You’re right, AAJumper. I had totally missed that thread, and you’re right, that sounds like the parents looking at the horse and saying, she doesn’t know what she’s doing, we need to get this horse out of here and to someone else.
I have felt your pain, and I feel the echos again, but they do diminish and we are left with good memories.
My thoughts are with you.
OK folks, let me start by saying that I get no satisfaction out of this post. I have been trying to avoid it completely, but now it seems that the vet’s expertise is coming into question and I absolutely will not allow that.
Mj was my daughter’s closest friend. We took MJ with us to many, many horse functions including shows, expos, PC, Rolex, Equitana ect… She really loves the horses and reads a ton of info on them. The vet knows her from PC. He was there at the knowdown when MJ won first place in her division! Her proven knowledge made us feel that she knew how to give basic care to her horses.
I am the one who arranged for MJ to get Seger. I thought this would be a terrific opportunity for MJ to achieve her dreams of eventing. I was so excited for her. Now I feel guilt.
Last Thursday morning the vet called me and explained that Seger was cast. He said that he was over an hour away and asked if I could go over there and try to help. He said that he was going to ask MJ if he could take Seger home with him with no strings attatched. He tried to prepare me for what I was about to see.
When I arrived at MJ’s, Seger was no longer cast yet he could not get up. I am not a vet, so I can only tell you what I observed…and that is that Seger was the most emaciated thing I have ever seen. I won’t go into detail other than to say that I have seen two similar horses at a kill sale once, but at least they had the strength to stand.I gave Seger 10 cc of Banamine per Dr.s orders. I was in touch with the Vet via MJ’s cell phone. I told the Dr. that I felt that Seger was too weak to even get up on his sternum. I also relayed to MJ the Dr.s request to take Seger without strings attatched and MJ agreed.
After the vet arrived, we tried for several hours using various methods to try to get Seger up. The vet truly felt that if he could just get Seger up, he would be able to save him. The vet was trying extra hard as he was Seger’s vet before Seger was given to MJ. The vet did not want Seger’s breeder to hear how her gift to a girl came to an end.
My observation is that a vet should have been called long before the horse got in the condition that he did. I live about 20 minutes from MJ’s house and I can think of three vets besides the one she publicly bad mouthed by name, that makes farm calls to this area. I last saw the horse in August when the pictures on her website of MJ in a dress were taken(we had just returned from watching the TPH Grand Prix). MJ had recently moved her horses to her house so there was lush pasture at the time.
When Seger was given the injection, I angrily said to MJ that I wanted two things from her. One was to stay off of the COTH BB, and the other was to get some counseling. I do not like that her posts seemed to be geared towards getting sympathy from everyone AND getting told by numerous people that she did everything that she could for Seger and that she was an excellent caretaker. From my observations, this was not true AND I think that it is not making MJ face the reality of the situation, which is why I also suggested to MJ that she receives some counseling.
After the incident, I called MJ’s neighbors where MJ’s pony, Thunder is staying. I checked to make sure Thunder’s condition was good. The neighbors assured me it is. I gave the neighbors my opinion of Seger’s death. That has angered both MJ & her father and I was told to MYOB. My reply to that was two-fold. First, I said that when MJ can produce a written report from the vet stating in his proffessional opinion, why Seger was put down and if it differs from my own opinion, I would be happy to give any written or verbal apology to anyone she wants me to. Secondly, I told MJ & her father that “When animals can speak and cry out for help, I will remain silent. Until then, animal welfare is everyone’s business”! I wish that I would have seen Seger before the day of his death. I knew that he was a hard keeper,but had I known how his condition had deteriorated, I would have stepped in.
That is my story. I hope it will make people stop making excuses for MJ. I don’t know what went wrong. It was believed by myself and others that MJ has the knowlegde to provide proper care…another reason why I suggested to her to get some counseling.
Perhaps those of us that believe in God will say a prayer for MJ…she is a Christian.
