Two words. Dog door. 
1 Like
The same questions about tone and context would apply to the comments about the officers responses and thought about the “documents” MB wanted signed. She leads into relating that exchange with her having asked if a release from liability to allow him to kill her……and it seems to me that was a question designed to suggest to the officer something nefarious about a standard liability release we have all routinely signed in order to ride on someone else’s property. She even refers to the fact that much of the document was posted on a sign by the barn, but throw in a few adjectives and describe the paper as horrifying the police and suggesting MB was mad because he was “caught” in some horrid plan and to some it can easily paint a different picture.
That same kind of speech pattern/leading/innuendo works for threats as well. It might not look like a threat to an outsider, written down, or without seeing the accompanying nonverbal behavior, but I can assure you, it can make a person very uncomfortable and feel in danger if they are constantly subjected to it.
It is likely the same story for the idea that the BI & FM said she could stay. Remember she also said she wasn’t home at the time because RC tried to “break in”. RC was supposedly only supposed to leave a list of the “violations”. Based on the smoke and mirrors on all the other situations, it is possible that they didn’t get an actual sign off about staying but decided based on the wording of the document left that if they “fixed it” that meant they could stay when the BI & FM meant it had to be fixed and inspected by properly licensed individuals before it could be re-inhabited.
7 Likes
As I recall, the gun charge is “unlawful use of a firearm”. I’m guessing that pointing a gun at someone and ordering them off your property at gun point would be an unlawful use of a firearm.
Possibly the DA charged him with that so that if the attempted murder charge fails, because he successfully argues your scenario, they can still get him on “unlawful use of a firearm.”
How was the second gun charge worded?
Even he didn’t go over there planning to kill her, and just lost his temper in the moment, by shooting her I’d think he was still demonstrating intent, so still attempted murder.
1 Like
I agree my scenario still probably qualifies as attempted murder. I’m just saying what I think could have happened, not arguing for a particular verdict.
4 Likes
IM said that he has already pled “not guilty by reason of insanity” and that fits with civil suit against the police. He is saying that he was temporarily insane at the time of the shooting, I believe, and that he currently has no memory of an interval of time that particular day. I don’t think that he is claiming to be insane now.
I read that as the he in “he’d bash” as referring to the child, not MB.
The case that seems similar to me is the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin shooting in Florida. Zimmerman thought Martin looked suspicious. Zimmerman approached him, even though 911 dispatcher told him not to. A physical altercation ensued. Zimmerman said he feared for his life and fatally shot Martin.
The outcome was acquittal.
Not saying Barisone will or should be acquitted.
But the cases look similar if the scenario is as suggesed: Barison e went to get them to leave or retract child abuse charges. A verbal and physical confrontation ensued and Barisone felt in danger and fired or the gun fired in some struugle.
I think the “insanity” is that trauma and stress produced a disassociate d stae, not that he was crazy.
6 Likes
The problem with this is the vast ocean between both state’s attitude toward such incidents. FL is stand your ground while NJ is duty to retreat. Legally, MB had the obligation to leave. He has the additional burden of proving that he was unable to flee in order to use self defense where as Zimmerman had no such obligation.
7 Likes
Zimmerman did the approaching and Zimmerman had the gun, so you’re putting Barisone in the Zimmerman role?
It’s complicated because Florida has stand your ground, and in NJ there may be a duty to retreat.
If MB is pleading not guilty by reason of insanity, he’ll have to meet whatever the legal definition of insanity is in NJ.
It is absolutely not yet established as fact that MB fired because he felt in danger.
3 Likes
Alright, for those of us who got bogged down following the various threads- can someone give me a link to a good synopsis so I don’t have to spend hours on the various threads? I know that LK is Lauren Kanarek, MB is Michael Barisone, RG is Lauren’s boyfriend Rob Goodwin but who are RC and MHG?
Well, I guess one of us can try to write a synopsis……it might take a while.
1 Like
RC is Ruth Cox, the owner of the gun; MHG is Mary Haskins Gray, MBs girlfriend.
The threads are incredibly repetitive, with the same facts and claims and speculations occurring in pretty much each one, so if you pick any one thread and read it, you’ll probably get 97% of the information you’d get from reading all the threads.
3 Likes
Of course it hasn’t been established. The trial is yet to come. His lawyer has not made an opening sta tement outlining the defense s trategy. No one, including Barisone, has testified. n
This is all just friendly, I hope, speculation of an interesting legal case, not anyone trying to prove their take is true and others are false.
The obligation to retreat is an interesting twist. I imagine there are as many differing interpretations of that as of stand your ground, i.e., what circumstances would ma k e that obligation vanish and be replaced by self defense?
I imagine that a key element will be the judge’s charge to the jury. The judge could say, under the NJ law, that he did have an obligation to retreat or say that he did have a right to defense. Or not mention it and let the jury decide.
3 Likes
Scenarios exist in which backing away is not possible too.
Thanks- I read most of the current thread but it was confusing and contradictory. And that probably describes the whole awful business!
2 Likes
I’ll work on a summary/timeline later tonight….
2 Likes
There’s the question of whether requiring a property owner to leave their own property before self defense can be used is a reasonable expectation. Here of course, there are many acres to retreat to, but the home was apparently no longer available for anyone’s use but the tenant. In a shared space retreat becomes pretty tricky.
4 Likes
I think this is a type of misogyny displayed there.
The police dismissed his claims, the police did not bother taking 2 sides.
and of folks having doubts that ‘a big strong man’ can’t defend himself against the little lady - who has an equally big and strong boyfriend
7 Likes
Yes, if it actually came down to a physical struggle, it sounds like it was two on one.
Which is what LK described when she said she was beating him over the head with her phone while the boyfriend was trying to pin him to the ground.
9 Likes
