The OP has already invested in the property so it is now a question of how to make it work.
Thereās a fundamental difference between keeping horses in a stable and trying to keep them in pastures.
You can fit a lot of horses on 5 acres if you do a barn with stalls and runouts, and a riding ring. Obviously you have to clean out all the stalls and paddocks every day and exercise the horses every day.
If you want pastures, you will soon kill your grass unless you limit turnout time or have a lot of space per horse.
Or you can give up on grass and keep the horses in crusher dust paddocks.
Manure will eventually disappear in a growing field. But in a dead mud field, a crusher paddock, a runout or a stall, it has to get picked daily. Otherwise it gets disgusting fast.
My stall and runout take ten minutes tops to pick and dump on the manure pile and put the wheel barrow away.
But figure about 50 lbs manure per horse per day. Thereās no way around it.
I am still stuck on the idea of 3 broodmares having foals. Are you experienced in foaling out? Have you considered the extra care, nutrition, and fencing requirements?
Which is likely the reason they are always full. People are willing to overlook some lack of features to have other features.
I am confused what your place will have for features that will make it a good thing, enough to overlook the lack of turnout space.
If this is the case what is the big deal of picking paddocks for 2 hours a day? I would expect, if you are going to have boarders that you also will put 8 hours a day in at the farm, at the very least.
I previously had 3 big horses on less than 3 acres and it can work. I would do less paddocks personally. Save one, or maybe join two together to make a bigger grass paddock. I found bigger paddocks with more horses work better than less horses and more smaller paddocks. I would keep the sacrifice paddocks.
The horses work out where to poop and then only one area gets wrecked if there is mud etc. In multiple small paddocks you lose space because you have a poop area and an area that gets wrecked in each paddock, rather than just one if you joint the paddocks.
You have to realize that getting grass to grow 8" takes a lot longer than you expect. Depending on the weather, after grazing, I would drag the paddocks and leave them at least 30 days, and even then they only grow 2-3" for the most part.
ā1 acre per horseā is if you want grass to be their main source of forage at least some of the year, and thatās even only if you live where thatās possible. In some areas you need 5-10 acres because of how spares the grass is.
Personally, I would never have a mare there to foal out. I wouldnāt want that living situation for the foal. Iām sure it will be safe and they will be well-taken care of, but foalsā feet and bodies need to āmove it move itā
No one told my horses that they are supposed to do this.
they donāt have one grass area they like best to poop in a grass paddock?
One of them does. The other one manures wherever she happens to be standing at the time.
I think this was an important piece to point out. The stocking rate is going to vary depending on a large range of factors.
At my current boarding facility in NW FL, a half acre paddock will supply ample grazing for a single horse ~ 8 hrs a day for nine months out of the year. No resting (other than the hours the horses are stalled). The staff canāt keep up with the mowing in the summer and there is no mud (even in winter). This set up would yield mud lots or dust lots in other climates. If the horses were turned out 24/7 I suspect the grass would disappear.
I agree.
Iām also not seeing the kinds of hands-on personal services that make expensive, densely populated barns work. There are no alternate ways for horses to get at least some kind of exercise, for example - no Eurociser or mechanical walker (never mind the staff these require); no trainer on site able to provide training rides if the client is away; no large turnout area for the odd hour out, and no indoor arena allowing horses to stretch their legs even in bad weather.
Thatās why I asked about the place down the road, which is apparently where the OP is planning to get her over-flow boarders. Itās like sheās planning for half of a certain kind of upscale facility, without adding all the stuff it takes to keep places like that turning over.
McGurkās rule of small farm management: the higher the stocking ratio; the higher the labor and maintenence cost; the lower the stocking ratio, the lower the labor and maintenence.
Your plan as stated will not produce income. You will lose money, maybe even lose money if you donāt pay yourself for labor. And youāll struggle to provide a good standard of care no matter what.
Where I live, in temperate Central Virginia, USA, where we only get the occasional deep snow; the rule of thumb is 3 acres for the first horse, and one additional acre for each additional horse. Thatās acres inside fence, not total acres.
I have 4.5 acres inside fence, and lease an additional 4.5 acres. I have two horses and a small pony. With this grazing load, I only feed hay 4 - 5 months per year. I do still have to hand pick paddocks in the winter. In the other three seasons, rotating and harrowing works to manage the paddocks and provide good forage.
We compost our manure and use it in the vegetable garden and on the fruit trees. We could sell it if we wished; but for us to truly compost manure to the point where itās safe to use takes 12 - 18 months using an open pit method.
So, hereās the drawbacks I see in your current plan -
1.) Feeding hay 24/7/365. Yikes. Because your paddocks will have no forage, your hay expense is going to be crippling
2.) Manure management. You simply canāt manage this volume of manure on site; youāll have to have some of it hauled off, and youāll likely have to pay for that since it will be uncomposted. And thereās no way to avoid picking paddocks 12 months a year; really, youāll have to pick paddocks daily.
