Small acres management opinions

[Dreamraiderr]

Just to point out, while i appreciate the wonderful tips some people are providing, some others are being quite unfair. To insist that I am providing a poor environment is unreasonable. I am one of the only stables within 1 hour that even has a dry paddock. Most have mud. No pasture, no dry paddock, just mud. I work hard every day to build up the property towards a dream. To those who keep asking why I need to make money off this, my dad gifted me the land because he knew it was my dream to work from home at my own barn. Its not the size I wanted but sadly my dad probably doesnt have many years left and I’m not going to throw away what he has done for me.
My stocking rate may not be acceptable for grass but that doesnt mean it is poor care or that there are no options. There are breeders with more horses than you can count in one area and I am here with seperate paddocks and an open ear for suggestions. No need to be so harsh with someone who has made it clear they are open to suggestions to making this work.
The barn has 5 stalls and I hope to have 5 adult horses. You can not make a cent boarding in my area because there are too many places that charge nothing because lack of chores and infrastructure. Most dont pick poop, they use a tractor on it when it gets deep. The arrangement with the mares is worth my while, however. And my two riding horses will of course have to stay.
One mare is to come next summer and I thought about filling the space with boarders till the others come in another couple years. Those boarders will likely want to board with an indoor in the winter. My arena(outdoor) is really nice and that is hard to find here, but you can’t beat an indoor arena for winter.
However I have decided against this as with the labour required it is simply not worth it.

To everyone who has helped me with management tips thank you, this is what I am seeking. As well as information on how often people like to drag their pastures etc. That is helpful to someone who is learning.

The barn I moved from has 5 horses per pasture usually. I believe they are 3 acres roughly each. But they are left in the same pasture year round. There is basically no grass but there is some root structure still in place and other than around the feeder and gate it holds together quite well. This is what I had in mind for pastures. A space to stretch. I had thought that between the stalls at night and rotating the horses I might have a similar result. And use mats or something around the traffic areas. I can see that I will have to limit the time they are out there though beyond the stalls. Or perhaps just keep the mares out there and my boys can stay in the paddocks for the most part. This would give the mares a little more space. I could also do 2 pastures instead of 3 so that they have more room if that sounds better.

[four2farm]

Reading through these posts made me think about our original plans. The original plans are completely different from what stands today. The horses are here but that’s all that is the same. We struggled to stay on plan until we just decided to let the land and horses tell us how to keep building. You sound like you are in the beginning of your farm journey. New labor saving equipment and techniques will find it’s way into your routine. My advice is to really try to fine tune and lessen your chore time allowances before you bring another horse. Get a fast routine, do not waste a step in your day. If a tool saves your back, then make a priority to procure it.

It is really fun and exciting in the beginning, it was for me, but as years ran on, the property wore in, chore time became limited and life just happened.

I have a barn full of tools that make my life easier and my back happier. Morning chores for my 4 take 30 minutes am and 1 hour pm, including paddock picking. Add an additional 3 hours one day a week to put out round bales, bring in feed, dragging dry lot, picking up limbs, scrubbing waterers, stripping run ins. This does not count toward the never ending fence repairs, mowing, liming, fertilizing, seeding, gate painting, tree pruning, leaf raking and on and on.

If no one noticed I did not mention grooming, tack care or actual riding. That time, I don’t count, I try not to keep track.

Take your time and as corny as it sounds, plan less, let your property and your horses tell you how to proceed. I can bet that you will encounter problems you never expected or have no issues where you expected problems. That’s how it worked for me at least.

[Weezer]

It sounds like your place would be well suited to offer retirement board. Many people are willing to pay for their old competition horse to have a quiet place to retire where they will get individual attention, grooming a couple times a week, and medication/blanketing care. They don’t need facilities beyond nice, safe turnout and a good shelter. The retirees require diligence in terms of watching their health but they do not tend to cause a whole lot of drama in terms of spooking through fences, etc. I run a little retirement farm at it’s a very peaceful herd.

[Red_Barn]

@Dreamraiderr

I am one of the only stables within 1 hour that even has a dry paddock. Most have mud. No pasture, no dry paddock, just mud.

