Sigh - more designer breeds

[MrsFitzDarcy_amp_Feliks]

I’ve had a golden doodle (and feel a little guilty now), and she was a great dog, but unfortunately perished in a car accident I had.

Now I have a standard poodle and personality is pretty similar to the goldendoodle. I love my Adele. I just don’t understand why people don’t just get a poodle. They are generally smart, loving dogs. They come in three sizes. Their coats and grooming are a pain, just like doodles. Adele is a pet. I wanted to show, but I just can’t do the long coat, plus she’s a cream with a liver nose, which is a DQ. Instead, I now show Cardigan Welsh corgis. Don’t get me started on “cowboy corgis” and “American corgis.”

[Jenerationx]

Thank you for that well thought out post of your experiences.

[DownYonder]

Dr D - your comments should be made into an social media post where it can go viral. Every prospective dog owner (and their family and friends) should read it. It might save them a lot of heartache.

[Rackonteur]

Ugh-a!

[Rackonteur]

@Bicoastal

So these huge toy breeds became the norm. Chis are one example of such a common mill breed that everyone knows what a [crappy] Chihuahua/mix is and no one recognizes an actual, purebred, to-standard Chi. They think it’s a “teacup.” Especially a longhair. Correct ones are so rare, it is as if they are a separate breed from the other lot, that is more of a loose phenotype.

I’ve got two examples of this in my apartment building. One is a so-called “purebred” Chihuahua (according to his owner) who must weigh around 15-20 lbs. He does look like a smooth-coat Chihuahua in other ways (to my eyes at least). The other is a purebred Chihuahua who her owner says should mature to 6 lbs. (Which I researched and is the AKC standard.)
Another neighbor said the latter “must be a teacup.”

So maybe the bigger one that I’ve thought was a mix is actually a purebred from a larger mother. I think he was a rescue. The smaller one is from a breeder.

[Rackonteur]

@GoodTimes

GSPs

German Shorthaired Pointers?

[Rackonteur]

So, with all this talk of designer “breeds,” what should/do we think of “legitimate” breeders who breed to the standards of noses so squashed the dogs have major respiratory problems? The breed standard of a head so big the puppies cannot be born naturally but required caesarean? The standard of a dog that cannot stand up straight but whose hind legs are bent to an unnatural and unattractive angle?

I’ve read that in Britain there is a slight movement on to lengthen the muzzles of one of the squashed-face breeds (the Pekingese? I don’t remember right now), but will that happen here in the US?

These are “legit” breeders from whom one can supposedly buy a dog that meets its breed standard. But the standards in these breeds do harm to the dogs themselves.

[GoodTimes]

@Rackonteur

@GoodTimes

GSPs

German Shorthaired Pointers?

yes

[Rackonteur]

Thanks.

[S1969]

@Rackonteur

So, with all this talk of designer “breeds,” what should/do we think of “legitimate” breeders who breed to the standards of noses so squashed the dogs have major respiratory problems? The breed standard of a head so big the puppies cannot be born naturally but required caesarean? The standard of a dog that cannot stand up straight but whose hind legs are bent to an unnatural and unattractive angle?

I’ve read that in Britain there is a slight movement on to lengthen the muzzles of one of the squashed-face breeds (the Pekingese? I don’t remember right now), but will that happen here in the US?

These are “legit” breeders from whom one can supposedly buy a dog that meets its breed standard. But the standards in these breeds do harm to the dogs themselves.

This argument comes around again and again. Bulldogs and GSDs. Again and again.

What I think about these breeds is not really that important, because I’m not a member of their breed club and don’t know what efforts have/have not been made to improve the health of these breeds.

I personally have no issue with GSD angulation, and don’t think that it is a health issue, so I don’t count that standard as an issue. I appreciate that some people don’t like it. I don’t like Dandie Dinmonts, either. Shrug.

There are a number of breeds that have short muzzles that are not necessarily unhealthy, and they have not really changed in appearance over time. Are there some? I guess so. It’s hard to know because it’s easy to find an old photo of a dog that looks different than a more recent photo…but it is possible that neither is “correct.”

