Skinny horse--how much is too much?

[dungrulla]

I have a thoroughbred I can’t ride that I have had for a number of years. I have always had trouble keeping weight on this horse particularly in the summertime, and this year he just looks awful. It gets hot out, he goes off his feed, is picky about what he DOES eat, and subsequently drops weight. He isn’t that old, about fourteen or so, but he has a handful of orthopedic issues that preclude him from being ridden.

We had the vet out 2-3 weeks ago and she ran bloodwork, and concluded he had dropped about 50 lbs because it was hot out. This was far less dramatic a loss than I expected, but she urged me to feed him something other than the low-sugar senior feed he was on if he would eat it since we confirmed he doesn’t have cushings and is not IR. We started keeping him inside in front of an irrigation mister and plenty of hay if the weather is above 85. He does have free access to hay even in the pasture and he does seem to eat it.

Right now he’s eating three meals a day, of two pounds high quality senior feed and three pounds cheapass nutrena sweet feed. Given this regimen he eats his food, but hasn’t really appeared to put much weight on. Otherwise he doesn’t outwardly appear to be suffering, runs around like an idiot, and is in general seeming to be in good spirits…but he is far, FAR too thin. He’s probably a BCS 2.5-3 at this point, not from lack of trying.

I’m calling the vet out today to run a fecal count (which we already did earlier in the year) and check his teeth (done last year, he’s probably due) JUST in case I missed something. The other horse I have in with him is borderline needing a grazing muzzle so I don’t think it’s general care on my part.

My concern here is that we may be chasing an unattainable goal at this point…at what point would you choose to euthanize a horse JUST because it’s too thin, if any? I hate to be even asking about this but I don’t want to be making an animal suffer for selfish reasons. We had this problem last year too, otherwise I might not be thinking along these lines.

[DinkyDonk]

Is he out on growing pasture? That usually really helps the skinny ones as does alfalfa in some form along with oil. My hard keeper cannot resist any feed that has Cocosoya mixed in it…actually gained weight over this past winter because he ate everything in sight.

[pompeiii]

Can he eat alfalfa? I’ve had a hard keeping (picky) senior thoroughbred that also lost a lot of weight this winter due to ulcers and other issues following the loss of his pasture buddy. Ultimately, he gained weight back on really good alfalfa and purina omolene 200 (he’s happy to eat this vs senior feed and holds his weight better on it) plus free-choice hay. He’s never been chunky, but I actually had to cut back his grain a couple of weeks ago as he gained a few too many pounds. Either way, I’d recommend trying some really good alfalfa if he can eat it. My guy was getting a big flake – about 10lbs worth – as well as grass hay and an orchard/alfalfa mix.

[JB]

We need: [LIST=1]

Pictures

What he's eating now, and what you know he will not eat because of past experience

Deworming history for the last year

dental history for the last couple years, meaning at any point recently were there any major issues that showed up? Just normal stuff? How often done?

Any ulcer treatments, including hind gut issues? [/LIST]

[GoodTimes]

I was also going to ask about ulcers.
Do his orthopaedic issues cause pain?
Are the bugs bad where you are? The mosquitos are bad here at dawn and dusk right now, so the horses who are out at night are doing more walking to try to get away from them.

When you say 2lbs senior feed and 3lbs sweet feed, is that per day? Or per meal?

[fjordmom]

Have you tried adding aloe vera to his feed? I’ve had a few issues with my oldie (25 yr) who was formerly a rolly polly pony not holding weight and getting picky about his food occasionally. Long story (and I’m not going into all the details here, BTDT in other posts) but after treatment for suspected ulcers I put him on aloe for a while. When he was looking good, I took him off. He started to show subtle weight loss. Put him back on and within a week or two he was looking really good again. Both my vets are believers in aloe taming chronic inflammation, be it in the gut or elsewhere. It sure seems to give him a better quality of life.

Green pasture grass seems to help maintain his weight too. He actually gets slightly less turnout than in the past to avoid the flies a bit. Goes out around 9:30-10 AM, when a pretty nice breeze usually kicks up around here. Comes back in around 6:30-7 PM when the breeze dies. I actually started doing this for the sake of my other pony who has sweet itch. It has been good for both of them.

[SusanO]

I have never had a horse turn down good western alfalfa. And chronic pain can lead to weight loss.

[dungrulla]

@SusanO

I have never had a horse turn down good western alfalfa. And chronic pain can lead to weight loss.

That’s what I’m afraid of That this is just a result of his slow, steady decline and at a certain point we won’t be able to do much. He seems okay but I know and so does everyone else that horses are really good at masking pain. He was my first so this is hard but I’m not going to hold onto him if that’s what it is.

I did FINALLY find someone in my area selling what you speak of. I’m going Saturday to get some. I’m buying 30 bales. If he doesn’t eat it something else on my property will so I’m not fussed.

[dungrulla]

And just to update: apparently the compressed bales of alfalfa are delicious enough that they require begging, so I guess he will eat alfalfa.