Okay, this is where I’m getting confused.

I generally associate horses kept in very close quarters with those snazzy, labor intensive barns you see in hot, dry places where land is crazy expensive - Los Angeles, say.

Why are horses in rural Canada being kept this way? I live in rural Maine, which has a climate and land values more like yours, and I virtually never see this kind of arrangement except in badly run private barns and maybe emergency shelters like rescues. However else they’re cared for (or not) horses here at least have a bit of space most of the time.

I’m guessing that’s why people are giving you a bit of push-back - not to be mean, but just because you’re describing situations that most of us, in other parts of the world, would be careful to avoid.

[JB]

@Dreamraiderr

To insist that I am providing a poor environment is unreasonable.

Nobody said that without context. It’s not a good environment for a foal to live the first 6 months of his life, not because of footing or quality of care - he’s got no room to run and be a foal. And given the real possibility he and his dam would not be able to be turned out with another mare/foal pair, he’s not going to get that early, important socialization (and it increases labor, moving them around)

I know those setups exist. I and many others wouldn’t put a foal in that position.

@Dreamraiderr

To those who keep asking why I need to make money off this, my dad gifted me the land because he knew it was my dream to work from home at my own barn.

Does this mean this would be your full time job? Perhaps I missed something? I guess what I really mean is - are you needing to make even a half-time income off this? If so, I’m not sure that’s possible given even just the costs of hay, bedding, manure storage/removal, and basic repairs.

@Dreamraiderr

You can not make a cent boarding in my area because there are too many places that charge nothing because lack of chores and infrastructure.

So what makes your place competitive enough to make a profit?

@Dreamraiderr

I thought about filling the space with boarders till the others come in another couple years.

“till the others come” - what if the boarders don’t want to leave? You can’t kick them out just because you’d rather fill the spot with someone else, assuming they are good, paying boarders. You’d have to make their contract such that they leave by X date, or “likely” may be “never”, especially if that’s an indoor they could trailer to without paying that higher board

@Dreamraiderr

And use mats or something around the traffic areas.

If you mean something like stall mats, that won’t work. You’d need geotextile fabric and good footing on top, or using some of the newer grid systems with footing on top

@Dreamraiderr

I could also do 2 pastures instead of 3 so that they have more room if that sounds better.

1.5 acres IS better, but that’s still part time turnout or there won’t be grass

You definitely have your work cut out for you to do what you envision. I still recommend hiring a consultant to at least help walk you through a Q&A, even if he doesn’t do a full long-term facility layout that you can build in stages if needed.

[Red_Barn]

@JB

So what makes your place competitive enough to make a profit?

I haven’t seen anything very compelling yet, so why even try and make money from boarding, which has a very low profit margin anyway?

Have you considered some other way of making money, OP? Installing a trainer and running a modest lesson program, for example? Or maybe a small, high quality summer camp? You have a nice outdoor arena, apparently, so maximizing the use of that space in the warmer months seems like the smarter way to go.

[lenapesadie]

I am also confused as to why such high stocking rates would be common / accepted in rural Canada. The OP mentioned something about it being a cottage area I think. Is it possible that this is some sort of lakeside area that has vacation property values? I’m just making wild guesses as I’m from FL and have little understanding of the Canadian real estate market. I live very close to the white sandy beaches of the Gulf of Mexico and our property values reflect that. Higher stocking rates at horse facilities are much more common here than they are at facilities even 60 miles north of my location.

[McGurk]

Re: dragging pastures/manure management.

Best practice is to move the horses off the paddock, then pick and/or drag, then let the field or paddock rest for a period of time. This isn’t just pasture management, it’s parasite management. You don’t want the horses out in a freshly harrowed paddock because of the likelihood of parasite reinfection. I only worm four times a year, and I schedule worming on the same day as moving the horses to clean pasture to lower the risk of reinfestation.

I think with your acreage and small paddocks that’s not workable, and I think the recommendation for small paddocks/dry lots is the only thing that will work. In other words, give up on grass and focus on managing the footing and drainage. Depending on your skill with a tractor or skid steer, you can do a lot of the manure removal with a rake mounted on the equipment. You’ll still have to do some picking, but using the tractor or skid steer will be a time saver.

