SJ Day 2

[Lord_Helpus]

@Mickey the Marcher;6479530

No, there was no foul play implied. The FEI stated that.
The horse had a scrap/cut. That made his leg hypersensitive. The same thing happened to Denis Lynch and Latinus at Aachen. He was not cited for any abuse, but the horse was not allowed to compete in that competition/show.

Has the FEI never done anything to C its A from a lawsuit? After McLain was eliminated from the WC for hypersensitivity and sued the FEI (or hired attorneys and publically “considered suing as on option that was on the table”), the FEI is covering it bases, since they cannot prove that the rider did anything.

Why else are they testing horses? In the “old days” all a horse had to do was jog sound. If there was any question, it was held and re-jogged.

The hyper-sensitivity rule has only one reason for existing: to eliminate horses who the FEI believes have been tampered with.

If a rider/horse was eliminated because the area over a cut was sensitive, but the horse was not sensitive elsewhere on its leg, and it jogged sound, then the sensitivity rule has exceeded its mandate.

EDITED TO ADD: Now that I have read the details for Tiffany’s elimination, I believe that the FEI clearly exceeded the intent of the rule and thinks it is free to use it to hide behind while eliminating another N American horse. This is a clear abuse of power from which there is no appeal. – I am mad a hell, and feel awful for poor Tiffany whose hopes of riding in the Olympics have been taken from her without cause.

[SnicklefritzG]

^^It is frustrating that Tiffany’s hopes were dashed by a silly application of the rule while Sharbatly and that other guy were given a mere slap on the hand for an obvious and serious drug offense yet were still allowed to participate in the olympics.

Who participates in these decision making processes and appeals? Who makes the final decision?

[Go_Fish]

Good lord, McLain’s a beautiful rider.

[Carolinadreamin]

Could someone educate me about what McLain had on his horse? I think it was a 5-point breastplate, another strap and then the triangle thing?

[Lord_Helpus]

@ynl063w;6479584

This is fine, as long as you don’t give Beezie a break for her poor performance yesterday. If Reed is expected to play in the big boy sandbox every bit as well as those who have been playing in it for much longer, then Beezie, who actually HAS been playing in the big boy sandbox for quite some time, has no excuse for yesterday’s ride.

I don’t see how anyone can deny that this is a sport where experience is a huge factor, and that those who have been riding at this level for decades and have been to the Olympics in previous years have an advantage over those with no previous Olympic experience. All of these horses and riders are basically on an even level talent-wise, so experience is a factor that will certainly come into play.

I certainly do not give Beezie a bye for yesterday. If I implied it, I was not clear.

Whether it was her riding in the ring, or in her warm up, in which it seems to me that she “over tuned” Via Volo, an error was made. I have never seen that horse give the jumps so much air.

Possibly her warm up created such a big jumping horse – Of course I do not know. But, for some reason, the horse could not make the second element in 2 strides, so Beezie pulled out. Then being aware of time faults, she made a tight circle and, perhaps did not give the mare enough straightness or impulsion to get her forward enough to complete the task on the second try. And the mare, having already scared herself, was not inclined to be generous and jump from a long spot.

Somewhere, somehow, an error in judgment was made which resulted in the debacle at the 2 stride.

Rodrigo Pessoa’s horse was also overjumping and spending extra time in the air. And he got a time fault. RP getting a time fault? :eek: That just doesn’t happen when the time is reasonable enough to allow the vast majority of horses to make the time.

I do however (see I can be reasonable :D) not fault Reed for her time fault. I am sure that she was told to take it easy, give herself and the mare a good experience and let the time take care of itself.

[NSRider]

I’m very impressed with the Canadian team, particularly Eric and Ian as they are riding relatively young and inexperienced horses and still getting it done!

It would just be incredible if Ian could bring home a medal for his 10th Olympics!

Go Canada!!

