before that I competed in fairs and local shows.
If I can say anything, it’s there is no overarching standard for how unrecognized shows are conducted and judged.
Honestly, I think the judge in this situation handled it pretty fairly. It’s unfortunate one of the tardy entries won, but on the other hand, I assume the best combo won the class. I don’t know why they were tardy; there may have been a good reason out of their control (or maybe not). It sounds like they made it before the class was over.
It sounds like it was a management decision to allow the late entrants in and judges judge what management puts in front of them. Maybe they were better then the other three. Judges who want to work more don’t argue with management decisions on something like late entrants and maybe there was a reason the gate was held for them.
These non rated Open classes are not like Best in Show at Dog shows. There is no requirement for judges to be experts in every breed, only to judge the performance of the entrant.
Nope.
Gate closing was announced 3X, with a couple minutes between.
No one asked for the gate to be held, no reason like tack change provided.
The 3 timely entries were being asked to line up when the latecomers arrived at the gate.
So, in effect, the class was over.
Judge was likely already placing the 3.
I’m sure politics had them allow the last 2 in & “split” the class of 5, where other, much larger (20+) classes had not been split.
The post with the kids winning reminds me of a time my husband and I entered a horse packing contest. We had to pack our horses, ride a trail around the fairgrounds with judges asking us questions and judging on how we handled situations, crossed a creek, climbed a hill, and at the end we had to set up a camp as if we were out in the backcountry. Our horses performed flawlessly and we were doing well. A couple of the contestants were the children of a popular couple and they had a heck of a time, couldn’t handle their horses, barely had any steering, almost lost a load on their pack horse, had help setting up their camp, etc. Guess who won? But they’re so cute, we don’t want to disappoint them!
How do you know if the show manager told the gate man to admit them and the judge to work around their late arrival? Announcers often have no idea what managers ask gate crews and judges to do, especially in non rated shows where, really, anything goes. Including conflict of interest or favoritism towards some entrants. There’s no recourse for those not favored.
we had horses for our kids, they showed them …they learned how to deal with Life in a controlled environment as there were judges in our breed who liked a different style of the breed then our horses.
The kids started recording the whims of the judges, then refused to show under certain judges
We used Horse World to teach our kids, Life can be very unfair at times… they learned how to recover and continue … all are very successful in their careers
(youngest daughter was seeking a national championship which she came in as reserve …the winner was showing in competitions judged by her family members. My daughter was upset. We checked the rule book, there was nothing that prevented the other girl from being judged by a family member. So I helped her write a proposed rule change, then she worked it through the proper channels to get the proposed rule change presented to the national board which voted on the change, enacting the rule change as proposed. Those that knew my daughter call the rule Aimee’s Rule… the rule change would not allow points to be awarded to those being judged by a close family member with definitions of what close meant)
Announcer & Show Mgr sit together in a small building aka Show Office, located ringside…
I don’t know who made the decision to let the very late entries in, but at any show a closed gate is a closed gate.
Just another Note to remember this Fair is noway, nohow run by standard Rules.
I have seen a closed gate not be a closed gate at unrated shows. A thousand things could have happened that made someone allow them in - everything from pulling a favor to a legitimate tack/traveling/stuck behind the ferris wheel line incident.
I remember going to a horse trials (I believe it was recognized, if memory serves) and I ended up being 45 min later than anticipated. I trotted my horse over essentially just in time to go into the arena without warm up at all but the ring steward said someone else was ready to go so I could have a 5 min warm up. I didn’t even ask, the steward offered.
When I got to the ring, the judge was a bit terse in asking why I was out of order so I told her what happened and she just said OK to it - I got a dressage score and completed the horse trials (I don’t remember what I placed).
So while yeah, it may not have looked good, I am not going to make a judgement call on appropriateness without knowing a whole lot more information.
When I was judging a lot, I judged several county fair shows (Los Angeles and Ventura) plus some bigger Calif. 4H shows. They were all open shows, so while my background was USEF rules for English classes, I had to rely on a Cliff’s Notes version of standards for judging the variety of breeds I knew I’d encounter. For instance, in a western pleasure class an Arabian is not going to go like a QH, who’s not going to go like a flat shod Tennessee Walker, who’s not going to go like a Haflinger. Yet they might all be lovely, well trained horses that are enjoyable to ride for pleasure in western tack. Some classes are a mixed kettle of fish like that, and you do the best you can, as honestly as you can.
In the case of the driving class mentioned, it sounds like there was some kind of fustercluck that occurred, compelling management to allow them late entry into the class. The only way to include them was to “split the class.” The judge probably had nothing to do with that decision, and may have been as taken aback, confused or frustrated as the OP. Yet if management says to judge them, you judge them against the performances of the other exhibitors in the class.
So yes, it sucks and doesn’t seem kosher, but I wouldn’t fault the judge. As I recall, the modest pay never made up for the unavoidable headache at the end of the day. And as much as I once enjoyed competing in the festive atmosphere of a county fair, I haven’t done so in years. Again, not worth the headache.
As someone who has spent many years as a 4-H and open show judge, there is no way to know if it was the judge who decided to let the late comers in, or if it was show management. Many times it is show management, especially if it is a show that show management is either trying to grow or sustain.
I also run the hog show at our county fair. As show manager and head of the swine committee, I make the final call on decisions. If there is a problem, I answer to the executive fair board committee. My goal when making a decision is that I am fair to all competitors involved because I want to encourage them to come back next year.
As far as a judge knowing standards for breeds other than what they are carded in, well, that can be hit or miss. If it is a judge that is popular in the breed as a judge, they might not get to see other breeds, different disciplines, etc. because they are too busy to do shows outside their breed.
I have shown up to shows only to be blindsided by classes I had never seen or heard of before. Sometimes you muddle through and try to do the best with the knowledge you do have and knowledge of the animals bring shown to you.
In the end you must remember that any show, no matter how big or what breed or discipline, uses a judge with a particular opinion on that particular day. Some days you’re the windshield, some days you’re the bug. If you don’t like a certain judge, stay home. You are not being forced to show to them.
A breed organization is most likely not going to care about what a carded judge does at an open show unless they are abusive to either competitors or horses, in some way or another.
