"Sloping croup"

[Samotis]

Question about a sloping croup.

What issues does this cause in a sport horse?

I have some nice young horses out of my tb mare, that have what has been called a “sloping croup”. From the way people say it, it is undesirable.

So what is undesirable about it?

Just curious because my 7 year old seems to have built up his hind end a bit more(doesn’t look as sloped to me) from when he was younger and is actually a very athletic jumper, he even tends to use his hind end a little more then he needs too. (Over jumps) he is a good balanced mover and to me is one of the scopiest horses I have ridden.

My coming 3 year old is a big mover with a lot of power. He free jumps phenomenal.

So I am just curious what this sloping croup is and why it might be undesirable.

Also on a breeding level, what stallions types would help with building a better croup since my mare seems to produce that?

If you guys need pictures I have some of all her foals. If that will help!!

I would love some education on this!!!

[runwayz]

Do you have any pics? I see a lot of TBs racing with sloped croups and it doesn’t seem to affect them.

[Elles]

I think it is a bit like with the back. The Dutch studbooks like to see a horse with some stretch through its body, so some length in the back. While people in English speaking countries seem to like a short coupled horse. However I do not really think that on average it makes much of a difference in performance.
Maybe it has to do with the fact that the Dutch were used to the carriage type of horse that used to have some length and a rather level croup.
The carriage type of horse that was the used to cross with TB’s to create today’s sport horses: http://cdn.nlhors-mansfield.savviihq.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/Gelders-paard_434x3261.jpg
Dutch have never become used to the “TB look” and have a negative view on the conformation traits with regard to sport performance.
For example Baltzflug was considered to have a very sloping croup:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=492546

[runwayz]

Wasn’t this type of croup referred to as “gooserumped” in the good old days?

[Bayhawk]

Too much slope in the croup wildly affects the biomechanics that allow the horse to open his hip and pelvis over the jumps.

This trait renders most horses incapable of jumping big jumps.

Comohn folks…are we really this limited in knowledge ?

This is why top sporthorses rarely come from TB mothers…they are not conformed for it.

[grayarabpony]

http://www.jwequine.com

http://jwequine.com/jwequine/pdf/Conformation-ShowJumping.pdf

[Elles]

Of course it depends on how much slope there is.
For example this is a bit too much:

[Samotis]

I will take some updated pictures tomorrow of them.

Here is a few pics of them when they were younger.

They are all close to a year old in these pictures. Two of them are tb/Galoubet bloodlines and other is tb/Ramiro bloodlines. The Ramiro looks to have a less sloped croup compared to his brothers.

My mare did get the highest score mare for Old NA in 2008 when she was inspected, and the inspector wanted to buy her for his broodmare band!!! So her conformation must not be too bad to produce athletes.

[Samotis]

Here is another of the second colt. Since that picture is at a weird angle.

[Bayhawk]

Any foal of any breed can jump 4 feet , so lets don’t go there. With his conformation in the total hindquarter it will be very difficult for him to jump a COURSE of big jumps.

[Samotis]

Grey Arab pony,

I like those links you sent but it’s hard to figure out all those angles on my own pictures!!!

Is there someone that analyzes these conformation photos for fun or for a fee? Could I send photos of my guys to them and they could explain their conformation to me as far as strengths and weaknesses? I would love that!

Interesting that a sloped croup generally means less scope, it will be interesting to see if this rings true with mine. I certainly don’t plan on showing my horses in the Grand Prix, but it is nice to learn all the ins and outs of conformation and how to look for certain traits to better produce a hunter or jumper!!

[Mardi]

Please read this book by Christian Schacht. It will explain the preferred angles and biomechanics necessary in each discipline. It’s considered THE book on conformation.

http://www.amazon.com/Sport-Horse-Conformation-Evaluating-Potential/dp/1570765308/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1425968554&sr=1-1&keywords=sporthorse+conformation

[nutmeg]

This article lines up several medal-winning croups for comparison:

http://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2015/02/conformation-and-performance/

[Elles]

Guidam:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?showpic=10285273&nm=2&time=1398438412

[JB]

Remember too that no body part exists in a vacuum. The croup is just one component of the hind end and its athletic ability. Is he also long-loined? Weak or strong? Is the horse sickle-hocked or camped out or right under himself? Long gaskin or short? Straight or well-angled stifle? Where’s the point of his croup? A croup can be more sloped and still be quite functional if the point is almost above his hip (which goes with a shorter loin), but more sloped with a farther back point - longer loin - is weaker. Is it sloped and deep, or sloped and short?

There’s just more to is than “sloped croup”

[grayarabpony]

[QUOTE=Samotis;8048328]
Grey Arab pony,

I like those links you sent but it’s hard to figure out all those angles on my own pictures!!!

Is there someone that analyzes these conformation photos for fun or for a fee? Could I send photos of my guys to them and they could explain their conformation to me as far as strengths and weaknesses? I would love that!

Interesting that a sloped croup generally means less scope, it will be interesting to see if this rings true with mine. I certainly don’t plan on showing my horses in the Grand Prix, but it is nice to learn all the ins and outs of conformation and how to look for certain traits to better produce a hunter or jumper!![/QUOTE]

Do you subscribe to Warmbloods Today magazine? JW has a column in there where she analyzes a different horse every month.

[D_BaldStockings]

Judging a yearling is an exercise in folly for the most part.

Regardless of their discipline, most people have an image of a mature horse that they use as yardstick. Yearlings are not comparable at all. Invariably butt high and weak muscling; lax or tight tendons… really, just don’t look at them!

Could the parents jump courses?
What was their conformation?

If you have the right answers to those questions, then wait for them to grow up.

[D_BaldStockings]

Willemoes
http://www.oakhillranch.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Willemoes1.jpg

Guidam
http://www.qualitysporthorses.com/guidam_01.jpg

[LaurieB]

[QUOTE=Bayhawk;8046962]

This is why top sporthorses rarely come from TB mothers…they are not conformed for it.[/QUOTE]

So then the vast majority of Olympic/Grand Prix/4 Star horses that competed in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s were not top sport horses?

[Cumano]

[QUOTE=LaurieB;8049058]
So then the vast majority of Olympic/Grand Prix/4 Star horses that competed in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s were not top sport horses? [/QUOTE]

Where did you get that the vast majority of Olympic GP horses of this era were out of TB dames? Their might have been, but they were not the rule, even more in Europe.