I think some of us do not understand what is unacceptable or horrific . . . .
M_J, condolences on the loss of your horse.
I agree that MJ needs help. A loss is a loss and she needs to deal with that first. I accept that but I will not accept “she didn’t mean it” or “don’t blame her”. Who are we suppose to blame, Seger? We’re taking about an innocent animal who has relied on his owner to help him and through her ignorance/pride, she let him down.
I got my first horse when I was 14, my parents didn’t know about him for the first 2 years. He was kept at a boarding facility where it was in agreement that I did everything ecept own the facility. I took complete care of him (fed him, cleaned his stall, got farrier and vet visits, turned him out ect…) along with 25 other horses to work off him just being there. If there was one moment where I thought I couldn’t do it, that horse would have been gone. I loved him too much to ignore his needs.
If Erin continues this thread I can’t see this being dropped anytime soon. A death has occured, an animal has been betryaed and there are many people here that will can not just shrug this off.
<It’s all part of my ninja training 
>
Maybe, instead of sitting here complaining about how she needs help, we should DO something to help her? Or atleast she pony she still owns…
Claire is half dalmation and half staffordshire terrier and she inherited her profound deafness from the dalmation side. She was born with incomplete eardrums. She is now 2 1/2 and an absolute delight but initially, it was pretty tough. We attached a longe line to her and when she would start to wander, we would step on the line and motion her back. She now knows to stick pretty close and is never out without me. The people who originally owned her had her in a shock collar and would zap her every time she barked. Did I mention she was deaf??? Claire doesn’t know that barking makes noise. She frequently “mutters” to herself. Hey, so do I! What does that say about me?
And this is horse related because Claire and I live on a horse farm.
Tiff,
I am so so sorry to hear about your loss. Seger fought a vailiant battle, and I know you did the best you could. Hang in there…we’re all here for you
having been to MJ’s website, I thought her horses looked to be in good health and of good weight. I know things change, but I can’t imagine parents, even non-horse parents let a situation get as out of control as the rumors have stated, nor can I imagine a veterinarian seeing anything remotely like the rumors and not having charges brought.
I could be wrong, but I hate to jump to conclusions especially when it involves a minor.
Behind every good woman lies a trail of men
ETBW…You Go Girl!!! 
well. i would rather not talk about it right now… i know you understand
ETBW>>> that was a very nice excerpt…(sp?)
Musical_Jumper
“Event riders leave no ring unrode, no jump over turned, and no ditch filled in.”
“Your competition just got better today, did you…”
http://accopmanyme.tripod.com/tiffanyswebwonderland/ ~~ Come check out my site!!
Thanks, folks, for being thoughtful and level-headed.
This whole thing is tragic.
It’s a tragedy that an innocent animal had to die.
It’s a tragedy that a 16 year old failed to uphold her responsibility.
It’s a tragedy that no one was able to intervene until it was too late.
It’s a tragedy that this entire tragedy has been witnessed by all of us on this BB.
It’s a tragedy that our trust has possibly been betrayed.
But the real tragedy is this same situation is taking place right now, somewhere else. It’s up to each and every one of us to keep our eyes open and to report any signs of animal abuse that we may suspect - and also to give generously the next time you are asked to donate money to an animal shelter or group. Better yet, go out and make a donation in that poor horse’s name.
We owe our good animal friends that at the very least.
you’re one post away from 700…
JoHn (WiNgLeT)
“Horse sense is what a horse has that prevents him from betting on people…”
-W.C. Fields
On the other hand, the early WORM gets eaten…
Look at my ultra cool site!
www.geocities.com/winglet18
There is assembled on this BB an extraordinary group of knowledgeable, compassionate and trusting people. We are very much a community of kindred souls who can discuss, share, bicker, commiserate; and as annonymous as most of us are, we will also very often go out of our way to help fellow BB’ers in need. I’d hate to see that good will undermined.
The only conclusion I can draw is that those who need help should honestly seek it.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I’m 45, and you’ve admitted to being 34. Yes, we would probably know when we’re in over our heads.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
16 years of age should have been old enough to have handled the situation differently than this. But apparently not in this case, most unfortunately for this poor horse. JMHO.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ErinB:
I’m 16. Duh life sucks when you’re 16. It sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks. I admit it. It sucks it sucks it sucks. But the thing that would push me to suicide would be the guilt I would feel if this happened to my horse (which it wouldn’t). Tiffany apparently does not feel guilty, at least she hasn’t shown it on the board.
If a bunch of cyber people whom you’ll never meet can push you to suicide, goodness how would you react if your horse colicked? You know, stuff in real life? I may be a little crazy, but I’m not insane! 
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for calling me insane. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate that. Have I not said a MILLION times I don’t agree with what she did, and that helping her would be more productive that sitting here SAYING she needs help? Yeah, i’m pretty sure I have. Thanks for not poining that out, though. Are you Tiffany? NO! So how on earth would you know if she feels guilty or not? Why the hell would she come back here? No matter what she says she will get pounced on. I don’t blame her for never coming back! Now, as I said before, if you have something to say to me then e-mail me. I don’t want to talk about it on here anymore!! It’s not rocket science…
Hard to find the words to express my concern for you. Just know that we all care about you, and that, if you need to talk, I, and I am sure many others, will be willing to listen. My email is listed.