Lisa Brezina
Fly High Farm
Welsh and Sport Ponies
http://www.geocities.com/flyhighwelsh
Well, if you actually give a horse away, with no covenants, nothing much. If you do someone the favor of providing them a means to ride and own a horse (when they can’t afford to buy said horse) then you should probably also keep an eye on the horse to be sure the person can/will take care of it.
Typically the least expensive part of horses is the purchase price.
Typically people do not want to admit they’re in over their heads financially (look at at all the people who file bankruptcy in your daily paper).
Typcially people do not INTEND to harm their animals. It happens anyway, sometimes.
Ignorance is not uncommon. I’m not advocating tolerance here–I’m advocating education. We had a family put their horse on self care at the barn where I keep my horses this summer–they thought one flake of hay per day was sufficient, along with a quart of grain and a bucket of water. The horse had been on pasture board at its previous home and had done just fine on that feeding program. I put my nose where it didn’t belong and (somewhat tactfully, I hope) told them what their feeding program should be considering the horse was no longer getting nutrition from grass. They were grateful for the input and started feeding the poor thing.
My sister lives in Cataract, IN, by Cloverdale. I used to foxhunt in Spencer, IN with the New Britton Hunt. I do endurance races in various parts of southern Indiana. I do dressage shows and I event. I can tell you that by most of your standards there are a lot of ignored/ill-treated horses in the area. They might get wormed once a year, but maybe not. Many have no shelter. Many have a scummy pond for their water source. They have no pasture to speak of. Their feet have never seen a farrier. They get dragged out to be trail ridden 20 miles in Brown County in a single day with no fitness level what-so-ever. What are you going to do about it? Most of the horses are poor, not starving. What can you do about it? You can’t legistate that everyone keeps horses to your standards (even though I wish we could stipulate a minimum care standard). I would hazard a guess that the majority of horse owners do not provide the standard of care that most of us that read the Chronicle consider to be minimal. I have no statistics to back this up–just observations.
I do not think that bashing this girl, and making her even more ashamed of herself than she must be is going to help anything. Rather than berating the obvious, maybe we should all spread around a little of the education we’ve been so fortunate to aquire. Volunteer to work at the humane society, a pony club, or a girl scout badge on horse care. Find some positive way to spread useful information instead of being sanctimonious or judgemental–and if you see something like this happening for God’s sake STICK YOUR NOSE IN BEFORE IT GETS TOO BAD! It’s very easy to say mean or hurtful things when you don’t have to stand in front of someone and look into their eyes to say it…
Lee Ann
and the other poster many pages back (whom I can’t find)-who both posted links of MJ’s posts. I obviously was involved with my own horse’s illness and did not see them. I also have to admit that I was beginning to get really annoyed with her posts-the horse was young, yet she wanted to use draw reins? Ick. She badmouthed a vet, when there weren’t many around to help her…I also didn’t seek out her posts, so I had never read the ones about her home life. They are interesting, but considering how she twists and distorts the facts, one must wonder how to take them.
I am very fascinated by the posts regarding MBP-it sounds like this is a very likely explanation, somewhat rare I believe?? Does one ever get counseled beyond it? (as in cured)…
My question is what is she doing this summer that someone wondered about? Does she have like a working student job or something? Gosh, I wonder how much Touche wants to be involved, since she is there-this kid needs some seriuos help, and I must admit I worry bout the pony too. Just my early morning musings…
And as for closing the thread, I replied to that many pages ago-don’t read it if it upsets you. Many of us feel the need to hash things out for our own sanity-to try to understand this better.
Thanks, let me know what she was doing this summer…it’s a pity noone here really knows this kid…It doesn’t sound like Touche got a real great impression of the father. That’s too bad too.