[NaturalSelection]

Photos are similar to what my chronically lame, 17yo retired OTTB looked like last summer. We fed 4 lbs TC Sr plus 1/2c Canola oil 2x/day. Ranitidine (now famotidine) for ulcers, daily Equioxx. I was wondering whether he wanted to be done but the Equioxx for pain management really seemed to make him feel better and he GAINED weight while living outside in a WI winter, ended up pulling the oil.

Maybe he needs pain management?

[dungrulla]

@NaturalSelection

Photos are similar to what my chronically lame, 17yo retired OTTB looked like last summer. We fed 4 lbs TC Sr plus 1/2c Canola oil 2x/day. Ranitidine (now famotidine) for ulcers, daily Equioxx. I was wondering whether he wanted to be done but the Equioxx for pain management really seemed to make him feel better and he GAINED weight while living outside in a WI winter, ended up pulling the oil.

Maybe he needs pain management?

He’s on bute right now, increasing the dose OR trying equioxx are certainly some thoughts to try. I’ts good to know I’m not alone dealing with these issues though. I know rationally I’m doing what I can, but looking at my skinny horse just makes me feel like I’m doing something wrong, ya know?

[Scribbler]

Not that skinny. He’s like a racing fit 3 year old. I like a little more flesh on a horse but this is not end of life skinny or call the SPCA skinny. He’s also shiny. And I have known TB to get quite poorly looking when they are out of work and bored, and then fill out when they are getting more exercise. In my experience alfalfa works wonders. Higher calorie, very tasty (,unless the stems are too thick), higher protein, calcium buffers stomach.

[GoodTimes]

@dungrulla

He’s on bute right now, increasing the dose OR trying equioxx are certainly some thoughts to try. I’ts good to know I’m not alone dealing with these issues though. I know rationally I’m doing what I can, but looking at my skinny horse just makes me feel like I’m doing something wrong, ya know?

I would probably ask your vet about switching to equioxx. It should be a little easier on his gut than being on bute long term.

[JB]

@dungrulla

1. attached, a bit nervous on sharing these…the vet seemed less alarmed than I felt. Mind you he has no topline and because he has kissing spine will likely never have a topline.

Definitely not a 2.5 BCS, not even 3 unless maybe a high 3. More likely, low 4 with the muscle loss just making it look worse

2. Right now he’s on 2 lbs triple crown senior feed, 3 lbs sweet feed, 3x a day. We have tried: several brands of senior feed, ultim, amplify, omelene, a few other brands of hard feed that he has not liked. Sweet feed has been the winner so far. We are also going to slowly start adding some oil. We slowly worked him up to these amounts–he was however always eating a very large amount of feed, even when he was holding weight okay. I weigh feed out so I know how much he’s actually getting.

ok, at some point you just have to use what he’ll eat. 9lb of sweet feed is a lot of sugar, and may result in him eating less hay than he otherwise would. Which sweet feed?

3. He is dewormed every 3 months with rotating dewormer (fenbendazole/praziquantel/ivermectin) and we have the vet run a fecal twice a year

do you mean fen/pyrantel/ivermectin? You can’t rotate just prazi in. Assuming so, fen and pp are all but useless. That rotation also doesn’t take care of tapeworms, unless you really do mean prazi combine with ivermectin, ie Equimax, at least once a year

4. He had his teeth done last year, no major issues were found, this is one of the things the vet is looking into. He does drop feed but he has always dropped feed.

Great. I have a dropper too, he chews with his mouth open and just wanders his head around :rolleyes:

5. He is on long-term omeprazole and has been for several years now–I suppose hindgut ulcers are a possibility but I’m not sure how I would determine this. We WERE feeding a low-sugar, high-fiber diet to try to head off these issues (I believe in feeding all my horses the lowest NSC values I can get away with).

long-term omeprazole can definitely cause issues in the hind gut. Diagnosis is really more or less by way of treatment. EquiShure (sp, I can never remember) might be a good thing to try

He also gets half a gram of bute in his breakfast which does seem to help with stiffness and helped with appetite last year when we started it, so I’m not ruling out this could be pain related. He has a very bad case of kissing spine, and probably other orthopedic issues involving his SI, etc. He is out on good growing pasture all night, we pull him in when it’s above 85 and otherwise only pull him in to eat.

Chronic pain all by itself can cause this muscle and weight loss, unfortunately

My husband just went out to get a few compressed bales of alfalfa, he doesn’t like cubes because he doesn’t like his food wet and he doesn’t reliably eat pellets. I did find someone selling baled alfalfa after much looking so I’m going to pick that up Saturday.

Awesome - a calorie boost without more volume

In reality, this may be the best he’ll ever look now, with the KS. I would see if you can get a Rx for ranitidine and try that instead of omeprazole - at least that may help hind gut issues. i would also consider a treatment of EquiShure and see what happens.

[4horses]

I struggle all summer keeping weight off my horses. Seems I have the opposite problem.