LT>>> when seger was put down the tests had not came back… the vet told me that he beleived that seger was afflicted with ulcers… so while the vet did not and was not able to say for sure that the horse had ulcers… he had told me the night before that he strongly was leaning torward ulcers…
seger was given a chanec to drink, and he still had good gum color up to teh end… he was given any hay he wanted to grasp and eat in an attempt to boost his energy… i beleive that seger was exhausted b/c he was probley fighting all night, and that was stressful on him… but i cannot say for sure…
ALSO>>>>>>>>>>>> just to clear something up… pertaining to the fact that i could not afford the expensive care he may have needed … i was willing to give him to the vet or someone who could afford the care he woudl need to survive… the vet gave me this option… i said yes in teh best interest of the horse… im sure that some people think that i was stubborn and not willing to get any help for him… i was… i was willing to give up ownership to save his life…
Musical_Jumper
“I’m sick of the tension, sick of the hunger
Sick of you acting like I owe you this
Find another place to feed your greed
While I find a place to rest”
http://accopmanyme.tripod.com/tiffanyswebwonderland/ ~~ Come check out my site!!
First, thank you Touche for posting the eyewitness story.
When MJ posted her long posts about her parents and their attitudes, I felt that something was not right. That something was not being stated.
And where were the parents… 
This really bothers me. How could they let a 16 year old handle the total care, expense, and responsibility of a horse and pony, especially when there seemed to be health issues with the horse? The horse was on their property, no? How could they not notice that the animal was emaciated? If they had a problem with Tiffany owning the horse, they should have insisted she find another home for him.
I’ve seen emaciated horses when I volunteered after Hurricane Andrew. (All the lost and abandoned horses were brought to Tropical Park in Miami for care by volunteer vets and others. Some horses were in such bad shape, and not from the Hurricane, that instructions were to call the police if the owners showed up and tried to claim them.) Anyway, there’s no way to not notice an emaciated horse.
These parents share a lot of the blame. They are the adults in this situation. They’re supposed to be the responsible, clear-thinking individuals in the equation. They should be ashamed of themselves. 
Waterwatch, agreed. I think this is where the “talk about the situation, not the person” rule might apply. Erin’s a better judge of this, but there are far more constructive ways to discuss this situation. Other members have started topics on ways to help horses in similar situations, trying to keep an eye out for future situations, etc. Let the bickering members E-mail each other. I can’t see how fighting is going to make anything better.
… your kind comments and posts are helping me through this…the poems are beautiful… thank you…
well, the vet took bloodwork on wensday night and the results were due back last night… the vet said that it was ulcers… the reason we had to put him down is b/c he had cast himself that night after the vet left… seger always laid down, he was always doing it in the pastures as well.
well, when i went to do morning feedings i saw he was not standing when i turned on the light and went to wake him up, when i saw that he was in the corner i was instantly sick… i knew thiw would not be a good day. we called someone from the next town that i knew could help, and the vet kept in touch until he was out of surgery on a few smaller animals…
when the vet arrived we chainsawed the stall wall and finally got enough room to let him try to push himself out into teh isle…seger was exhausted, but he never quit fighting… he would try to get up, that would exhaust him so he would eat a few bites, take a long rest, then try again… he did this all day…
after many many options to try to save him were solwly failing and seger was so exhausted he couldn’t really help us help himself i decided it was time… he was lying in our isle way, and as the vet readied the injection i took his big soft head and told him i was so proud of him, that i would never forget him, i loved him, and that i was sorry…
even in his last breaths as the vet approached him to give the injections seger tried to lift his head, a finaly battle i guess against the unstoppable… he looked into my eyes as he passed away… and i knew that he would be ok…
seger passed away sometime around one pm…
Musical_Jumper
“Event riders leave no ring unrode, no jump over turned, and no ditch filled in.”
“Your competition just got better today, did you…”
http://accopmanyme.tripod.com/tiffanyswebwonderland/ ~~ Come check out my site!!
I have to agree. Those of you who have been so harsh to MJ have to consider that she had the vet’s input, and he is a professional who was there before making the decision to put Seger down. I would venture a guess that there was more than exaustion involved.
Some people, not here, have critisized me for putting down my 17 year old gelding who–and who knows how he did this–stepped on a nail and eventually needed surgery to survive. For me it was not worth the pain, it was not cost effective–yes that did factor in–and it was not realistic because he was nuts even under tranquilizers when confined to a stall. Most people don’t know about his stall behavior because he behaved at shows. I caught so much grief about insinuated theories as to why I put him down–mostly regarding the cost. While these people did not know the story, their comments hurt greatly and did nothing of value. I do not think MJ was soliciting support as much as she was letting the BB know the outcome. It must be a long fall from that high horse if you don’t know the facts.
There are actually 3 sides to every story. The two peoples perception and the truth. If you were not there, don’t judge. Personally, I would find it offensive to be offered “forgiveness” from people who only knew part of the story.