Again - this is a conversation that is really better had by people who are experts in the breed standard - typically people who are invested in the parent club.

[Knubbsy]

@Dr_Doolittle

IME, most of the Doodles have a LOT of energy and tend to be excitable, but there are also some with bigtime anxiety issues; though it’s hard to know how much to blame this on the owners - the majority of whom are first timers so don’t exercise or socialize their dogs nearly enough. It seems to be the dog breed favored by a lot of people in the NoVa/D.C. area, many of who are new to the country, a lot of whom are Indian - many professional people who may not actually have the time for a dog, but feel that they need to have one (a lot of that going around), especially if they have kids. Since they have deeper pockets, money is not an issue and they will pay whatever it costs.

My only exposure to Doodles has been in the DMV and they all definitely fell in line with “many professional people who may not actually have the time for a dog, but feel that they need to have one (a lot of that going around), especially if they have kids.” There was one in my CGC class that was just … a lot and the dad who was handling it usually was wearing the consultant uniform so probably just picked the dog up from the house right before class. Admittedly, it was a chaotic group (mastiff, bulldog, mini aussie, doodle, schnauzer, my ball-of-anxiety sheltie, some others I forget). Doodles just keep getting marketed as good starter dogs and I don’t get it. Smart yes. But also from breeds that need work/job/exercise and the DC crowd doesn’t necessarily work with those needs since so many are working beyond 40 hours.

[Willesdon]

Have a look at The Kennel Club website www.the kennelclub.org.uk as it has a lot of info about e.g. inbreeding, health issues with breeds or types, responsible breeding and you can look up individual registered dogs. There has been considerable work to address the worst welfare issues.

I follow Bassett Hounds all winter and the working ones are very different from show dogs: all the same features but not to the extremes. They have e.g. loose skin but not so they look like they are wrapped up in a duvet, e.g. long ears to channel scent to the nose but not to the degree that the leathers touch the ground, e.g. limited haws on their eyes and many working hound have no haw at all.

2012 Bassett Best in Show at Crufts “Buzz Lightyear at Dereheath” was then disqualified by the show vets on welfare grounds - said to be because of his eyes. His breeder subsequently gave up breeding.

[trainer_Xalter]

Great topic.

I am super partial to cattle jacks or cattle rustlers lol, aka JRT/ACDs. I’ve had two now and they are for sure the dog breed for me. I’m in search of another one. The Amish breed them for general farm dogs. The ones with more herding aptitude work livestock, the ones with more ratter aptitude keep the barns free of vermin. Great little terriers with more sensibility and athleticism then JRTs and more terrier moxy then ACDs. Perfect dogs…for me. Hard as blazes to find. Price tag of approx $300-$500. You can’t beat any of that.

Great size, great coats for low maintenance, great personalities, super loyal, affectionate and athletic without being insane.

If the AKC had that in a purebred dog I’d buy it. But they don’t. No such thing. So I won’t. I’ve considered breeding them myself since they are so hard to find. Maybe someday.

Glad to see attitudes maybe changing on this a little. AKC people are tiresome with their attitudes regarding “purebred”. All purebred dogs started out as a little of this and a little of that and every year the AKC introduces a “new” breed! Dumb. It’s not new, it’s just marketing.

Besides all that, what the AKC and their affiliated breeders have done to many “purebred” dogs in the name of fashion and human ego is appalling. It’s getting cultish what they defend in the name of “purebred”. Dogs that can’t breathe, dogs that can’t give natural birth without dying, dogs that can’t run or participate in the sport/activity they were (are?) supposedly bred for. Disgusting. Lists as long as your arm of congenital defects to avoid. Forget it.

I’ll give the Amish farmers my money if they continue to produce these great little dogs. Definitely supporting that.

[trainer_Xalter]

Ps these dogs are unrecognizable as “basset hounds”. These dogs are attractive and obviously athletic. “Real” basset hounds look like crippled cartoon door stops.