I would also put a lot of thought into how you feed hay. Horses grinding hay into your footing ruins the drainage; you’ll need hay racks, bale nets, hay huts or covered feeders to keep that from creating another maintenence problem.

Find out what the barn up the road does for manure removal, and add that in to your calculations. Because your acreage is small and you want every available bit for paddocks, I would not recommend composting it yourself or spreading it. See if you can make a good deal for having it hauled off regularly.

I am not trying to be Debbie Downer here, but I’m not a fan of this setup for mares and foals. You say you have a nice outdoor arena? That might be the amenity to leverage and what makes boarding with you an attractive proposition.

[Bluey]

One way to go about figuring all this would be to think about keeping your regular job for a steady income and benefits like health and retirement/savings for a handful of years to come.

During those years, as you see best, work on developing your place.
That may give you a less challenging and stressful way of learning as you figure how to best use that land without needing to make it pay right away.

[MMavin]

One other note about grass farming: in my climate, it takes two growing seasons for grass to develop a healthy root system. So reseeding actually requires resting that area for a year. Not doing this means the new grass can’t regenerate after grazing, or the horses simply rip out the grass roots and all. May not be true in your area, but worth researching before potentially wasting money.

[JB]

@McGurk

I only worm four times a year,

That’s quite a lot - do you have chronic high shedders?

@McGurk

In other words, give up on grass and focus on managing the footing and drainage

I think I agree. Maybe have a half acre is pasture, max 1 acre, for a short period of grazing for the animals that would benefit the most, and make the rest of it highly usable dry lots

@McGurk

I would also put a lot of thought into how you feed hay. Horses grinding hay into your footing ruins the drainage; you’ll need hay racks, bale nets, hay huts or covered feeders to keep that from creating another maintenence problem.

100% yes. Good point.

[McGurk]

@JB,

I have not bitten the bullet and gotten fecal egg counts done. I know, I know. So I use a deworming protocol recommended in my area for moderate shedders and careful pasture rotation/management.

Recommendation for low shedders is 3X a year, so I don’t have a huge incentive to do the FECS.

[JB]

@McGurk

Recommendation for low shedders is 3X a year,

Generally speaking, low shedders are twice a year, moderate is 3, high is 4, with individual situations varying that a bit.

What protocol are you using, if you don’t mind?

[McGurk]

@JB,

https://piedmontequinepractice.com/herd-health/

[Simkie]

@Dreamraiderr

I am one of the only stables within 1 hour that even has a dry paddock.

But if you stock your few acres the way you’re talking, you’re also going to have horses in mud.

Or, you’re going to have horses in small dry lot pens 95% of the time. (And those will need to be cleaned daily.) Small pens really aren’t suitable for foals.

Something that I don’t think has been brought up is that it’s TOUGH to remove manure from snowy areas. I’m facing this now with the runs off my barn. I can chip it out with a shovel, which is a PITA and just really time consuming, or I can wait until thaw and rake it all up then. Our weather is pretty mild, so I might have a week of wet and heavy crap to collect for maybe 2-3 big storms each winter.

But if you’re turning out on your fields in the winter–which you’d want to be, I think–it’ll be really difficult to pick up all of that winter manure, and at spring thaw, it will just sort of melt into your field. With reasonable stocking rates, it’s not a big deal. With excessive stocking rates, it’s just one more thing that will make it very, very challenging to maintain any grass in your pasture. Instead of pasture, you’ll wind up with mud :-/

[stb]

What you are proposing is too many horses on too few acres.

I have 11 acres at my place. Some is in woods and road frontage. I have one pasture of 1.5 acres, another that is 1 acre, another that is 3/4 acre, and the last pasture is 1/2 acre. I have a dry lot that is a little over half an acre. I live in the southeast, with sandy soil and a relatively long growing period for grass. For years I had two horses here. I generally turnout for half the day and my horses are in the dry lot with hay and access to stalls for the other half. With that set up I had plenty of grass for 9 months of the year and footing stayed good.