P.S. Does anyone know where you can stream a recap with commentary? CTV has a full coverage of it, but no commentary (plus it’s not working right now)

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;6479671]
Has the FEI never done anything to C its A from a lawsuit? After McLain was eliminated from the WC for hypersensitivity and sued the FEI (or hired attorneys and publically “considered suing as on option that was on the table”), the FEI is covering it bases, since they cannot prove that the rider did anything.

Why else are they testing horses? In the “old days” all a horse had to do was jog sound. If there was any question, it was held and re-jogged.

The hyper-sensitivity rule has only one reason for existing: to eliminate horses who the FEI believes have been tampered with.

If a rider/horse was eliminated because the area over a cut was sensitive, but the horse was not sensitive elsewhere on its leg, and it jogged sound, then the sensitivity rule has exceeded its mandate.[/QUOTE]

That was probably the original purpose, LHU, but the rule is being applied in a manner that is not consistent with the intent. To summarily eliminate a horse, when they admittedly don’t think anything nefarious took place, and the injury is clearly a non-issue, just because they CAN (with no appeal allowed), is unjust. McLain’s ruling was overturned, but LONG after his chance to win the World Cup was over. If you REALLY believe that the FEI is so pure as to not use a rule for its own benefit, then you need to be looking at swampland in FL.

Friends who live with the FEI and their shenanigans in Europe have told me some very interesting things about what goes on with what riders. It really does make a difference WHO YOU ARE.

[DeucesWild11]

Nobody should be regretting having reed on the team- had she not had a (basically) clear round in the qualifying, we would not be this far up. She’s had two rails in the entire competition. We are still in gold medal competition here guys, relax. McLain had a foot in the water which was obviously rider error and yet noone is saying maybe he shouldn’t be on the team. Reed, in this competition, has not performed the worst, let alone the worst for her country. Get off your armchairs people Reed is doing FINE.

[Rel6]

@sp56;6479630

It’s unfortunate for Reed, but I think next Olympics that hopefully the selection committee will add experience into the factors that make up the team. Her horse is undoubtedly brilliant, but also green. It was a gamble.

It’s unfortunate for Beezie, but I feel like it is a great learning moment for every equestrian out there. Things don’t always go the way you expect or hope and even the best make mistakes. It’s how you think about it, fix it, and come out the next day that makes the difference between a long-term success or a short-lived career.

What you wrote here makes no sense. Reed knocked two rails - so clearly thats a problem with the selection process and a green horse.

Beezie had two refusals and was disqualified, but thats just a “great learning moment.” Seriously? I also don’t get the comment about Cylana. Yes, they had two rails, but that didn’t seem to stem from being green. On the other hand Via Volo was acting green in the ring yesterday.

And by the way, its not like Beezie went in and had a clean round today either. She had a rail as well. Am I right in understanding that the only way Reed’s round could have affected the score is if she went clean? Four faults would have just meant it didn’t matter if they dropped her or McLain or Beezie and any more would have made her the drop score without changing the team standings.

Like others have said though, there are no “oh she did so well for a 17 year old!” Thats not going to cut it and she should have the same expectations placed on her as any other member of the Olympic team. People aren’t saying McLain’s round was so nice for a guy who shattered his kneecap a few months ago.

[Mel0309]

[QUOTE=DeucesWild11;6479942]
Nobody should be regretting having reed on the team- had she not had a (basically) clear round in the qualifying, we would not be this far up. She’s had two rails in the entire competition. We are still in gold medal competition here guys, relax. McLain had a foot in the water which was obviously rider error and yet noone is saying maybe he shouldn’t be on the team. Reed, in this competition, has not performed the worst, let alone the worst for her country. Get off your armchairs people Reed is doing FINE.[/QUOTE]

Agree! Look at much more experienced riders with more mistakes/faults. Keep doing your thing Reed!