“Wherever you go-there you are!”
well, thank y’all for the comments… i will probley go out tomarrow to the concert… and i know ill smile (or cry) when he sings certain songs b/c i woudl often listen to Kenny when working with Seger…
You know… i remember there were days when id be like “oh, its so cold out…” and even though i would always go id complaign about having to go outside and feed or clean stalls b/c it was cold… and now its all i can do to stop myself from going out and lying with him in the barn isle… i want to be with him, even if its just one last time… i want to feel his soft coat, and belvet muzzle… and i want to laugh at his very furry ears… i will always have so many things that were Seger’s such as his halter… but i would trade all of that for just one more chance to tell him i love him…
Musical_Jumper
“Event riders leave no ring unrode, no jump over turned, and no ditch filled in.”
“Your competition just got better today, did you…”
http://accopmanyme.tripod.com/tiffanyswebwonderland/ ~~ Come check out my site!!
This is a really sad story. 
I wish it could be broadcast to all of those people wanting to buy land so son/daughter could keep a pony. Horses are incredibly high maintenance - big bills, big time involved. They require commitment, not just from the owner, but from spouses and parents too. If you have never owned a horse or pony, you are not very likely to be ready to care for one out of your home. If you don’t have an extra $400-$500 a month to devote to the horse, lease one or take lessons.
I doubt MJ neglected Seger’s veterinary care out of cruelness, probably just ignorance and a lack of money. Sadly, that is never an excuse for anything. When we sign on to care for a dog, cat, pony, horse or child, we have an obligation to provide them what they need. Before we accept that responsiblity, we must look at all costs, time and money involved and choose if we are ready or not. I suppose that doesn’t happen often enough…
The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
ETBW - thank you.
LAZ - I have always been ready to say what I believe. In fact, I have quite the reputation for calling things exactly how they are. Anything I post on this board, I would address in person. My location is listed and many people know me by my full name.
This is just me…not something I gain pride from.
As to the call to become involved in the rescue of animals - how do you know that many of us are not already involved? Why do you think I am so frustrated in this situation? Because it is one rescue situation which was completely out of my control. Normally, I would be out there fighting for this horse’s life, but I couldn’t do anything this time. I have seen many horses suffer, I will do anything to stop it.
Kelly McAndrew
Dome, that is exactly the type of post we need to MOVE AWAY FROM on this thread.
M_J, i already emailed you privately, but just wanted to add to the poem and quote collection on here for you.
my grandfather is a vet, and possibly felt the most helpless of us all when i had to put my boy down. these words were in the sympathy card he sent… (i almsot had to skip a class after i opened it, i was crying so hard). i hope it’s some comfort.
“in their short lives, our pets give us all they can…their friendship, unselfish love, and total loyalty. there comes a time when we must give back to them… their freedom, their peace, and their dignity.” – anonymous
for explaining what happened. It just sounded too weird to me to put a horse down in those circumstances-if a horse is struggling, you get it out of it’s predicament. Now we know poor Segar was too weak to move, and probably in a tremendous amount of pain. God, how horrible his last two months of life must have been-I hope the authorities are pressing charges, as well as the owners who gifted the poor animnal. Tiffany needs some major help.
What I wonder is that “did noone else SEE this horse for the last two months?”. I am always on the lookout for abused and mistreated horses. I called last week when I saw a fully tacked up little horse tied to a barbed wire fence along a highway with a sign that said “white horse for sale”-the sheriff went and investigated. Call me nosy, but a horse’s demise is not going to be on my shoulders if I can help it.
I am dreadfully sorry that Touche had to witness that sad ending, my heart goes out to her. For MJ, all I feel is contempt. Nuff said.
I wasn’t going to reply to this subject, but now that the can’s been opened and the worms are everywhere (so to speak), I’ll post just once more. There’s nothing more, IMHO, to say about the way this poor animal died. It’s shocking, sickening, horrifying, and the mental picture brings tears to my eyes. I can’t even imagine being there personally.
Those of you defending her, and telling everyone to leave well enough alone, I must ask- what do you expect?! This is a board full of horse lovers and to find out that this horse died an agonizing and completely preventable death is outrageous. It’s the same response you’d expect if it was about child abuse. Both children and horses trust people to care for them, and breaking that trust is just unnacceptable. If the horse (or child!) dies as a result, it’s just… I hate to use this word, but unforgivable.
