There’s two conflicting things here.
Perfect scenario is that all dogs are owned by responsible people, and no unwanted litters are created.
The reality is that there are many many many dog owners who are NOT responsible. They will not cease to be dog owners. So, something has to be done.
This hasn’t been my experience with neutering/spaying early. They end up way taller, with less substance. Lanky and weird looking.
Average age of puberty, as measured by % sperm motility is about 15 months. This is not to say it’s wise to leave a young colt in with the mares…
I agree. My solution would be ovary sparing spays and dog vasectomies rather than removing the hormones altogether. If the main goal is preventing reproduction, there are ways to do that without compromising the benefits of allowing an animals hormones to remain intact.
Understood. As we are getting another puppy in a month or so (another red dog, I keep singing to my black mutt “one of these things is not like the otherrrr”) we are investigating all options on spaying.
In the instances I cited, neutering decreases risk.
Testosterone has a biphasic effect on long bone growth. Initially, endochondral growth is stimulated, and towards the end of puberty, the closure of growth plates is stimulated. Early gelding removes the inhibitory effect slightly, so there is more long bone growth.
Here’s a good resource with citations. I had no idea that anything other than a traditional spay or neuter was available until a friend sent me info when they were deciding what to do with her English Mastiff.
I have read that in Western Europe for example, neutering is not commonplace like it is here. Instead there is the assumption that you will prevent your dog from randomly breeding, as a responsible dog owner.
Probably the difference is that there is so much poverty, ignorance, childish rebelliousness, and toxic masculinity in the US that most ordinary citizens cannot be trusted with such a responsibility.
Well, I know plenty of otherwise well educated people who will breed based on emotion, so it’s not solely that.
I remember with my late mare, who was a total spitfire and had CANCER (!!), people were asking “well are you going to breed her then?” Come again? Breed a mare with a borderline intractable personality that has cancer? Are you NUTS?
I got called a Karen last year after calling someone out on Facebook. They posted on a local group (primarily used for buying and selling chickens) looking for an intact male because they knew their dog would quote “be such a great mom” 
She appeared to be a mix or a poor example of a rough collie.
I commented asking if they had done any health testing and would they require a male who had been health tested, since ignoring all of that could result in pups with congenital defects.
I asked what the purpose of breeding was, did their dog have a phenomenal temperament? Is that something they were looking for in a male?
I asked if they had discussed the costs with their vet, including the extra costs associated with an emergency situation.
I asked if they were prepared to keep any of the puppies if they couldn’t find homes for them.
And I asked if they understood the risks. An acquaintance of mine had just lost her bitch and the entire litter during an emergency c-section.
I was ignored by the OP, and called a Karen by a couple others. But judging by the likes on my posts more than a few people agreed with me. And if that thread stopped one person from breeding their dog for no good reason, than it was worth posting.
Well, yes. But I don’t think that equates to laziness. Even the most diligent owner can have a bad day. The kid who mows my lawn left my gate open last week and all 3 of my intact males were loose for 10 minutes. And for no reason, just an open gate. They were not lured out by the possibility of breeding, so they were easy to get back.
But intact dogs following their hormones are not always easy to manage. If you’ve never been to a dog show with a high libido male, you may not appreciate it. My otherwise perfect dog turned into a raving lunatic over a bitch in standing heat in the ring next to us. Luckily he is only 38lb and very good tempered, but even still I had my hands full.
I don’t have issues with dogs and bitches being spayed/neutered, and think that most vets advise what makes sense for their clients. Whether their clients take their advice, I’m not sure.
Living in the Northeast - we do not have shelters full of strays/puppies from unplanned litters, and that’s a good thing! I have lots of friends with healthy and happy spayed and neutered dogs. And I have lots of friends with good quality intact breeding specimens too. Keeping intact animals requires a higher level of responsibility than should be required to have a pet.
Norway seems to be the opposite of the US with regard to altering–dogs are only altered based on real need to the animal, and it’s otherwise illegal. Here’s an interesting article about it:
Some things that popped out:
There’s apparently no restriction on altering cats because the assumption is that they roam. So it seems that if there’s risk of unwanted breeding, there’s no issue with spaying or neutering.
And this also stood out:
“All the vets I’ve spoken with want to see the legal ban on neutering and spaying ended in Norway,” says Bienek.
My rescue dog was spayed very young - the neonatal spaying. She is unnaturally thin and very leggy. She is an awesome athlete but she probably would have matured differently if left intact longer (>6 months). I would rather have waited until she was older.
Now, on the other hand - our stray kitten had to wait longer for her spay for health reasons. She came into heat before we got her snipped. O–M—G - why are not all house cats spayed. That was a very vocal, weird behavior couple of weeks!
I’ve always said that unless you’re willing to lose the female, the entire litter, and several thousand dollars, AND she’s going add something phenomenal to the gene pool if you get lucky and she and the offspring survive, you don’t want to breed.
And that is why I asked. I just wanted it clarified, for everyone’s benefit. 
Makes sense.
Testosterone = shorter at maturity
No Testosterone = taller at maturity
And that is basically what I said. An intact colt [edit to fix a typo] produces testosterone, which closes the growth plates of his long bones, hence they don’t get longer, and the horse ends up not as tall.
Remove the testosterone before he completes puberty and the growth plates don’t close as early, hence the long bones get longer and the horse ends up taller.
And the “lanky” look of geldings is because they don’t have a lot of testosterone in their systems to build the kind of substance and muscle mass that a stallion develops.
Stallions = shorter and “bulkier”
Geldings = taller and lankier
And I have often wondered how massive some warmblood stallions would be if testosterone didn’t have that effect on their growth plates. Would all those 17h stallions be 17.2, 17.3, or more? Yikes - that is getting up there.
Bingo!
I mean this whole thread started because we’ve established that people will spend untold thousands of dollars on an F1 cross, with little guarantee of its personality or health. And now we’re expecting them to be able to manage an intact animal? That certainly does beggar the imagination.
Fun side note unrelated to the intact or otherwise status of a dog… I was reading on nextdoor about a man who had taken his doodle in for grooming, claiming the dog was scalped, burnt, ear hematoma, abused and so on and so on… Also said that he took his dog in for regular grooming!!! but was also just using this place for the first time (made me doubt the regular grooming claim, but could be true). Naturally a great many Nextdoorians egged him on and bashed on the groomer, but a few people pointed out that this is all the sort of thing that would happen if a dog was matted and the before pictures did look like a potentially matted dog. Then the groomer showed up, complete with videos. The freaking dog was basically a pelt. She had to resort to 40 blades to even get past the top of the head. Meanwhile the unsocialized doodle siblings next to the barn were getting increasingly long-haired, and they pretty much live outside 24/7, in the woods pasture briars you name it. They showed up the other day looking thoroughly scalped, and I’m sure it was a delight for whatever groomer had to handle their unmanaged, reactive selves.
So maybe this is connected, these are the dogs owned by people who actually spend a significant amount of money, no matter how insane I think that is. And a great many of them are barely doing the bare minimum of care. These people are probably two steps up from a great many pet owners. Not for a moment will I judge a shelter who is doing the hard work of getting these dogs and cats off the street, even if it means altering them early. Greater good and all that.
Could not agree more with this. And it’s sad a dog that doesn’t jump all over people is now considered a “well-trained” animal. It’s not hard, people! Boundaries!
That’s interesting - they also recently banned the breeding of brachycephalic dogs like bulldogs, as has Holland. The kennel clubs are apparently all up in arms about it.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
