My cousin has met several Puggles, and she said that all of them had nasty temperaments.
Pretty sure both the purebred ‘parent’ breeds AREN’T known for that, but funny that that has been her experience.
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Pugs/Puggles are very high on my list of dogs I would never own even if they came with their own trust fund. They obviously have their fans, but I find pretty much all of the “smush-faced” breeds to be summarily unattractive. And not only do they tend to have breathing problems (OMG, the SNORING!), but they tend to be way too prone to their eyes getting popped out of the socket. No thanks… 
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I’m not putting words in your mouth - I asked if people think cross-breeders are breeding to correct health issues (brachiocephalic heads) and you said “I offer the Puggle.”
I suppose some designer breeders might actually have a purpose to produce healthier dogs, but I have not really seen any examples of designer breeders who actually are doing this in practice.
A quick google search turned up a couple of sites with ugly pugs being mated to ugly beagles. I am curious if it would even be possible to find a breeder that appears to be breeding Puggles for health reasons. Oddly when I searched “Puggle breeders” most of them are being sold through pet stores of some kind.
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Gah – I want to scream. There is a private “dog club” in my area that says it is owned and operated by “professionally licensed” breeders. It appears to do its own breeding but also acts as a middleman to market puppies produced by its “network of other professional breeders” (can you say “puppy mills”)?
A quick walk through their current website shows the following current offerings:
- Mini Springerdoodles– born 6/13/2022 and 6/25/2022
- BichaPoos– born 6/7/2022 and 6/16/2022
- CavaPoos– born 6/7/2022, 6/15/2022, and 6/22/2022
- ShihPoos– born 6/12/2022 and 6/22/2022
- Mini Ausidoodles – born 6/15/2022, 6/16/2022, and 7/25/2022
- Cockapoos – born 6/16/2022 and 6/22/2022
- Mini Bernedoodles – born 6/22/2022, 6/26/2022, and 7/20/2022
- Bichons – born 6/21/2022
- Mini Sheepadoodles – born 6/30/2022 and 8/1/2022
- Golden Retrievers - born 7/2/2022
- Mini Goldendoodles – born 7/5/2022, 7/15/2022, 7/20/2022, 7/27/2022, and 8/1/2022
- Cavalier King Charles Spaniels – born 6/6/2022
They also advertise the following although do not currently have available:
- Cavachons (Cavalier / Bichon crosses)
- Havanese
- HavaPoos
- French Bulldogs
- MaltiPoos
- YorkiPoos
- Teddy Bears (crosses between Shih Tzus, Bichons, Maltese, Lhasa Apso, and Havanese – of apparently any combination)
From a quick look at their website, the pups run from $2000 to $4000. I didn’t see anything about genetic testing. They guarantee the pups for 10 days to be free from various infectious diseases such as Parvo, Distemper, Hepatitis, but don’t specify what vax or worming the pups have. They offer a limited 10 year congenital health guarantee but have a lengthy list of exclusions, including heart murmurs, allergies, malocclusions, cherry eyes. luxating patellas, inguinal and umbilical hernias, retained testicles, and recessed vulvas.
And I shudder to think about what happens to the poor pups that don’t get sold while they are still in the “cute” stage.
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This is a sad commentary on laissez-faire capitalism.
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I came across the site of a breeder selling Cavachons and Cavapoos. They were priced from $6500-7500! My pony didn’t cost that much.
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Why else are people creating puggles? Before you say because people are stupid–the same people you want to buy a pug or a beagle instead? Breathing problems are still not popular and even 13" beagles are too big for a lot of apartments (20# weight limit).
…the vast majority of people breeding puggles are doing it because there’s a demand and they sell for $$$$. They’re not doing it to “better” anything. They think the quick paycheck is nice.
And the vast majority of people buying them are doing so because they’re “cute” not because they’re worried about the health of a Pug.
Which is why damned near all the links out there are from puppy mills and pet shops.
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Where do you think that demand is coming from? Just stupid people being stupid?
It’s sure not coming from an overwhelming onslaught of people who have a deep moral problem with the way pugs have been bred.