3.) Labor. Letās say you do the 8 horses total, broodmares with foals thing. Youāll spend an hour to an hour and a half feeding, turning out and mucking stalls. Youāll then spend an additional hour picking paddocks. That will change if itās raining/snowing/muddy or whatever; the more time horses spend in stalls, the more time youāll spend sifting/picking/rebedding. Letās be conservative and say this will take you 4 hours a day total. And that doesnāt account for unloading hay, unloading bedding, dragging the paddocks, resurfacing the paddocks or actually, you know, touching one of the horses.
4.) This is not a healthy environment for broodmares and foals. Ideally, a mare and foal should have a good expanse of pasture to run and play in, lots of forage, and only be brought in in truly inclement weather and to be handled.
I have 4 horses on 5 acres in the Ottawa area and I find thatās the max my land can take. I have two big pastures and I move electric fencing with the seasons to rotate turnout. I divide the two paddocks in half each and find the horses graze one section down in 1-2 weeks. I havenāt created a dry lot so I move fencing during the wet and icy seasons. There have been times where my horses are confined to a smaller pen for a few months due to ice and they are miserable. I agree that foals need room to run or else they donāt develop the proper bone density and strength. I pick around the hay feeder daily and drag once a week. Canāt drag in the winter and picking frozen manure is hard. There will always be a few frozen piles during the winter and they are a recipe for bruised feet and turned ankles. Your horses will need room to move around those.
Goal: 8 horses on property and making income to pay your time
Current time investment: 3 hours a day (guessing since paddocks are taking you 1.5-2 plus feeding, farm maintenance, etc.)
Expenses (super rough and ugly ballparks)
$100k property investment and $20k additional investment for 5 project paddocks - $600/month
$150/horse base cost (hay, grain, footing/bedding, fence maintenance, etc.)
= $900
Letās say you charge $400/horse. In my area, that wouldnāt fly for a dry lot set up but letās roll with it. Same $150/horse base cost = $250 per boarded horse.
Boarding 6 additional horses = $1,500
After subtracting your $900 expenses your āprofitā is $600. Split across a month is $20/day. Letās say each additional horse adds 20 minutes of labor so two extra hours a day. You will be working five hours a day for $20. Add in something like needing an additional hay hut or taking on a boarder who smashes down a fence and your profit for the month will be gone.
Instead of tearing up your property, dealing with the headache of manure management, etc. why not pick up a few hours of gig/remote work and enjoy your two horses at home? Youāll come out ahead on every level.
Our horses are in nice shape, neither fat or thin. They are easy keepers, so we do control forage intake. As mentioned they are stalled half the day, either AM or PM. When they have been out all night in summer, they come inside in the morning, get wet beet pulp and grain. No hay. They are inside all day, out of the sun and bugs, dim light in the barn. They sleep most of the time inside.
While I realize this is contrary to much present thinking, not having food in front of them constantly, the horses here accept it as normal, donāt fuss. No ulcers, or other bad stall behaviours. They come in with full stomachs, have the wet beet pulp/grain mix until it is gone, if they want any nibbles.
In the past horses got worked during the day for hours, not being fed constantly. They got drinks periodically, a noon rest. Ours have water buckets in front of them. If I was out collecting cattle, checking fence, long-distance trail riding, the horse would not be eating while under saddle. Nor would it be considered cruel.
Our horses get worked fairly often to keep them in various levels of fitness for use. Some in competition, get used hard, over distances. They keep fit on grass and their wet beet pulp, grain mix, though only in moderate servings. They do not need more food to preform well. This is why I need lots of very good grass for the horses here. They get all the food they want grazing. They walk away from grazing to stand together under a tree for long times or by the gate when it is time to come in.
For what purpose? Support your finances? Get a tax break for being a ābusinessā instead of ājust a homeā? Not that itās REALLY our business, but it might alter how some replies are made
Its split into 4 paddocks and they are out from about 9 to 5 from what I can tell. I think there is actually 18. I used to ride there as a kid and I just counted the stalls out as best as I can remember. It just sold so Iām curious what the new owners will do with the set up!
Only 2 will foal in a given year. The person who I am working with has been doing this for I believe something like 25 years. I may put in a 3rd paddock to be safe. Only the one is actually coming next year looks like so I have time to see around that. I do also have a foaling stall. I will be learning from her. Would never attempt something myself without prior knowledge. Have also taken some courses from guelph but I feel that real world experience is best.
Oh I dont mind doing the work at all! Apparently I just have to get better at it as the chores should be taking me about 1/3 of the time they currently do compared to other people. At my rate I would be looking at 8 hours just picking manure. Getting some ideas on how to better do chores from here!
Yes, Iām sure you will learn some tricks as you go and your farm will evolve as you become more efficient. We are all sharing our experience and opinions but each situation has a unique set of variables that we cannot account for - thatās the fun part!