Enter the pony for the grandkids. While I still have grass for everyone it is more like 7 months worth and it is not as healthy. I really can not rest pastures like I did in the past, so the pastures are suffering a bit. It is still doable, but barely. I surely wouldn’t add another horse to my herd and when one of these horses goes to the big pasture in the sky I will not replace them. Two is ideal at my place, three not so much.

Also, I clean stalls and the dry lot DAILY. I pick the pastures twice a week and I remove the manure, I do not drag it. Even with 3 horses, composting requires a good bit of space, and multiple piles so that they can age. That, too, takes acreage. And where are your boarders going to ride? That takes acreage too. I just can’t see how you can reasonably make that many horses work on that little bit of land.

[JB]

It’s not that it’s too many horses, or that it can’ work. Ever seen barns in SoCal, places in Arizona, places around Denver?. Those are higher stocking rates than the OP is proposing. 100 horses on 5 acres. They’re all in “mare motels”, there may (or may not) be some tiny spots of grass for hand-grazing, turnout might be available in a riding ring if nobody’s riding. It’s labor-intensive for stall cleaning and feeding hay, it sure is costly for the labor and full time hay and bedding.

But what this setup IS too small for (or too many horses for the setup) is healthy turnout, and because that many horses will increase labor, bedding and hay costs (and likely repairs), it’s going to be reeeeally hard to make a decent profit even if there’s a nice riding ring.

[Scribbler]

I can’t see how you could make an income boarding six horses that are being fed hay, grain, and supplements as needed. Depending on local costs and the individual horses requirements, you are going to be spending from $200 to $400 per month per horse, and you don’t want to skimp on nutrition for pregnant mates. Then there is bedding because the horses need to be stalled part of the time.

What are you going to charge for board? Let’s say you can charge $600 per month. That means you could clear optimistically about $300 per horse after you feed and bed it. Then think about your maintenance budget for your property. Realize that if every other local barn has mud, so will you once you put more horses out.

Have you priced out what it costs to get drainage and gravel footing put in? What it costs to maintain your outdoor arena? Etc?

Have you priced facility insurance? Property taxes? Utilities?

At $300 a month profit on each horse (do foals count as a horse and are you going to charge full board on a nursing foal?), you are going to make before tax profit of maximum $1800 per month. Some of that has to go into a maintenance fund. So say you can pay yourself $1000 per month before income tax.

Is that an income? For working full time?

[alibi_18]

@Dreamraiderr

(…) why I need to make money off this, my dad gifted me the land because he knew it was my dream to work from home at my own barn. It’s not the size I wanted (…)

You had a dream.
You got a gift that doesn’t quite fit with the dream.
The gift doesn’t seem to fit with the reality of making a business either.

So as grateful as you should be about this gift, you should be very realistic about it because this wasn’t very thought through.

Hire a professional, see what can realistically be done and see if it could make the paying day job you need. (not the job you are dreaming of)

[Montanas_Girl]

I’m sure you’re frustrated and unhappy that we’re not giving you the answers you wanted or expected. I don’t want to continue raining on your parade, so I’ll ignore the too many horses/not enough space (for grass turnout) issue and focus on your paddock picking.

Is it REALLY taking you two hours a day right now to pick up the manure from two horses? Can you describe your process/technique better? I’m sure we could help you improve that time dramatically. I currently have three horses (well, four this week while a friend’s broodmare weans her foal, but normally three) on just under 5 acres of fenced area - two 2-2.5 acre grass pastures and a roughly 1/4 acre sacrifice area. My horses are in the sacrifice area during the day and have access to one of the grass pastures at night right now. (They did have pasture access 24/7 until last week, when my grass finally started to look like it was “done” growing for the season.) I pick up manure in the sacrifice area every day while the horses are eating their breakfast. It takes me 15-20 minutes, including hiking all the way across the larger pasture to dump the manure. And I don’t have footing in my sacrifice area yet, so I’m picking manure out of grass and mud, which is much, much more difficult than off of compacted stone.