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LOL it’s from people who love to say “puggle.”
Seriously - find us a puggle breeder that actually has a website where they talk about health benefits from this cross.
I’m not saying it couldn’t be a reason, but I have not seen any evidence of a breeder that is doing that.
If I was a Pug breeder who wanted a Pug with a less compressed skull, mating with a Beagle would not be the way. This is an ancient breed found all throughout the world, so it is likely there are many old lines that are still intact. If the head shape is an AKC breed fancy trait, it seems the most obvious first choice would be to find purebred Pugs in other countries that have better heads, and start selecting for head shape.
Mating an ancient Chinese toy breed with a rabbit hound makes no sense.
That said, I can imagine a designer breeder using this angle to attract buyers. “AKC breeders are horrible and look what they’ve done to the poor Pug. By mating one with my ugly and untested Beagle, we are certain the offspring will be healthier.” (OK, well, they won’t say that last part, but that’s what they did.) I feel that it would be mean to link the website with the ugliest Beagle in history, but if anyone wants it, PM me.
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I want to know what kind of idiots pay that much for a mutt puppy. You would pay less for the Westminster BIS breeding…regardless of the breed. This kind of price is usually reserved for titled adults in a breeding program. Maybe some very rare breeds might charge that much for a puppy but for sure they would never be sold to a pet home.
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I haven’t seen anyone on this thread hold the AKC as a bastion of truth and righteousness. What has been pointed out are the breed clubs, who are actually the ones responsible for the standards of the breed. The AKC is not.
What the AKC does remarkably well is marketing.
I totally understand your frustrations with breed clubs run by volunteers. It’s the same in dressage. No one is paid to run a GMO of USDF.
Nope, uniformed people doing what uninformed people do…make uninformed choices.
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When I say “AKC” I also am referring to AKC-sanctioned breed clubs, which must cleave to the AKC tenets of closed studbooks, and appearance standards as judged in a dog show being the sole real attainment toward which to aspire. If you retort that clean genetic and other testing are also aspirations, I will reply that although those are becoming normalized as ethical behavior they are not and cannot be at the same level as visual “correctness”. There will be very few AKC-oriented breeders who will rate a dog which cannot place in a AKC conformation show good enough to breed, no matter how great his temperament, athleticism, health, or any other good quality. This would include a dog who is fully within the written standard but is so far distant from the current style that everyone can see how different it is from all the others in the ring.
What breed did you own/show? My breed club has a lot of problems but this does not sound anything like it. I don’t know that I think it’s correct to say that the majority of AKC breed club breeders disregard everything but potential in conformation. It’s not that hard to produce only that.
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Pembroke Welsh Corgis (back when they were a rather small population breed) and Australian Shepherds, ASCA only and by that time I was done with anything AKC or Conformation, I only had working dogs. I need to say that competition of any kind has never been my big thing really.
My new pup is an English Shepherd. An example of a rural breed which has existed longer than most in the US, without the benefit of the AKC or conformation shows. But far from the only one.
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Potato/potato.
I guess I just don’t understand why you-general, et al present, care so much?
People like what they like. shrug. If AKC etc brand isn’t selling, calling people stupid for not buying what is being sold isn’t going to help the situ. If it’s just venting, cool, I do it all the time. But it’s a lot of pages of venting. Popcorn fodder, surely but it’s just a bitchfest and people will still want and still buy doodles. And so what? Who cares.
I’d offer that just because Cavapoos are being ad’ed at $7000 doesn’t mean they are selling for that. I see used couches ad’ed for $1000 on FB all the time. I do not believe I could get 1K for my used couch.
If you’re OK with a mixed breed, I’m 100% with the “adopt don’t shop” crowd. There’s too many dogs out there already, without breeding overpriced mutts with unpredictable qualities.
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This.
Except!, many people want puppies – and as we have discussed to death, legitimate breeders have very few litters; people want what they want and they want it now.
And they’re willing to pay for it, so there will always be both supply and demand for these designer mutts.
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