[millerra]

The designer dog stuff explains some of the questions that I get about my dog I got from a rescue. She is a collie cross - smooth coat but tan w/ black points, and a too curvy tail. Wicked athletic and long legged. Her two litter mates look like pure smooth collies.

Anyway, I get asked a lot about her breeding and a lot of perplexed looks when I say collie cross w/ a shrug. People expect me to know her exact “designer cross”. She doesn’t have one… The looks are really funny when I’m questioned further and just say- a mutt. She’s a mutt but a pretty cool mutt

[Rackonteur]

@S1969

I don’t like Dandie Dinmonts, either. Shrug.

May I ask why? Honest question, I know nothing about Dandie Dinmonts other than the source of their name and what they look like.

I was thinking of Pekingese, Pugs (the breed some British dog fanciers and breeders are trying to improve standards for with breathing/muzzles), and Boston Terriers (I just saw a video about them the other day).

I grew up knowing German Shepherds who stood square with straight backs and the current WKC entrants look like chopped-off Cadillacs to me, and in pain.

[mommy_peanut]

@Rackonteur

So, with all this talk of designer “breeds,” what should/do we think of “legitimate” breeders who breed to the standards of noses so squashed the dogs have major respiratory problems? The breed standard of a head so big the puppies cannot be born naturally but required caesarean? The standard of a dog that cannot stand up straight but whose hind legs are bent to an unnatural and unattractive angle?

I’ve read that in Britain there is a slight movement on to lengthen the muzzles of one of the squashed-face breeds (the Pekingese? I don’t remember right now), but will that happen here in the US?

These are “legit” breeders from whom one can supposedly buy a dog that meets its breed standard. But the standards in these breeds do harm to the dogs themselves.

With regards to the GSD (since that is my breed) it is not written anywhere in the breed standard that the hind legs are to be “bent at unnatural/unattractive angles”
Not sure where you get that from.
While, yes, they do show angulation, especially when in a proper stack, it should never be severe enough to interfere with their standing or moving.
Just because some breeders breed for things outside the breed standard (it happens in ALL BREEDS) doesn’t mean that is what the breed should look like.
ETA: here is a photo of my male. He is typical of the GSDs I have, see & know others to have.

[S1969]

@Rackonteur

May I ask why? Honest question, I know nothing about Dandie Dinmonts other than the source of their name and what they look like.

I was thinking of Pekingese, Pugs (the breed some British dog fanciers and breeders are trying to improve standards for with breathing/muzzles), and Boston Terriers (I just saw a video about them the other day).

I just think they are silly looking. I’m sure they have laudable traits, and are probably different than other terriers in a variety of ways that make them distinctive.

The thing about pugs or Pekinese is that they may not have actually changed that much over time. They are ancient breeds that were pretty unusual to begin with. Should the clubs change the standards, or should they just make sure they don’t become more extreme?

I imagine those clubs do consider these questions.

[S1969]

@mommy_peanut

While, yes, they do show angulation, especially when in a proper stack, it should never be severe enough to interfere with their standing or moving.

I think most people don’t ever see a show quality GSD except 2x a year – on TV at Philadelphia KC and Westminster KC. And they see them gaiting around with an unusual camera angle that makes all the dogs look weird. They don’t see them hanging out at home or galloping off lead.

[mommy_peanut]

@S1969

@mommy_peanut

While, yes, they do show angulation, especially when in a proper stack, it should never be severe enough to interfere with their standing or moving.

I think most people don’t ever see a show quality GSD except 2x a year – on TV at Philadelphia KC and Westminster KC. And they see them gaiting around with an unusual camera angle that makes all the dogs look weird. They don’t see them hanging out at home or galloping off lead.

I agree. There are many that also don’t realize what one sees on the TV, is just one example of type (American Showline type)
Mine are all Working lines.

For those curious, here is a quick example of what types you may find today, not counting the “american pet lines” which are everywhere