[MHM]

[QUOTE=Rel6;6479986]
People aren’t saying McLain’s round was so nice for a guy who shattered his kneecap a few months ago.[/QUOTE]

Though maybe they should!! :eek:

[Lord_Helpus]

@lauriep;6479920

That was probably the original purpose, LHU, but the rule is being applied in a manner that is not consistent with the intent. To summarily eliminate a horse, when they admittedly don’t think anything nefarious took place, and the injury is clearly a non-issue, just because they CAN (with no appeal allowed), is unjust. McLain’s ruling was overturned, but LONG after his chance to win the World Cup was over. If you REALLY believe that the FEI is so pure as to not use a rule for its own benefit, then you need to be looking at swampland in FL.

Friends who live with the FEI and their shenanigans in Europe have told me some very interesting things about what goes on with what riders. It really does make a difference WHO YOU ARE.

Laurie, you are right and, having read up on the incident, I have amended my post to show how appalled and disgusted I am with the FEI’s actions.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=Carolinadreamin’;6479683]
Could someone educate me about what McLain had on his horse? I think it was a 5-point breastplate, another strap and then the triangle thing?[/QUOTE]

I running martingale or as they are called at the track, a yoke and rings (or bib)

[lauriep]

Cool!!!

The FEI has long been regarded as 1) an old boys’ club, 2) corrupt, 3) very partial to continental European riders, 4) POPULATED by said Europeans and more. I remember these stories from back in my day. How to change it, I don’t have a clue, but it seems to me that our NARG is the starting place as an organized body of riders who should have some clout. I hope this spurs them to action promptly.

[lauriep]

Cool!!!

The FEI has long been regarded as 1) an old boys’ club, 2) corrupt, 3) very partial to continental European riders (read Germany), 4) POPULATED by said Europeans and more. I remember these stories from back in my day. How to change it, I don’t have a clue, but it seems to me that our NARG is the starting place as an organized body of riders who should have some clout. I hope this spurs them to action promptly.

[PonyPeep]

Does anyone know what time it starts tomorrow morning? I am done with online! I am just going to wake up at the buttcrack of dawn to watch it :lol: I’m in CA if it makes a difference.

[lauriep]

The live stream starts at 9:00 eastern time.

[PonyPeep]

Oh ok. So I have to be up at 6. Not bad. Thanks!

[Lord_Helpus]

@Mel0309;6479987

Agree! Look at much more experienced riders with more mistakes/faults. Keep doing your thing Reed!

I also agree. My post(s) were reacting to the posters who were saying that she rode really well, except for those two unfortunate rails.

I meant to say that she should not be excused errors because of her age or inexperience. And I bet that she agrees with me. She is a real competitor and I am sure that she is holding herself to the same high standards as her team mates are holding themselves to.

I bet she is not sitting in her hotel room saying, “well I rode great; isn’t it too bad I had 8 faults”. :yes: She knows that she can ride better – and has proven it. I am not faulting her riding, I AM expecting her to do the job she can do.

Judging from Katie’s face as Reed left the ring, she (Katie) and GM sure aren’t excusing her rails down and patting her on the back to make her feel good.

We all grew up in the era where you did not get a ribbon just for participating. If you rode well, you got a ribbon. If you didn’t, you figured out what went wrong and worked like hell to get better.

As Tom Hanks said, “There’s no crying in baseball”.

Nor in SJ.

[ynl063w]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;6480032]
I also agree. My post(s) were reacting to the posters who were saying that she rode really well, except for those two unfortunate rails.

I meant to say that she should not be excused errors because of her age or inexperience. And I bet that she agrees with me. She is a real competitor and I am sure that she is holding herself to the same high standards as her team mates are holding themselves to.

I bet she is not sitting in her hotel room saying, “well I rode great; isn’t it too bad I had 8 faults”. :yes:

Judging from Katie’s face as Reed left the ring, she (Katie) and GM sure aren’t excusing her rails down and patting her on the back to make her feel good.

We all grew up in the era where you did not get a ribbon just for participating. If you rode well, you got a ribbon. If you didn’t, you figured out what went wrong and worked like hell to get better.

As Tom Hanks said, “There’s no crying in baseball”. Nor in SJ.[/QUOTE]

Very well said and I agree with all of this. Thanks for clarifying your position.