Moreso, I feel a little bit hurt by this whole thing. I’ve been nothing but supportive of Tiffany through the whole ordeal. I’ve IM’ed her, posted many times on the board, I’ve joined her in her rantings about her parents and I’ve offered advice. I fully believed every word she said because, I suppose, I’m used to everyone being completely open and truthful on these boards. To the point of believing every word. I can honestly say that every letter of every post I’ve typed on COTH- at least involving important situations- have been entirely truthful. So, I expect the same of everyone else. Suddenly that innocent trustworthy quality about this place is gone and along with everything else, I feel sort of betrayed. And even worse, I sat around giving pity while Seger was deteriorating. I know there’s nothing that I can do about it, but it’s awful just the same.
I do, however, hope that Tiffany gets the help she needs. Whatever kind of “help” it may be, the one thing I can’t believe is that ANYONE who is even halfway a horse lover would sit around and let one die the way poor Seger did.
At least, that’s what I hope.
Erin
~Stressed is Desserts written backwards…Concidence? I think not!~
For Touche if you’re still reading this thread
Have you spoken with MJ or her parents recently? I’m just wondering if her parents are aware of what really went on. Is MJ in denial or does she just not understand what she did?
Did you write at one point that her father told you to mind your own business? If so, it didn’t sound like he understood what had really happened and what MJ had done.
And Kryswyn, James T. Kirk was far from the first person to make this statement 
- Or as James T. Kirk said, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME.”
KAM…I’m right there also. This has disturbed me quite a lot. Something isnt “sitting right” with me…and while Its not my business, it still doesnt stop me from worrying about the horse. I AM sorry MJ lost her horse, but involving the board early-on then saying he was put down because he was too tired just makes me slightly (ok, NOT slightly) upset. I’m not trying to persecute, but I think the explanation is a bit ‘out there’.
If all we get to mull over is what we have, I’ll continue to pray that the horse didnt suffer and that he couldnt have been saved from whatever it was that make him be put down… 
Well CF, I am about to argue strenuously with you on that one.
For a horse to be in an emaciated state similar to those at the “knackers” are not horses who are merely hard keepers. These are horses who are on their way out.
I personally feel that Touche has put herself on the line in order to put an end to this tragic thread. Enough is enough, I agree. But, I feel we should be applauding Touche and not indicating she is “stirring the pot.”
I have a friend in the Toronto area who is a poster on this BB. She contacted someone in the U.S. within close proximity to Indiana and offered to pay for the transport of Seger to another facility. She, like Touche, I believe has a deep love and concern for those who can’t speak for themselves. Touche went on to tell us that the attending Veterinarian warned her about the condition Seger was in. My gut tells me Touche hasn’t slept too well over the past week. I know I couldn’t sleep last night.
As FW so eloquently stated, once we put a halter on those beasties, they are our responsibility. Period.
I respect fully the moderators’ position on this and I too hope that M_J gets the counselling she needs but I also hope this situation NEVER happens again.
I can only second what Heidi said.
We all can understand how you feel as we all feel sickened, angry, and betrayed…but also I know it’s been particularly hard for you since you were the ones defending her actions. Please don’t let it all change how you feel and participate - I, among many others, enjoy your contributions to these boards.
=^+^=
Ignore it… it will go away. 
M_J - my condolences to you in this trying time. Seger is in a very special place and will be there for you.
I am sorry for the harsh words everyone has said. They are not in your situation. Yes, each of us might have done something different, but remember it’s done and it was done in the only way it was intended to be done at the time.
Please remember that we can all look back on situations and think “What If?” You can do this to use as a learning tool for the future, which you already have done and will continue to do.
I know I do this with a lot of situations in my life.
Take care of yourself and your pony, who I am sure misses Seger, too.
Cass
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Fearfully, only time will tell, for it is all a leap of faith…
Life is not a spectator sport!
Smile…it makes people wonder what you have been doing 
Ditto, Heather.