Here are my thoughts…

Ditch the sweet feed. Most horses love sweet feed. But it contributes to ulcers.

I would try switching the ulcer meds to Nexium. Perhaps the omeprazole just isn’t working for him.

I would try (if he tolerates it) taking him off the bute, as that could be aggravating his stomach. At least a 2 week break to soothe his GI tract.

If he loves alfalfa, I would put 20lbs in a hay net, let him eat that all day. Use a net large enough to reduce waste, yet not so large you have a mess of hay on tye ground.

If he is bug sensitive and running the weight off, he either needs to be put in the barn during the day, with night turnout (assuming he doesn’t stress in the stall). Mine come in between 6-7am, out about 6-8 pm.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹The senior feed is good, i would add canola oil to that. My horses will not touch corn oil. Canola oil tastes better.

[dungrulla]

@JB

Definitely not a 2.5 BCS, not even 3 unless maybe a high 3. More likely, low 4 with the muscle loss just making it look worse

ok, at some point you just have to use what he’ll eat. 9lb of sweet feed is a lot of sugar, and may result in him eating less hay than he otherwise would. Which sweet feed?

do you mean fen/pyrantel/ivermectin? You can’t rotate just prazi in. Assuming so, fen and pp are all but useless. That rotation also doesn’t take care of tapeworms, unless you really do mean prazi combine with ivermectin, ie Equimax, at least once a year

Great. I have a dropper too, he chews with his mouth open and just wanders his head around :rolleyes:

long-term omeprazole can definitely cause issues in the hind gut. Diagnosis is really more or less by way of treatment. EquiShure (sp, I can never remember) might be a good thing to try

Chronic pain all by itself can cause this muscle and weight loss, unfortunately

Awesome - a calorie boost without more volume

In reality, this may be the best he’ll ever look now, with the KS. I would see if you can get a Rx for ranitidine and try that instead of omeprazole - at least that may help hind gut issues. i would also consider a treatment of EquiShure and see what happens.

Vet is coming out next Tuesday to do his teeth since he’s due anyway. We’re feeding the Nutrena 12% textured sweet feed. We do mean prazi combined with ivermectin i.e. equimax, specifically to hit tapes.

I can definitely ask about ranitidine instead, but I thought it was banned now (maybe just for people?). Famotidine also exists though so there’s that. We’re also going to see about equioxx vs more bute.

[JB]

@dungrulla

Vet is coming out next Tuesday to do his teeth since he’s due anyway. We’re feeding the Nutrena 12% textured sweet feed. We do mean prazi combined with ivermectin i.e. equimax, specifically to hit tapes.

You can’t get praziquantel by itself. It’s combined with either ivermectin (Equimax), or moxidectin (Quest Plus, he’s too thin for that). So I’m not sure if you really meant you rotate among fenbendazole/pyrantel pamoate/ivermectin. If so, you’re not targeting tapeworms at all.

I can definitely ask about ranitidine instead, but I thought it was banned now (maybe just for people?). Famotidine also exists though so there’s that. We’re also going to see about equioxx vs more bute.

Ranitidine isn’t banned, it’s just not available due to the recalls. But you can still get it as Rx from sources not involved in the contamination

[dungrulla]

@JB

You can’t get praziquantel by itself. It’s combined with either ivermectin (Equimax), or moxidectin (Quest Plus, he’s too thin for that). So I’m not sure if you really meant you rotate among fenbendazole/pyrantel pamoate/ivermectin. If so, you’re not targeting tapeworms at all.

Ranitidine isn’t banned, it’s just not available due to the recalls. But you can still get it as Rx from sources not involved in the contamination

That makes sense. I will see about getting that instead of the omeprazole from my vet.

[Living_In_The_Sticks]

Glad he likes the alfalfa, that will help put on the pounds. The vet can help with other pain management too if you don’t think the bute is helping enough.

My Ottb is a hard keeper & always has been. He is super picky about hay when grass is available. Even turning up his nose at good hay. He lost a ton of weight before we moved from Chicago to Florida.

I used ABC plus in the past to put weight on him & now I just keep him on it permanently. Now that I’m in Florida I pay an arm & a leg for shipping but it’s worth it. It take 2 to 3 weeks to see a difference. I also added coolstance to his diet. I started slow with it. If he’s a good water drinker you won’t have to wet it. I started with adding alfalfa cubes & eventually switched to timothy/alfalfa cubes. Tifton hay wasn’t enough to get more weight on him so I switched that to timothy also.

[B-burg_Dressage]

He doesn’t look as bad as a 2.5-3. My OTTB gets ribby in the summer too because he hates bugs that he spends all day in the run-in with the fan (I put hay in there knowing that he’s not out grazing but he just sucks in the summer months). Granted, my OTTB is very well muscled, and I think that’s the bigger factor in your guy’s poorer looking figure.

I’m gonna bet those 30 bales of alf help you guys out more than anything else. Sounds like you’re really on the right track and doing your best to be a good owner.